Does 'raw' mean 'circulated'? BST gone bad...seller 'SILVERPOP'

NotSure · July 1, 2015 2:35AM

Having a problem with a BST transaction, but before I place blame on the seller, I'm wondering what you all think? Seller posted a BST FS thread, of 6 raw Roosies. Seller posts an image of an UNC '62 Roosie, no other images of the other 5 coins (seller conveniently deletes everything from the thread). I message the seller, my first message to him, and specifically state, and I quote, "If the other 5 coins are in the same condition as the '62 you have imaged, then the need to get them for the Dansco....". In another message to the seller, I stated this, "Give me a heads-up when you get it (meaning my payment), and I look forward to putting some NICE unc Roosies in my Dansco."

Now, if you're the seller, and were to read this, and you KNOW the other 5 coins are NOT in the same condition as the one imaged and posted in the offering, and it is quite obvious that the buyer is looking for 6 UNCs, do you have an obligation to tell the potential buyer, who spelled out twice that he was looking for UNCs, that the other 5 coins you did NOT have imaged, are NOT in the same condition, they are NOT UNC?? Do you just send the one unc coin you imaged, and 5 circulated coins?

After receiving the package (no tracking), and seeing pocket change, I message the seller and ask if this is a joke, did he send the wrong package, and that I'd like to return them, as the other 5 are circulated. The seller's response.....

"what do you think RAW MEANS? ever heard of the PM function you should of sent me a PM before buying but no you just thought they were UNC, wild guess RAW most likely means they have seen use NO RETURNS A DEAL IS A DEAL I bought these RAW from a coin shop whatever the issue is not my problem
next time if you want UNC buy slabbed coins"

DOES 'raw' "most likely mean they have seen use"??? His statement that I did not ask is a crock....while it wasn't in the form of a question, I specifically stated "as long as they look like the '62 (the only one of the 6 he imaged). Is the seller obligated to tell me the rest of the 6 are circulated? While I did NOT put it in the form of a question, I believe I made it clear what I was looking for. I WASN'T expecting MS67 coins, but WAS looking for nice, unc album coins, like the coin he posted.

OK, that's the whole story....the seller CANNOT deny I messaged him twice, stating I was looking for 6 uncs. Who is at fault? Am I because I never ASKED, but made a statement saying what I was looking for, that I just 'thought' they were unc? Were my messages clear enough that the seller should have come clean?? OR, Is the seller at fault, for seeing my messages, KNOWING I was looking for uncs for my Dansco, and not disclosing 5 were circulated???

All this over a $7 sale....but, I believe I made it clear what I was looking for. Am I at fault, or is the seller just wrong????

MsMorrisine · July 1, 2015 2:43AM

Raw - not in a company holder

It has nothing to do with wear

DaveWcoins · July 1, 2015 2:43AM

You appear to be right.

But it is $7, not $7000.

Make a note to yourself about the seller for future reference, take a deep breath of fresh air, be glad that you are alive and that you live in this great country, and put it out of your mind.

Life is too short to get yourself upset over these things.

keets · July 1, 2015 2:44AM

I would not have sent money for uncs until I received a message from the seller telling me they were uncs. this is the second transaction thread in the last week or two where confusion comes from either bad communication, assumption or lack of really knowing what is being sold.

OperationButter · July 1, 2015 2:45AM

pm sent

TopographicOceans · July 1, 2015 2:47AM

RAW means not certified in a slab.

A coin in any condition can be raw.

david3142 · July 1, 2015 2:50AM

I agree that the seller is in the wrong here, although I also think you rushed to send payment. More importantly, the tone of the seller's message seems to indicate that this is not a person with whom I would like to do business.
All that said, the melt value of these coins is $6.78 so at least you can rest easy there.

topstuf · July 1, 2015 2:54AM

CLARITY IS PARAMOUNT!

Buying coins requires a lot of bridges to cross before payment is made.

ricko · July 1, 2015 2:57AM

Technically, you are correct. The seller, however, should not have been so obnoxious in his reply..... please PM me his identification, I would not want to do business with someone like this. Cheers, RickO

Bochiman · July 1, 2015 3:06AM

No confusion at all.
As others have stated, raw=not encapsulated by a TPGS. Coin can easily be held bare in one's hand, without having to crack anything open (ie....an airtight encased coin is still raw).

Send me a PM on the coin dates/MMs you were after and I will see if I have them and will just send them to you.

Sucks when someone plays a game in selling things on the BST

KollectorKing · July 1, 2015 3:09AM

I think you were "NOT SURE" about the condition of the other coins, but still send the $$.
kk

roadrunner · July 1, 2015 3:15AM

There shouldn't be any real difference in value between an average unc 1962 or a circ one. A lot of dealers send BU Roosies to the smelter along with the circs.

