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1795 $1 - Fair price? - UPDATE: COUNTERFEIT
jclovescoins
Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭✭✭
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1795-Flowing-Hair-One-Dollar-Coin-1-Cleaned-VF-Details-No-Reserve-/131616682107?hash=item1ea4f7307b
Was 2275 a fair price for the buyer?
Was 2275 a fair price for the buyer?
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after a quick look, nothing about it screams fake to me. Others may differ however.
Was 2275 a fair price for the buyer?
Is it a fair price?
I guess both i***t( 12) and s***o( 692) thought so.
A problem free F12 can be bought for $4800
<< <i>Was 2275 a fair price for the buyer? >>
Depends on how it looks in hand. I would not pay that amount of money for a coin that has been tooled and cleaned, thought he cleaning does not look terrible. Are you the buyer or the seller?
<< <i>
<< <i>Was 2275 a fair price for the buyer? >>
Depends on how it looks in hand. I would not pay that amount of money for a coin that has been tooled and cleaned, thought he cleaning does not look terrible. Are you the buyer or the seller? >>
Where is the tooling? THe date? Gotta hand it to the seller for listing problems that are not obvious in the pics or to the uneducuated.
My Early Large Cents
PCGS just graded COUNTERFEIT. How do I get my money back?
That is a scary counterfeit. From the photos I would have said that it was genuine, and that the price paid, which was around the Gray Sheet price for a VG, was fair. You would be surprised how ugly a VG graded coin of this type can be.
The lesson to be learned here is that you really need look for certified coins when you are paying serious money, even for "details," "no grade" pieces.
PCGS just graded COUNTERFEIT. How do I get my money back?
Why not start by sending the seller an email through eBay and telling him what happened, and ask for a refund? If he doesn't respond after a few days, then you can file a SNAD with eBay. I like giving sellers the benefit of the doubt, so there's no reason to just start by opening a case. If he's legit, you'll get a reply and things will be worked out. If not, eBay will side with you. You have 60 days from the end of the auction to open a case, so there's no reason not to give the seller a chance to do the right thing on his own.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
many of these dollars can be a bit challenging. in-hand is probably easier.
numerous early dollars have made me squirm. (from images)
the edge on this may give it away. they are usually too crisp/sharp/smooth.
i'd like to see better images of this one, including the edge.
.
PCGS just graded COUNTERFEIT. How do I get my money back?
sorry to hear that you were the buyer.
BHNC #203
many of these dollars can be a bit challenging. in-hand is probably easier.
numerous early dollars have made me squirm. (from images)
the edge on this may give it away. they are usually too crisp/sharp/smooth.
i'd like to see better images of this one, including the edge.
.
Yes it probably is easier to spot in person. The people who sell these counterfeits over the Internet often post pictures that hide the problems. It would not surprise me if this piece contains no silver. The Chinese have gotten pretty good at "aging" the steel they use for their "Morgan Dollars."
PCGS just graded COUNTERFEIT. How do I get my money back?
Did they call out COUNTERFEIT specifically or did they state, "Questionable Authenticity" or similar?
Either way sorry to hear of your troubles.
Might be a contemporary counterfeit and if so, has value.
Most contemporary counterfeits were not that good.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Just my thought, don't want to upset anyone.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
That's over the limit I would spend on an eBay raw coin by about $1,500
As stated, contact the seller but keep your eye on the calendar so you don't lose your eBay coverage.
Thanks!
PCGS just graded COUNTERFEIT. How do I get my money back?
Why not start by sending the seller an email through eBay and telling him what happened, and ask for a refund? If he doesn't respond after a few days, then you can file a SNAD with eBay. I like giving sellers the benefit of the doubt, so there's no reason to just start by opening a case. If he's legit, you'll get a reply and things will be worked out. If not, eBay will side with you. You have 60 days from the end of the auction to open a case, so there's no reason not to give the seller a chance to do the right thing on his own.
I agree. Give the seller a chance to fix the problem and use the ebay system to contact him. Be nice. There is a good chance the seller did not know the coin was a problem.
PCGS just graded COUNTERFEIT. How do I get my money back?
Lets us know how the return, turns out ..
PCGS just graded COUNTERFEIT. How do I get my money back?
That is a scary counterfeit.
I'll say !!!
It may not end well if the seller has cleaned out his Paypal account.
PCGS just graded COUNTERFEIT. How do I get my money back?
That is a scary counterfeit.
I'll say !!!
It may not end well if the seller has cleaned out his Paypal account.
That's on PayPal/eBay if it comes to opening a case. HOWEVER, why must people assume the worst from the start? People make mistakes--at least give them a chance to fix them and be nice about it. IF the seller doesn't fix the problem, then eBay/PayPal will. But for crying out loud, why the rush to the worst case scenario (which isn't even that bad)?
i'd still like to see new pics and/or trueview.
also like the level-head approach to this issue.
whether the seller is a scammer, ignorant, unknowing etc, getting all excited solves much of nada.
.
Sorry for the situation you are in. Hope it resolves okay.
Just in case anyone is interested in the coin considered
a counterfeit, here is some information about what it is
pretending to be.
Unlike many of the phony pieces showing up this piece is
much more difficult to spot as it appears accurate and would
require in hand examination.
The die mariage used for this 1795 example is a B-1, BB-21.
The obverse die was used to strike 1795 BB-21, BB-22 & BB-23.
The obv. problem areas appear to be as follows;
* obv star points are too thin & some are short
* the hair looks to have been embellished & outlined
* the face appears to be looking too straight east, as
opposed to facing somewhat north-east
* the nose is too long
* the "9" is out of round & the lower part juts to the left
and is too open & leans a bit too much to the left
* the "5" is too open
The good points are the stars & letters are positioned
correctly & point to the correct dentils.
The date numerals are correctly spaced.
The "Y" is higher than the "T".
The spacing of the letters L, I. & B are correct.
The remnant of a "1" shows to the left of the upright of the seven.
The reverse die was used to strike BB-20, BB-21 & BB-24.
The strike appears to be accurate in the following;
* The berries are correct, having 19, with 9 left & 10 right
and they are in the correct positions
* The tail & wing feathers appear correct
* The leaf positions are as they should be & point to the
appropriate places
* There is a correct die crack from the lowest claw straight
south to the ribbon knot
The only possible flaw may be the position of the left single leaf
below S2 extending east of S2, but this may be the poor images
of the coin.
The condition of the surfaces are too hard to discern from the
images provided.
The rims & lettered edging are somewhat suspect as they
appear to be in too fine a condition for a coin this age, but it's
hard to say without closer examination.
It would have been nice if the PCGS reviewers had explained
what specifics led to their counterfeit conclusion so this could
be a learning experience.
R.I.P. Bear
It would have been nice if the PCGS reviewers had explained
what specifics led to their counterfeit conclusion so this could
be a learning experience.
Thanks for posting that excellent analysis.
The reason the graders don’t share WHY they consider it a counterfeit is in order to not help counterfeiters.
You can’t tell them “the nose is too long” or “the 5 is too open” because the next time they won’t be.
reason it is counterfeit. Perhaps weight?
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Scary thing is after looking at the seller's feedback, it looks like he sold another one of these 6 months ago and received positive feedback...seems to have a supply of them
Seller refunded you promptly when really- could have given you a difficult time after the period of time that's passed.
Please just move along and don't rain down a negative. Your 15 minutes of fame with this story is over.