They Don't Counterfeit Those - They Are Too Common - 1952 and 1958 cents - Both Counterfeits

MsMorrisine · December 7, 2013 8:39AM

1952 Cent
1958 Cent

keyman64 · December 7, 2013 8:41AM

Wow

MsMorrisine · December 7, 2013 8:42AM

Matte Finish Peace Dollar

MsMorrisine · December 7, 2013 8:44AM

for your amusement
1933 DE

Akbeez · December 7, 2013 8:48AM

Very disturbing. They have many rare dates as well, would be an easy pawn to the unsuspected.

And of course, from CHINA.

LanceNewmanOCC · December 7, 2013 8:52AM

<< 1952 Cent
1958 Cent

>>

the poster child images to show people and say, "if they are faking these, no holds barred!!!"
.

drwstr123 · December 7, 2013 8:59AM

Once the dies are mastered, it's easy to change the numbers...

windwhispersintrees · December 7, 2013 9:20AM

This is why the hobby is in trouble.
Wonder if the Secret Service is pursuing these types of "stores"?

SaorAlba · December 7, 2013 10:52AM

You cannot stop the people in China, they are off the radar - but you sure can investigate and pursue the people distributing them in the USA.

tincup · December 7, 2013 12:46PM

This cannot bode well for the hobby.

Zoins · December 7, 2013 1:23PM

<< This is why the hobby is in trouble. >>

<< This cannot bode well for the hobby. >>

nwcoast · December 7, 2013 3:13PM

<< 

<< This is why the hobby is in trouble. >>

<< This cannot bode well for the hobby. >>

>>

Very disturbing!!!!!

The single greatest threat to our hobby in my humble opinion.

Justlooking · December 7, 2013 3:50PM

<< 

<< 

<< This is why the hobby is in trouble. >>

<< This cannot bode well for the hobby. >>

>>

Very disturbing!!!!!

The single greatest threat to our hobby in my humble opinion. >>

Agree. Just look what happened with sports memorabilia.

nwcoast · December 7, 2013 3:59PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< This is why the hobby is in trouble. >>

<< This cannot bode well for the hobby. >>

>>

Very disturbing!!!!!

The single greatest threat to our hobby in my humble opinion. >>

Agree. Just look what happened with sports memorabilia. >>

And.... Antique collectable toys...... Yes, let's try not to get upset.......

dcarr · December 7, 2013 4:10PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< This is why the hobby is in trouble. >>

<< This cannot bode well for the hobby. >>

>>

Very disturbing!!!!!

The single greatest threat to our hobby in my humble opinion. >>

Agree. Just look what happened with sports memorabilia. >>

Celebrity (athlete) signatures and sports cards are easy to fake, and difficult to authenticate.
In contrast, coins are hard to fake well, and are relatively easy (for experts) to authenticate.

Sports memorabilia is rarely made of silver or gold.

The market for general sports memorabiliy took a downturn in the late 1990s due to a glut of new-issue material (sports cards).
But classic sports memorabilia is still worth good money if properly authenticated.

The high-quality counterfeits of US gold coins and other issues, which were produced in the 1960s, did not kill the rare coin market.
New counterfeits won't either.

nwcoast · December 7, 2013 4:23PM

Thanks for that ray of optimism and hope.
You have a much greater knowledge of the craft and artistry of coinage so I add weight to your opinion.
I'm not known for my optimism.... Thanks for the counterpoint!

Justlooking · December 7, 2013 4:36PM

Well, maybe the hobby isn't "in trouble" because of the fakes, but they sure are annoying. And most novice collectors don't go to an expert for authentication before buying a piece. Fake coins in fake holders are scary.

I've heard it said that 50 percent of all sports collectibles are fake. Isn't that awful?

ricko · December 7, 2013 10:22PM

Counterfeits in all pursuits are a danger, but hobbies will continue. I agree with dcarr though, coins are easier to detect when one takes the time to become skilled.... Cheers, RickO

Coinstudy · December 7, 2013 10:44PM

As the value of the collectable climbs so will climb the skill of the counterfieter . Allway's been there.

Icollecteverything · December 7, 2013 10:53PM

These look pretty easy to spot, mostly since they can't seem to get the date just right.

BillJones · December 7, 2013 11:17PM

One of the problems with this stuff is that it could be used to salt rolls of coins, if rolls ever become popular again. Put one of two real coins at the ends of the roll and fill the rest with this junk. Most buyers don't go through an entire roll, especially if there are 50 coins in it which is the case with the cents. "Shorting" rolls a coin or two has long been a problem. This is another wrinkle that could come into play.