It is sort of a cheap shot to only show the best coin and say nothing of the condition of the others. Usually it's best to assume the worst condition and go from there.

BustCuds · July 1, 2015 3:20AM

Shady deal not disclosing the grades of all the Roosies in the group.

Not all slabbed coins are UNCs.

Not someone I'd like to deal with

, please PM the seller.

LindeDad · July 1, 2015 3:26AM

If your Not Sure what RAW means maybe you should Not Assume anything.

Ahrensdad · July 1, 2015 3:27AM

You've asked, so here is my response.

The seller should have better described what was being sold based on your PM'd comments and inquiry about condition, strike one. The seller is over the top in their response to your PM after receiving the merchandise, strike two. Raw = Circulated...seriously? Strike three.

But I also have to say that IMO the OP is over the top as well for starting a thread about a $7 transaction, where with a little more care this all could have been avioded. I know, its the principal of the thing, and I don't disagree but I guess I'd chalk it up to "live and learn". The cost of tuition for this lesson was pretty cheap.

Sorry you were treated shabbily on the BST.
Andrew

DRUNNER · July 1, 2015 3:52AM

My personal feeling is that you were clear. Raw is 'ungraded by a TPG company and not placed in a holder', to me. I have never confused that with BU or circulated. Your desires for BU and the coins' disposition in your album were straight up.

Philosophically, you were right. In financial terms, it probably was a wash. One BU and 5 circ. commons are about the right price. Of course, that does not diminish the fact the seller was a little bit less than honest on the deal. . . .

Drunner

mbogoman · July 1, 2015 3:58AM

<< RAW means not certified in a slab.

A coin in any condition can be raw. >>

This.

IMO, you were clear and asked the right questions, the seller is absolutely in the wrong and furthermore, rude beyond belief for such a small transaction. I'd hate to have to argue with him about anything of substance.

Please PM me his ID.

Unknown · July 1, 2015 4:11AM

This content has been removed.

Baley · July 1, 2015 4:17AM

Perhaps the seller is a bit off, as only posts inane snarky comments and and pictures of change finds on this forum, and only sells change finds on the BST?

And does both rather poorly it seems?

Then again, NotSure, you decided to buy them??

I'd call it even at this point in the match.

s4ny · July 1, 2015 5:04AM

Melt is $6.75...

19Lyds · July 1, 2015 5:19AM

<< Having a problem with a BST transaction, but before I place blame on the seller, I'm wondering what you all think? Seller posted a BST FS thread, of 6 raw Roosies. Seller posts an image of an UNC '62 Roosie, no other images of the other 5 coins (seller conveniently deletes everything from the thread). I message the seller, my first message to him, and specifically state, and I quote, "If the other 5 coins are in the same condition as the '62 you have imaged, then the need to get them for the Dansco....". In another message to the seller, I stated this, "Give me a heads-up when you get it (meaning my payment), and I look forward to putting some NICE unc Roosies in my Dansco."

Now, if you're the seller, and were to read this, and you KNOW the other 5 coins are NOT in the same condition as the one imaged and posted in the offering, and it is quite obvious that the buyer is looking for 6 UNCs, do you have an obligation to tell the potential buyer, who spelled out twice that he was looking for UNCs, that the other 5 coins you did NOT have imaged, are NOT in the same condition, they are NOT UNC?? Do you just send the one unc coin you imaged, and 5 circulated coins?

After receiving the package (no tracking), and seeing pocket change, I message the seller and ask if this is a joke, did he send the wrong package, and that I'd like to return them, as the other 5 are circulated. The seller's response.....

"what do you think RAW MEANS? ever heard of the PM function you should of sent me a PM before buying but no you just thought they were UNC, wild guess RAW most likely means they have seen use NO RETURNS A DEAL IS A DEAL I bought these RAW from a coin shop whatever the issue is not my problem
next time if you want UNC buy slabbed coins"

DOES 'raw' "most likely mean they have seen use"??? His statement that I did not ask is a crock....while it wasn't in the form of a question, I specifically stated "as long as they look like the '62 (the only one of the 6 he imaged). Is the seller obligated to tell me the rest of the 6 are circulated? While I did NOT put it in the form of a question, I believe I made it clear what I was looking for. I WASN'T expecting MS67 coins, but WAS looking for nice, unc album coins, like the coin he posted.

OK, that's the whole story....the seller CANNOT deny I messaged him twice, stating I was looking for 6 uncs. Who is at fault? Am I because I never ASKED, but made a statement saying what I was looking for, that I just 'thought' they were unc? Were my messages clear enough that the seller should have come clean?? OR, Is the seller at fault, for seeing my messages, KNOWING I was looking for uncs for my Dansco, and not disclosing 5 were circulated???

