Rare Spotless Silver Eagle??? Mac Thinks So

GForce1 · July 7, 2015 4:27AM

Link to Coin

I'm confused. I thought the MAC sticker was only for high quality coins.

Is the spotting evident on this coin acceptable for a 69? Listing says it is Spotless, but you can you readily see spots all over the coin.

mercurydimeguy · July 7, 2015 4:37AM

If the Ad says it's spotless then it must be spotless, our eyes must be wrong and the spots must be something else yellow and on the surface, but certainly not spots

Bochiman · July 7, 2015 4:42AM

Look at the asking price (even after the "discount") for the coin...and compare to better looking examples WITHOUT that sticker. I know where I would spend MY money.....

LindeDad · July 7, 2015 4:48AM

Yeah it is in a rare case one finds that date totally spotless.

johnny9434 · July 7, 2015 5:18AM

just what we need, more stickers. just saying

asheland · July 7, 2015 6:59AM

What a super deal!

MACGE1 · July 7, 2015 7:18AM

Thos coin was stickered approximately 9 months ago, when it was spotless.

After stickering coins in all kinds of holders from both services, we have determined which holders cause the coins to spot and which ones don't. Therefore, we will only sticker coins in holders that meet our requirements. We also have a buyback guarantee for any coins that we have already stickered for coins that are in holders that don't meet our requirements.

TopographicOceans · July 7, 2015 7:32AM

<< Thos coin was stickered approximately 9 months ago, when it was spotless.

After stickering coins in all kinds of holders from both services, we have determined which holders cause the coins to spot and which ones don't. Therefore, we will only sticker coins in holders that meet our requirements. We also have a buyback guarantee for any coins that we have already stickered for coins that are in holders that don't meet our requirements. >>

So was this coin a holder that you have determined to cause spots and you stickered it anyway, or was it in a holder you have determined to not cause spots and that your assumption you can predict spotting flawed?

oih82w8 · July 7, 2015 7:34AM

Too late...seller took it down...for one reason or another.

MACGE1 · July 7, 2015 7:45AM

<< 

<< Thos coin was stickered approximately 9 months ago, when it was spotless.

After stickering coins in all kinds of holders from both services, we have determined which holders cause the coins to spot and which ones don't. Therefore, we will only sticker coins in holders that meet our requirements. We also have a buyback guarantee for any coins that we have already stickered for coins that are in holders that don't meet our requirements. >>

So was this coin a holder that you have determined to cause spots and you stickered it anyway, or was it in a holder you have determined to not cause spots and that your assumption you can predict spotting flawed? >>

We will not sticker any more coins that are in this holder, as we gave determined that that may spot.

This coin (among many) was stickered while we were doing our research to figure out which ones we will sticker and which ones we won't. This is why we will buy back any coins that we stickered during this period that have spotted.

MACGE1 · July 7, 2015 7:47AM

<< Too late...seller took it down...for one reason or another. >>

We purchased this coin along with all the other coins this particular dealer had that had spotted.

barrytrot · July 7, 2015 8:03AM

MACGE1, may I recommend that you fix your avatar. You lose a lot of credibility when your avatar is a broken image.

derryb · July 7, 2015 8:07AM

<< Thos coin was stickered approximately 9 months ago, when it was spotless.

After stickering coins in all kinds of holders from both services, we have determined which holders cause the coins to spot and which ones don't. Therefore, we will only sticker coins in holders that meet our requirements. We also have a buyback guarantee for any coins that we have already stickered for coins that are in holders that don't meet our requirements. >>

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but holder has nothing to do with silver eagle spotting. They even spot in the refrigerator.

GForce1 · July 7, 2015 8:09AM

Now I am really confused. Here is a link to another MAC stickered ASE in an NGC holder that has spots. Here's a link to a 1995 ASE "Spotless"

And another 1996 ASE NGC "Spotless"

Given all the spotted "Spotless" Eagles could you please help me understand the specifics of your buy back policy.

derryb · July 7, 2015 8:21AM

Is this a self-sticker operation where you sticker and then you sell?

MACGE1 · July 7, 2015 8:27AM

<< Now I am really confused. Here is a link to another MAC stickered ASE in an NGC holder that has spots. Here's a link to a 1995 ASE "Spotless"

And another 1996 ASE NGC "Spotless"

Given all the spotted "Spotless" Eagles could you please help me understand the specifics of your buy back policy. >>

Please take a closer look at the 1995, those "spots" are reflections from the picture. This is clearly evident by the 2and set of pictures where the "spots" magically disappear. Same thing with the 1996.