I could see these things come into use for rolls of wheat cents. I know that there has to be flea market buyers out there who are buying them. Now they get the extra "bonus" of "BU Red" pieces instead of the usually brown, circulated pieces. The buyers should think of the old saying, "If it looks to too good to be true, it's probably isn't true."

djm · December 7, 2013 11:38PM

<< One of the problems with this stuff is that it could be used to salt rolls of coins, if rolls ever become popular again. Put one of two real coins at the ends of the roll and fill the rest with this junk. Most buyers don't go through an entire roll, especially if there are 50 coins in it which is the case with the cents. "Shorting" rolls a coin or two has long been a problem. This is another wrinkle that could come into play.

I could see these things come into use for rolls of wheat cents. I know that there has to be flea market buyers out there who are buying them. Now they get the extra "bonus" of "BU Red" pieces instead of the usually brown, circulated pieces. The buyers should think of the old saying, "If it looks to too good to be true, it's probably isn't true." >>

Nobody in there right mind would ever do this. The fake coins are $2.50 each Red Book for the coins in MS-63 is $1 for the 1952 and $0.30 the 1958. It's cheaper to use real coins.

I don't know why everybody is so upset about counterfiet coins, they never hurt anyone. Somebody gets taken for a few buck no big deal. The real outrage should be over counterfiet automobile parts where people have actually been injured and killed. Think about it you are driving on the Interstate and the $8 ball joint your mechanic put in your car instead of the $50 dollar genuine part you paid for breaks what's going to happen??

AMRC · December 7, 2013 11:43PM

This stuff is as comical as it is debasing.

BillJones · December 8, 2013 12:12AM

<< I don't know why everybody is so upset about counterfiet coins, they never hurt anyone >>

I guess you have not been in the hobby for very long. Counterfeit coins have done great damage to the hobby over the years, and it's worse now because the Chinese can practice their trade with no sanctions from their government.

You also should look at the times in history when governments have used counterfeit coins and paper money to undermine the economy of their enemies. I agree that counterfeit auto parts are a problem, but don't underestimate the power of the bogus money to undermine our hobby and the economy. If was not a big deal, governments would not make counterfeiting a crime that can result in long prison sentences. Back in colonial times governments printed "To counterfeit is death," and they weren't kidding.

CaptHenway · December 8, 2013 12:23AM

<< 

<< One of the problems with this stuff is that it could be used to salt rolls of coins, if rolls ever become popular again. Put one of two real coins at the ends of the roll and fill the rest with this junk. Most buyers don't go through an entire roll, especially if there are 50 coins in it which is the case with the cents. "Shorting" rolls a coin or two has long been a problem. This is another wrinkle that could come into play.

I could see these things come into use for rolls of wheat cents. I know that there has to be flea market buyers out there who are buying them. Now they get the extra "bonus" of "BU Red" pieces instead of the usually brown, circulated pieces. The buyers should think of the old saying, "If it looks to too good to be true, it's probably isn't true." >>

Nobody in there right mind would ever do this. The fake coins are $2.50 each Red Book for the coins in MS-63 is $1 for the 1952 and $0.30 the 1958. It's cheaper to use real coins.

I don't know why everybody is so upset about counterfiet coins, they never hurt anyone. Somebody gets taken for a few buck no big deal. The real outrage should be over counterfiet automobile parts where people have actually been injured and killed. Think about it you are driving on the Interstate and the $8 ball joint your mechanic put in your car instead of the $50 dollar genuine part you paid for breaks what's going to happen?? >>

There are many kinds of hurt. Many people have been hurt economically by counterfeit coins. Not maimed or killed by them as in your perfectly apt example of counterfeit auto parts, but hurt nevertheless.

Nickcap · December 8, 2013 1:20AM

<< 

Nobody in there right mind would ever do this. The fake coins are $2.50 each Red Book for the coins in MS-63 is $1 for the 1952 and $0.30 the 1958. It's cheaper to use real coins.

I don't know why everybody is so upset about counterfiet coins, they never hurt anyone. Somebody gets taken for a few buck no big deal. The real outrage should be over counterfiet automobile parts where people have actually been injured and killed. Think about it you are driving on the Interstate and the $8 ball joint your mechanic put in your car instead of the $50 dollar genuine part you paid for breaks what's going to happen?? >>

Interesting comments on a coin forum.

rec78 · December 8, 2013 1:57AM

<< One of the problems with this stuff is that it could be used to salt rolls of coins, if rolls ever become popular again. Put one of two real coins at the ends of the roll and fill the rest with this junk. Most buyers don't go through an entire roll, especially if there are 50 coins in it which is the case with the cents. "Shorting" rolls a coin or two has long been a problem. This is another wrinkle that could come into play.