All this over a $7 sale....but, I believe I made it clear what I was looking for. Am I at fault, or is the seller just wrong???? >>

Arg!

The sellers reply is enough for me to ask who this was simply because folks that sell coins to collectors have no business acting like such an ass. Not to mention the fact that the seller obviously has a screw loose in his/her book of knowledge!

Fault? The seller obviously chose to ignore your PM's regarding "uncirculated coins". As such, I would fault the seller for not being forthright.

Pokermandude · July 1, 2015 5:22AM

You paid 25 cents over melt including shipping.

Boosibri · July 1, 2015 5:24AM

<< You appear to be right.

But it is $7, not $7000.

Make a note to yourself about the seller for future reference, take a deep breath of fresh air, be glad that you are alive and that you live in this great country, and put it out of your mind.

Life is too short to get yourself upset over these things. >>

+100

johnny9434 · July 1, 2015 5:26AM

<< Raw - not in a company holder

It has nothing to do with wear >>

yeah, what she said.

dlmtorts · July 1, 2015 5:28AM

Raw has nothing to do with condition. All those slab uncirculated coins were once raw uncirculated too. Lousy response by seller. Please pm me his identity. And, thanks for posting this. While I agree that it isn't worth getting upset over, some of us would like to know who it is so we can make our own decisions about future purchases.

habaraca · July 1, 2015 5:33AM

My concern is the BLANTANT butt head reply from the seller....

Please out the scammer so we all can avoid this dishonesty!!

1tommy · July 1, 2015 6:37AM

I once sold two coins to a Friend, for 230 bucks. We both know how that turned out Right? Some things will never be forgotten.........Enjoy

Karma?

AngryTurtle · July 1, 2015 7:43AM

<< 

<< 

<< RAW means not certified in a slab.

A coin in any condition can be raw. >>

This.

IMO, you were clear and asked the right questions, the seller is absolutely in the wrong and furthermore, rude beyond belief for such a small transaction. I'd hate to have to argue with him about anything of substance.

Please PM me his ID. >>

This is basically the post I was going to write. His attitude over a couple bucks isn't worth dealing with him, even if you were in the wrong by jumping the gun and paying too quick. Out him or PM me his username. >>

lkeigwin · July 1, 2015 7:59AM

While I would not have gone forward with the purchase without a reply back confirming the condition and/or pictures of the other coins, I agree the seller was not forthright. And his butthead reply says even more about him.

I would not want to do business with anyone like this (and wouldn't mind a PM so that I don't).

Yeah, $7...I wouldn't let it get to me. I'd just shake my head and move along.
Lance.

golden · July 1, 2015 8:18AM

<< You appear to be right.

But it is $7, not $7000.

Make a note to yourself about the seller for future reference, take a deep breath of fresh air, be glad that you are alive and that you live in this great country, and put it out of your mind.

Life is too short to get yourself upset over these things. >>

grote15 · July 1, 2015 8:21AM

Now, if you're the seller, and were to read this, and you KNOW the other 5 coins are NOT in the same condition as the one imaged and posted in the offering, and it is quite obvious that the buyer is looking for 6 UNCs, do you have an obligation to tell the potential buyer, who spelled out twice that he was looking for UNCs, that the other 5 coins you did NOT have imaged, are NOT in the same condition, they are NOT UNC??

Absolutely, 100% yes.

MsMorrisine · July 1, 2015 8:27AM

The little light went on

If you buy a coin "raw" from a shop AND "raw" means circulated.... What is it called when you buy it and it is uncirculated? You "bought it uncirculated" from a shop?

Do we pocket piece a coin to make it raw?

Very, very strange usage of the word "raw" as uncirculated.

Phony is a compliment -- like "bad" is. Right.

OperationButter · July 1, 2015 8:39AM

Bottom line, the BST is built on trust.

More and more this trust is being broken. We need to work together and stop crap like this or it will be very difficult to buy and sell on the BST. I don't think any of us want that to happen.

Thanks for the PM Ken, appreciate it.

coinbuf · July 1, 2015 8:39AM

Both parties to this transaction are wrong to a degree, While your messages hint at and imply what you expected you should have been more direct and wait for comfirmation of just what you were agreeing to purchase. The seller was shady and his reply clearly shows his stripes; considering that your loss is under $1 I'd just laugh it off and move on. But I would and do think you should out the seller so no other member gets a more expensive lesson from this seller.

derryb · July 1, 2015 9:11AM

Because we police ourselves on the BST, regardless of dollar amount topic needs to be discussed. Seller needs to understand that he was wrong in not responding to the buyer's PMs before shipping. Buyer was wrong for paying before receiving clarification.