GForce1 · July 7, 2015 8:39AM

I am even more confused. You have 2 different coin images with different certificate numbers in the listing which is why the "spots" disappeared. The didn't on the first of the two 1995 coins.

And, you never responded to my questions about the specifics of your buy back policy.

MACGE1 · July 7, 2015 8:49AM

<< I am even more confused. You have 2 different coin images with different certificate numbers in the listing which is why the "spots" disappeared. The didn't on the first of the two 1995 coins.

And, you never responded to my questions about the specifics of your buy back policy. >>

You are correct about the two different serial numbers. I contacted that seller and he will retake the pictures, those are shadows and not spots.

The buy back program is for ASE's that we stickered before our research was completed to determine which holders we sticker and which ones we don't. Any coins that are in holders that we don't do anymore are included in this program.

MACGE1 · July 7, 2015 8:52AM

<< Is this a self-sticker operation where you sticker and then you sell? >>

No, the stickering takes place in Florida, and the wholesale trade takes place in New York.
They're each run by two different sets of people, and backed by two different groups of investors so there's no conflict.

derryb · July 7, 2015 9:12AM

<< 

<< Is this a self-sticker operation where you sticker and then you sell? >>

No, the stickering takes place in Florida, and the wholesale trade takes place in New York.
They're each run by two different sets of people, and backed by two different groups of investors so there's no conflict. >>

Two groups of investors doesn't eliminate conflict if any parties (management, employees) of either operation have a relationship in any way with both entities. Does such a relationship exist in any way? Reason for my intrigue is that total independence is paramount to maintaining a sound reputation.

Ebay seller macabletrading currently has 923 of these MAC stickered coins for sale Strongly appears that this seller is associated with whoever is applying the stickers. If so, then it basically amounts to "self stickering."

PRECIOUSMENTAL · July 7, 2015 10:37AM

So, the coin in the original post, was labeled as 'First Strike', meaning it would have been graded and sealed in early 1999?
Correct?
What phenomenon would have caused spotting in the past 9 months?
(You posted that it was 'stickered' 9 months ago, and it was spotless then)
It was okay for over 15 years prior, since you would not have 'stickered' it with visible spots.
I too, am confused.

Rampage · July 7, 2015 10:52AM

The eBay ID history for macabletrading indicates ah-collectibles, which was only one of Alan Hager's eBay IDs back in the early 2000s. Considering the name MACabletrading...and the MAC stickers, it seems to me that the two companies are run by the same entity...Alan Hager.

Rampage · July 7, 2015 10:54AM

<< 

<< Is this a self-sticker operation where you sticker and then you sell? >>

No, the stickering takes place in Florida, and the wholesale trade takes place in New York.
They're each run by two different sets of people, and backed by two different groups of investors so there's no conflict. >>

Really? Can you provide information on these entities?

GForce1 · July 7, 2015 10:54AM

Let me get this right. The first coin I highlighted with spots and described as Spotless was a PCGS-graded Silver Eagle which was immediately taken down from eBay. A MAC stickered coin listed on eBay, 1996 ASE graded NGC MS69 Cert # 3972761-023, is another coin described as "Spotless" and clearly has a big honking spot on Liberty's lower skirt. Link

Given that you supposedly did "research" to figure out which grading service holders tend to create spots, and that both NGC and PCGS holdered coins appear to have spotted after you stickered them, which grading service has holders in which ASEs don't spot? ANACS?

MACGE1 · July 7, 2015 11:02AM

<< So, the coin in the original post, was labeled as 'First Strike', meaning it would have been graded and sealed in early 1999?
Correct?
What phenomenon would have caused spotting in the past 9 months?
(You posted that it was 'stickered' 9 months ago, and it was spotless then)
It was okay for over 15 years prior, since you would not have 'stickered' it with visible spots.
I too, am confused. >>

That's incorrect, PCGS will certify a coin as "first strike" as long as it's sealed in the OGP and it's first strike eligible. That coin could have been graded 5 years or 5 days before it was submitted to us.

MACGE1 · July 7, 2015 11:04AM

<< Let me get this right. The first coin I highlighted with spots and described as Spotless was a PCGS-graded Silver Eagle which was immediately taken down from eBay. A MAC stickered coin listed on eBay, 1996 ASE graded NGC MS69 Cert # 3972761-023, is another coin described as "Spotless" and clearly has a big honking spot on Liberty's lower skirt. Link

Given that you supposedly did "research" to figure out which grading service holders tend to create spots, and that both NGC and PCGS holdered coins appear to have spotted after you stickered them, which grading service has holders in which ASEs don't spot? ANACS? >>

The coin in the link that you provided doesn't have spots.

david3142 · July 7, 2015 11:06AM

There is a spot below the W and a big ring at the bottom of her skirt above the date.

