Could someone who has zero interest in numismatics still make an excellent coin grader?

braddick · March 23, 2015 8:22AM

For example, someone who simply lacks any desire to collect or study coins.
Could this same individual train himself to become an outstanding grader, or is one of the qualities of a grader an inherent interest in the field of numismatics?

mirabela · March 23, 2015 8:26AM

I would expect so. I don't think you have to love them to grade them. How many meat inspectors are meat hobbyists?

keyman64 · March 23, 2015 8:27AM

Yes, or so it seems. I talked to a current grader at a TPG and he was telling me that a coworker that is also a grader does not collect or have much interest in coins.

CoinJunkie · March 23, 2015 8:29AM

<< <i>For example, someone who simply lacks any desire to collect or study coins.
Could this same individual train himself to become an outstanding grader, or is one of the qualities of a grader an inherent interest in the field of numismatics? >>

It seems possible, in theory, but my opinion is that one must examine (i.e., study) thousands upon thousands
of coins to become a proficient grader, and it's hard to imagine someone with no interest in coins doing that.

Bochiman · March 23, 2015 8:34AM

If one previously collected/dealt/had the passion, then it went away and they wanted to be a great grader, I think I would say "yes".

If someone had never collected/dealt/had the passion, and they were just a detailed person with a great eye, I think they could grade, as a job, but I doubt, in all seriousness, they would be a great grader as they likely wouldn't go out of the way to learn the nuances of some of the series/years/coins.

WTCG · March 23, 2015 8:37AM

On instinct I would say not but personally I know of several people who became lawyers who hated law, people who became doctors but didn't know a thing about medicine before the first day of pre-med and even one who became a commercial airline pilot who had never flown on an airplane or sat in a flight deck in his life until the first time he stepped into a flight simulator. So based on that I would say it is possible to become a grader without a background in numismatics.

BryceM · March 23, 2015 8:39AM

Odd question.

I personally find it almost impossible to be genuinely knowledgeable about something that I have zero interest in. It would certainly make for a dull existence. Most people would not be jealous of those sitting in a dark room for hours on end looking at little tidbits of metal.

On the other hand, it's perfectly common for someone who does not collect coins to be a fine numismatist. That person could easily be a professional grader.

But, being a numismatist and being a collector are two very distinct things.

winky · March 23, 2015 8:39AM

I would prefer someone else doing my grading.

TopographicOceans · March 23, 2015 8:45AM

Sure anyone can render an opinion.

But if someone studied and mastered the art of technical grading they could become proficient.

Probably most graders lose interest in numismatics after awhile anyway. It's like working in a candy factory - you don't go home and eat candy.

Christos · March 23, 2015 8:46AM

I would say yes. Now I would also say that a person not interested in coins with no knowledge in coins could be one of the best graders because they could be thought what to look for in surface, strike etc and have no bias on any coin being looked at. Back in the mid 90s I sold cars and after some time I trained people to sell cars. When the dealer I worked for placed an ad I asked for them to ask for people with know knowledge of sales or cars so they could be trained and would not have any preexisting bad habits that would have to be countered.

puffer · March 23, 2015 9:20AM

I don't know how they do it. I would think the criteria for the job are an indomitable store of patience and persistance. Extremely keen vision and intellects. Good social skills, as any job with people around require ability to get along. Clean records. Good work histories. Do they have to love numismatics? Not necessarily but it sure helps. I have spoken with the customer service and shipping people at the grading services and they are likely hired based on those skills and most of them are not collectors.

LindeDad · March 23, 2015 9:38AM

Can the cloud? No one has quantified eye appeal yet. And as long as the third party grading firms are using it over technical merit, I do not think so.

silverpop · March 23, 2015 10:02AM

doubt it cause you have to know coins to be a grader

words like eye appeal and such would be lost on a non collector as they have no idea how to apply them to coins

coinkat · March 23, 2015 10:42AM

Based on the question asked in the title of your thread, my answer is no.

Icollecteverything · March 23, 2015 11:44AM

Is eye appeal supposed to have any bearing on a technical numerical grade?

jcping · March 23, 2015 11:59AM

Theoretically, it is possible and it has been tried before, the CompuGrade. Nevertheless, the robot wasn't smart enough and cannot be trained

AMRC · March 23, 2015 12:29PM

Absolutely, in fact, not every grader is a collector.

mustangmanbob · March 23, 2015 1:02PM

Allegedly, many of the scribes and monks who hand wrote the Bibles and other manuscripts before the printing press were themselves illiterate.