I could see these things come into use for rolls of wheat cents. I know that there has to be flea market buyers out there who are buying them. Now they get the extra "bonus" of "BU Red" pieces instead of the usually brown, circulated pieces. The buyers should think of the old saying, "If it looks to too good to be true, it's probably isn't true." >>

Imagine how many of these will be on ebay and on the end of newly homemade "unsearched rolls", showing a rare coin. They can present quite a problem and may be almost impossible to detect if you cannot see the whole coin.

OUR ADVANTAGE: we are a factory making great variety of world coins for generations, we can make very fine coins, including gold coins, silver coins, copper coins, zinc coins etc. We also accept custom made.

Bob

Nickcap · December 8, 2013 10:18AM

Look at his feedback. ..

shipped and arrived quickly. Product looks nice although the weight is less than half of the real thing.Eric D. 06 Sep 2013

from USA

Nickcap · December 8, 2013 10:20AM

This guy from the US has about 20 purchases and feedback left.

The order is received. Everything is fine, thank you. Mikhail B. 05 Nov 2013

LanceNewmanOCC · August 17, 2015 3:48AM

<< 1952 Cent
1958 Cent

>>

gawd, i love seeing posts like this.

just kills me to see/hear people say, "oh, they don't counterfeit low-dollar items."

then comes along someone whose head isnt in the sand and with one little 'ol post, blows 'em outta the water.

has given me more than just a little entertainment. ty Ms.

i need a tshirt to wear at shows with a pic like this with a caption, "crime/evil knows no bounds, wake up!"

im not joking about the shirt. i'd even post a pic of me wearing it at shows.

.

Coupdescrounge · August 17, 2015 4:15AM

A cent probably is not cost effective to produce, even scaled up to US mint numbers. I hear it costs more than a cent to produce.

But the higher denominations, especially the quarter, I've wondered if they could be produced not with the intention of fooling the collectors or analyzers of the world, but enough to pass through general commerce.
Dcarr, you mentioned the difficulty of producing but it seems with this modus in mind for cashing in, it would be much lower bar. Basically weight and dimensions and they would at least run vending machines?

Does anyone know if the fake quarters an Ali and other places if they will run through vending?

asheland · August 17, 2015 4:38AM

Interesting thread indeed!

johnny9434 · August 17, 2015 4:59AM

how disturbing

Twobitcollector · August 17, 2015 5:26AM

Flatwoods · August 17, 2015 9:38AM

Those Maine commems would be an easy sell on Ebay.
Makes you wonder just how much is out there.
No doubt there will be much more in a few months.

RedTiger · August 17, 2015 11:19AM

Some will put them in album sets or other holders to avoid the weight issue. Common dates often get just a glance. Have mostly real coins in the set, with a few fake common dates to juice up the profit margins. Another way to pass them might be to place them in 2x2s in a binder or box. Low value raw coins usually won't get close scrutiny. Just because this particular seller is making relatively low quality fakes in terms of quality and weight doesn't mean that others are doing the same. Getting the weight close, and basic diagnostics right to fool the average collector, average small time dealer isn't that hard. Many collectors and dealers are still whistling about the smallness of the problem.

Another way to make decent money might be to fake a wide variety of relatively common 19th century foreign coins. Put them in 2x2s and let the collectors buy them up at retail prices. Virtually no one at a small coin show will have the expertise to authenticate foreign minors. Any expert that does, probably wouldn't get involved unless asked, and that would be unlikely. The prevailing theory that $5 to $50 value raw coins aren't worth faking still holds sway in most of the hobby. Again, the smart thing might be to stock mostly real coins, then add maybe 10% or 20% fakes. Plan to cheerfully give out a refund on the extremely rare occasion that they get caught by an expert. Having mostly real coins avoids the embarrassment of an expert going through and finding all fakes. This plan adds 10% to 20% of the bottom line in a hobby with thin margins, without much risk, without much stress and a lot of easy rationalizations by the scumbag(s).

dcarr · August 17, 2015 11:31AM

<< A cent probably is not cost effective to produce, even scaled up to US mint numbers. I hear it costs more than a cent to produce.