TopographicOceans · July 7, 2015 11:16AM

Y'all are confusing who put the sticker on what coin and when they did it, with the mac sticker itself.

When a potential buyer sees a mac sticker, they know that it has been mac'd and can bid accordingly with their belief of what the mac sticker implies.

That's what mac'ing is all about.

Justacommeman · July 7, 2015 11:20AM

<< Y'all are confusing who put the sticker on what coin and when they did it, with the mac sticker itself.

When a potential buyer sees a mac sticker, they know that it has been mac'd and can bid accordingly with their belief of what the mac sticker implies.

That's what mac'ing is all about. >>

That's mac'd up

mark

lcoopie · July 7, 2015 11:22AM

MAC has no meaning I am aware of

Rampage · July 7, 2015 11:29AM

MAC is dodging my post pointing out that he is the seller of those coins.

GForce1 · July 7, 2015 12:31PM

First, there were two different coins in the listing for the 1995 ASE in MS69 Spotless. After my posting the first of the two coins, the one with spots, was removed from the listing leaving the other coin which doesn't have visible spots.

Second, the 1996 ASE which you claim does not have spots does indeed have spots. Readers of this thread can go to the coin (which also has been delisted since I pointed out the problem) and click on the image of the ended coin and you will see the full coin image. There are two spots, a large one on Liberty's skirt above the 96 and another on the right edge of her skirt. Link to Ended Spotted 1996 ASE

Third, the first "Spotless" coin I point out has having spots was also "ended" shortly after this thread started. Link to 1996 ASE with Spots

Its turning into a game of hide and seek.

PRECIOUSMENTAL · July 7, 2015 12:49PM

<< 

<< So, the coin in the original post, was labeled as 'First Strike', meaning it would have been graded and sealed in early 1999?
Correct?
What phenomenon would have caused spotting in the past 9 months?
(You posted that it was 'stickered' 9 months ago, and it was spotless then)
It was okay for over 15 years prior, since you would not have 'stickered' it with visible spots.
I too, am confused. >>

That's incorrect, PCGS will certify a coin as "first strike" as long as it's sealed in the OGP and it's first strike eligible. That coin could have been graded 5 years or 5 days before it was submitted to us. >>

I don't think anyone would wait that many years to submit a First Strike Designation; However, the coin developed spots during the nine months after you applied your sticker, Correct?

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · July 7, 2015 12:53PM

<< 

<< 

<< Thos coin was stickered approximately 9 months ago, when it was spotless.

After stickering coins in all kinds of holders from both services, we have determined which holders cause the coins to spot and which ones don't. Therefore, we will only sticker coins in holders that meet our requirements. We also have a buyback guarantee for any coins that we have already stickered for coins that are in holders that don't meet our requirements. >>

So was this coin a holder that you have determined to cause spots and you stickered it anyway, or was it in a holder you have determined to not cause spots and that your assumption you can predict spotting flawed? >>

We will not sticker any more coins that are in this holder, as we gave determined that that may spot.

This coin (among many) was stickered while we were doing our research to figure out which ones we will sticker and which ones we won't. This is why we will buy back any coins that we stickered during this period that have spotted. >>

...shoot first and aim later...Nice Work

derryb · July 7, 2015 1:24PM

So I can go to the MAC website where I can submit coins for a MAC sticker or I can outright buy MAC stickered coins. Sure looks like self stickering to me.

If PCGS or NGC sold the coins they graded how independent would their grading be?

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · July 7, 2015 1:44PM

<< MAC is dodging my post pointing out that he is the seller of those coins. >>

...I try and never pile on anyone here at the CU forum...I know many people here are scared of dude suing people like he has in the past for talking out loud, but seriously....WTH is going on here???...this thing stinks to high hell

Edit to add....so dudes research is essentially claiming that TPG's (including PCGS) are to blame for spotting on ASE's???? Now that sounds like something actionable

Boosibri · July 7, 2015 5:40PM

<< So I can go to the MAC website where I can submit coins for a MAC sticker or I can outright buy MAC stickered coins. Sure looks like self stickering to me.

If PCGS or NGC sold the coins they graded how independent would their grading be? >>

How is the MAC model different from the CAC business model, stickering and making a market in the stickered coins? The sustainability of the model requires trust in the high and constant standard of grading inherent in the certification. The model is actually strengthen I think by the fact that they will make a market in the coins which they sticker rather than weaken by a lack of independence between stickering and market making. It is clear from the self-slabbing operatings that if the standards are sub-par the rest of the business model falls apart.