They copied exact what was in front of them.

So, theoretically, a grader, with a perfect set of standards, would follow the standard, and not bring in his/her previous biases and preconceptions.

lasvegasteddy · March 23, 2015 1:09PM

no
they wouldn't know or understand certain aspects only a numismatist does

grading is an art...not a job by some random knucklehead...sorry

BillJones · March 23, 2015 1:20PM

I don't see how a person be a total non collector with no interest in numismatics and be a qualified grader, but lots of you seem to think otherwise. I started with a Brown and Dunn grading guide in 1960 and studied like a mad man, at least as well as a 12 year old to do that. The next big milestone for me in grading was the first edition of Photograde. I studied that book as hard I did with some college textbooks circa 1969. Beyond that I looked at as many coins as I could find. After that it was the first ANA grading guides which had photographs, but by then my eye was pretty well set. Today I would say I am a competent grader, and I'll brag and say that I am as good as most out there including most of the people who grade for NGC and PCGS. It took years of study and a good eye.

Now I am sure that there are grading savants out there somewhere, but they are almost as rare as 1804 dollars. Most who have little or no interest in numismatics who say they are expert graders are delusional or dishonest.

BustHalfBrian · March 23, 2015 1:58PM

I think so. I don't know why someone who doesn't like coins would want to be a coin grading, but as long as they are educated in the science (and I use that term loosely) aspect of coin grading, I don't see a problem.

Interesting question with a mix of opinions. Thanks for initiating an enlightening discussion.

Walkerfan · March 23, 2015 2:05PM

I think that someone with an interest and/or passion would be better and learn quicker.

leothelyon · March 23, 2015 3:27PM

This past weekend, I was surprised how many golfers are out there who could shoot a round a golf in the high 60's and low 70's. There were like 4 tournaments being played around the world and there were likely more. So yes, in the Op's respect but I think there's much more to learn about each of the series. Most are easy but some can be very difficult based on the metal content. Because nickel doesn't strike up well nor is it as lustrous as silver. Copper is soft and there are differences to tend with. All coins/series can't follow the same grading standards. But whether someone collects coins or not, overtime, I think they would eventually come to understand each series......after they have seen a few coins. Hopefully. Don't give up on hope.

Leo

OPA · March 23, 2015 9:52PM

<< <i>no
they wouldn't know or understand certain aspects only a numismatist does

grading is an art...not a job by some random knucklehead...sorry >>

"Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."

GoldenEyeNumismatics · March 23, 2015 11:29PM

<< <i>

grading is an art...not a job by some random knucklehead...sorry >>

Personally, I think the proportion of knuckleheads is actually higher among the collecting population than that of the general population.

ricko · March 23, 2015 11:41PM

Skills can be taught/learned. If one is interested in the 'field', learning usually comes easier since the mind is set favorably to the subject. However, those who are diligent and seeking employment, could undoubtedly become proficient as graders. I have known many people who do not like their job, but do it well. Cheers, RickO

tahoe98 · March 23, 2015 11:57PM

Could someone who has zero interest in numismatics still make an excellent coin grader?

...as long as they all had a background check...

Justacommeman · March 24, 2015 1:47AM

Yes.

Mark

roadrunner · March 24, 2015 2:04AM

<< <i>Yes.

Mark >>

+1

And the most important feature is that your brain-eyes are wired correctly to be a technically proficient and repetitive grader. Many don't have the genetics to do so. And the earlier you get trained up while your brain is growing the further you can most likely go. Shouldn't be any different than learning the violin or a foreign language early. Most anyone can eventually train themselves to be a very good, "maybe" even an excellent grader in their fields of emphasis. But becoming world class is as much dependent on genetics than it is effort. I wonder if world class graders like Albanese, Lipton, Streiner, Carroll, Halperin, etc. that learned the grading game very early had mentors or did it mostly by themselves? It would seem the earlier you learn it with proper mentoring the fewer bad habits and weak links you will eventually develop. Those that are excellent in the physical sciences (math, languages, engineering-mechanics, etc.) might have an advantage. Having a keen or photographic memory is a big plus.