But the higher denominations, especially the quarter, I've wondered if they could be produced not with the intention of fooling the collectors or analyzers of the world, but enough to pass through general commerce.
Dcarr, you mentioned the difficulty of producing but it seems with this modus in mind for cashing in, it would be much lower bar. Basically weight and dimensions and they would at least run vending machines?

Does anyone know if the fake quarters an Ali and other places if they will run through vending? >>

It is estimated that 2% of the British one-pound coins in circulation are counterfeit. At about $1.50 face value per coin, that is a somewhat attractive target for counterfeiters in quantity.
Counterfeiters thinking of making US copper-nickel clad "sandwich" coins have additional technical challenges to overcome, and a lower face value per coin.

As to what will work in a vending machine, a blank disk will work so long as it has the correct diameter, thickness, weight, and electromagnetic "signature".

roadrunner · August 17, 2015 12:01PM

When the Chinese counterfeiters decide to build a 19th or 20th century US mint-type facility then we'll be in trouble. The cost outlay would probably be in the tens of $MILLIONs, maybe hundreds of $MILLIONs. But until their fakes are replete with die polish, die cracks, specific mint luster patterns, typical bag marks, typical color, typical toning, typical strike weaknesses by date, etc. then there's not a lot to be worried about for the US coin market. I suspect going after the low hanging fruit at low cost inputs is where they are now. Will it ever be worth the money to try and copy an 1824 capped bust half or 1924-s $20 Saint dies and start popping out MS63 to MS65 coins? It's not like they won't start drawing someone's attention within a few days or weeks of their appearance. Seems like a good thing that they are faking common date BU wheat cents. Better that than something important.

CaptHenway · August 17, 2015 10:53PM

<< 

<< A cent probably is not cost effective to produce, even scaled up to US mint numbers. I hear it costs more than a cent to produce.

But the higher denominations, especially the quarter, I've wondered if they could be produced not with the intention of fooling the collectors or analyzers of the world, but enough to pass through general commerce.
Dcarr, you mentioned the difficulty of producing but it seems with this modus in mind for cashing in, it would be much lower bar. Basically weight and dimensions and they would at least run vending machines?

Does anyone know if the fake quarters an Ali and other places if they will run through vending? >>

It is estimated that 2% of the British one-pound coins in circulation are counterfeit. At about $1.50 face value per coin, that is a somewhat attractive target for counterfeiters in quantity.
Counterfeiters thinking of making US copper-nickel clad "sandwich" coins have additional technical challenges to overcome, and a lower face value per coin.

As to what will work in a vending machine, a blank disk will work so long as it has the correct diameter, thickness, weight, and electromagnetic "signature". >>

When I was working at Coin World back in the '70's we suddenly got lots of reports of quarter-sized copper slugs with reeded edges that people were finding in rolls up and down the East Coast. They were correct weight and diameter, though a little thin since there was no relief. I suspect that they passed through vending machines and got rolled along with the rest of the change.

mr1931S · August 18, 2015 12:33AM

Your '33 double eagle can be custom-made and is available in 90% gold,10% copper-33.4 grams-34mm.

The piece shown "looks funny" (the date is too bold for one thing) to me but the specifications seen above are the same as for an authentic St. Gaudens $20 piece.I wonder if they could do my piece in 90% gold with "COPY!" coming out of lady Liberty's mouth.

mr1931S · August 18, 2015 12:48AM

LanceNewmanOCC:
gawd, i love seeing posts like this.

The 1952 and 1958 pennies are practice pieces?

Gosh we never have figured out if the 1959-D wheat back cent is genuine.There's only one been found so it is suspected as "fake" (made outside the Mint) for that reason alone.To this day,no one knows for certain if the 1959-D mule cent is an authentic Mint product or not.

There might be serious money for the counterfeiter in making another 1958 DDO (3 known). Buy one of these without authentication and you are just asking to be cheated.

Baley · August 18, 2015 2:45AM

The coin market is flooded with recently produced fake stuff, but, hey, "collect what you like", some of this new fake stuff has loyal followers who appreciate the artistry and high condition of the counterfeits.

crazyhounddog · August 18, 2015 4:36AM

<< 

<< 1952 Cent
1958 Cent

>>

the poster child images to show people and say, "if they are faking these, no holds barred!!!"
. >>

Very disturbing to say the least.

luckybucks · August 18, 2015 5:38AM

The 1958 date is too thin / does not look just right.

Between this and the counterfeit certification holders, this is a big black eye for the hobby.

They Don't Counterfeit Those - They Are Too Common - 1952 and 1958 cents - Both Counterfeits

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