19Lyds · July 7, 2015 6:07PM

$218 for a $60 coin is really, really reaching. Sticker or no sticker.

Put them all up for open bidding starting at Melt value. That'll define the value for a MAC Sticker.

ricko · July 7, 2015 10:33PM

After a thorough study of this thread, I conclude that there are several unanswered questions that should be addressed by MAC. I look forward to the responses. Cheers, RickO

grip · July 7, 2015 11:07PM

Special...Big Mac with fries

derryb · July 8, 2015 12:05AM

<< 

<< So I can go to the MAC website where I can submit coins for a MAC sticker or I can outright buy MAC stickered coins. Sure looks like self stickering to me.

If PCGS or NGC sold the coins they graded how independent would their grading be? >>

How is the MAC model different from the CAC business model, stickering and making a market in the stickered coins? >>

CAC does not sell the coins that they sticker. No conflict of interest in applying a sticker. How would if appear if PCGS sold coins that they grade?

Boosibri · July 8, 2015 12:08AM

<< 

<< 

<< So I can go to the MAC website where I can submit coins for a MAC sticker or I can outright buy MAC stickered coins. Sure looks like self stickering to me.

If PCGS or NGC sold the coins they graded how independent would their grading be? >>

How is the MAC model different from the CAC business model, stickering and making a market in the stickered coins? >>

CAC does not sell the coins that they sticker. No conflict of interest in applying a sticker. How would if appear if PCGS sold coins that they grade? >>

Not true. They make a market in CAC stickered coins.

asheland · July 8, 2015 12:09AM

<< Too late...seller took it down...for one reason or another. >>

Probably because it was a RIP-OFF!

asheland · July 8, 2015 12:33AM

<< MAC has no meaning I am aware of >>

I like the computers.

cameonut2011 · July 8, 2015 12:44AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< So I can go to the MAC website where I can submit coins for a MAC sticker or I can outright buy MAC stickered coins. Sure looks like self stickering to me.

If PCGS or NGC sold the coins they graded how independent would their grading be? >>

How is the MAC model different from the CAC business model, stickering and making a market in the stickered coins? >>

CAC does not sell the coins that they sticker. No conflict of interest in applying a sticker. How would if appear if PCGS sold coins that they grade? >>

Not true. They make a market in CAC stickered coins. >>

You are missing a key distinction. CAC does not buy non CAC stickered coins cheaply at non-CAC prices, sticker them, and then flip them for obscene profits. Rather others submit the coins and CAC later buys the coins already stickered. At the time the grading opinion is given and the piece stickered, CAC has no financial interest in the piece and therefore, there is no conflict or potential conflict of interest.

Does MAC do this?

cameonut2011 · July 8, 2015 12:48AM

<< 

<< 

<< Is this a self-sticker operation where you sticker and then you sell? >>

No, the stickering takes place in Florida, and the wholesale trade takes place in New York.
They're each run by two different sets of people, and backed by two different groups of investors so there's no conflict. >>

Really? Can you provide information on these entities? >>

This is an excellent question that MAC seems to be ignoring for some reason.

derryb · July 8, 2015 12:55AM

Being a "market maker" is not a conflict of interest. It is the sign of a successful business. Using the guise of an "independent" opinion to sell something that is not "independently" valued/appraised is a conflict of interest.

Boosibri · July 8, 2015 12:57AM

<< Being a "market maker" is not a conflict of interest. It is the sign of a successful business. Using the guise of an "independent" opinion to sell something that is not "independently" valued/appraised is a conflict of interest. >>

...but they do sell coins that they sticker. Either way, it is successful. Enough from me on the topic.

bestday · July 8, 2015 1:14AM

<< Look at the asking price (even after the "discount") for the coin...and compare to better looking examples WITHOUT that sticker. I know where I would spend MY money..... >>

those 1999 Eagle coins are generously priced at $32 ?????

grip · July 8, 2015 8:21AM

<< 

<< MAC has no meaning I am aware of >>

I like the computers.

>>

Yup: and I like there burgers

Bochiman · July 8, 2015 8:41AM

<< 

<< Look at the asking price (even after the "discount") for the coin...and compare to better looking examples WITHOUT that sticker. I know where I would spend MY money..... >>

those 1999 Eagle coins are generously priced at $32 ????? >>

Do you mean the ones instead of the one that was listed? Yeah...would rather get one of those than the $225 (after discount) that was originally listed.....

Rare Spotless Silver Eagle??? Mac Thinks So

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