DennisH · July 1, 2015 9:29AM

Seller is wrong.
Seller was trying to do exactly what he did: give the impression of higher quality coins.

Don't do business with him again.

determined · July 1, 2015 9:44AM

The seller was wrong and way out of line.

Please PM me his name so I can avoid him.

But ultimately, DaveWcoins's advice should be written in stone. Or at least made into a sticky post, or put into someone's signature line.

<< Make a note to yourself about the seller for future reference, take a deep breath of fresh air, be glad that you are alive and that you live in this great country, and put it out of your mind.

Life is too short to get yourself upset over these things. >>

jesbroken · July 1, 2015 10:22AM

The true shame in this transaction is that it occurred on the BST. I have had many, many transactions and never
ran into a seller such as this. While the money amount is small and weak points in both sides actions, I feel that
this should not occur on the BST and every effort should be made to insure that it does not happen again. Hope the
OP does not let this discourage him from future purchases on the BST and I hope the seller leaves the BST.
Just my opinion.
Jim

jedm · July 1, 2015 2:12PM

Please pm the seller's ID....from a previous reply about snarky comments and other posts I have a suspicion as to his identity. thank you.

Bochiman · July 1, 2015 3:59PM

<< Please pm the seller's ID....from a previous reply about snarky comments and other posts I have a suspicion as to his identity. thank you. >>

Yeah....thinking the same way....and, if one were to search for that alias on the BST, one would notice (if it IS the same person) all the posts are deleted after they have done their bit...and even the way they are done would make me suspect (hind sight and seeing the whole thing)

Just sad all around. People can say what they want about the amount, people can say that someone should have waited, yada yada yada, but at the end of the day, the issue is on how the seller, who, IF it IS the person we may be thinking of, has been around the boards way long enough to know better.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 1, 2015 9:18PM

Raw means "exposed skin", for all intents and purposes. In this instance , it reads like a case many old-timers would call a "raw deal". Thankfully it's not a lot of money, but the principle remains the same.

Nap · July 1, 2015 9:30PM

The question to the seller was poorly worded in your message.

You should have said simply, "Are the other coins uncirculated?" A yes or no response would have made both of your lives easier.

ricko · July 1, 2015 10:48PM

Thanks for the PM Ken,..... Cheers, RickO

CaptHenway · July 1, 2015 10:55PM

<< You appear to be right.

But it is $7, not $7000.

Make a note to yourself about the seller for future reference, take a deep breath of fresh air, be glad that you are alive and that you live in this great country, and put it out of your mind.

Life is too short to get yourself upset over these things. >>

This^

justcollecting · July 2, 2015 1:34AM

<< 

<< You appear to be right.

But it is $7, not $7000.

Make a note to yourself about the seller for future reference, take a deep breath of fresh air, be glad that you are alive and that you live in this great country, and put it out of your mind.

Life is too short to get yourself upset over these things. >>

This^ >>

Life might be to short...but....The real question is ....Do you really want this shady character posting on the BST.

nwcoast · July 2, 2015 3:02AM

The majority of the responses to this situation reflect my feelings on the matter.
Raw is raw and has nothing to do with condition.
The sellers response was rude.
Let it go and move on, however please...
PM me his/her handle so that I might avoid them. (I don't do much BST anyways though this would be a good start in knowing who to avoid!)

MsMorrisine · July 2, 2015 3:04AM

PM me too

TwoSides2aCoin · July 2, 2015 3:16AM

Cmon mate, hit me up with the PM.

TomB · July 2, 2015 3:23AM

A few observations based upon the idea that the OP has already laid out the entirety of the communication and transaction-

1) The OP could have and should have been more clear in any pre-transaction questions.

2) The seller, whomever it is, appears to be untrustworthy, or to at least have selective memory and communication skills and should likely be avoided.

3) "Raw" is not accepted as equal to "circulated"; but it is generally accepted to be equivalent to "uncertified".

jdillane · July 2, 2015 3:30AM

The rendition of events seems mostly factual, aside from a select adverb or two. Seems to me that it would be preferred to disclose the seller in the thread and PM him an invitation to share his side of the story.

Fortunately the amount at issue is nominal and it would seem you got whatever you got for a fair price at the end of the day. But civility and propriety weigh most heavily here and both sides should be heard.

Also, it would be helpful for some if the parties user names were searchable relative to this issue. That might assist with deciding on future bst transactions.

silverpop · July 2, 2015 3:33AM

ok

here are the facts and feel free to legally disprove them( no opinions allowed just legal facts)

i'm not legally accountable for:

lack of common sense

lack of judgment

lack of understanding basic coin terms and their meanings

people not using the PM to tell the seller what they want

people thinking they are getting a rip when they aren't

Does 'raw' mean 'circulated'? BST gone bad...seller 'SILVERPOP'

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