Poll - What kind of dealer should I be?

AMRC · March 9, 2015 12:25PM

According to Laura in her article this month, "so many" dealers are either crack out dealers, bottom fishers, or are incompetent wannabes. With all these choice's, I just can't make up my mind. Any suggestions?

Edited to Correct the structure of my sentence which included not pluralizing a word, and creating a compound word when one does not exist.

jcping · March 9, 2015 12:30PM

You are Pro based on the two transactions that we had before

There isn't an option of Pro

georgiacop50 · March 9, 2015 12:37PM

You need another option:

drunk dealer

roadrunner · March 9, 2015 12:38PM

<< According to Laura in her article this month, "so many" dealers are either crackout dealers, bottom fishers, or are incompetent wannabes. With all these choice, I just can't make up my mind. Any suggestions? >>

The truth is that most dealers use all those tactics at one time or another. Most have cracked out coins. Most buy deals on the cheap from time to time. And a large % don't know all that much outside of their normal areas (ie technically wannabes). I've known very successful top flight dealers that really couldn't grade technically. It didn't make them "wannabes." They still did quite well as they priced the product fairly and knew how to service their customers properly.

BillJones · March 9, 2015 12:38PM

Yep, everybody is an idiot except her.

WTCG · March 9, 2015 12:40PM

One who is a smart buyer and in turn one who prices his coins to sell at realistic levels.

Collectors who turn into dealers need to sedate their collector mentality. Sellers' remorse is an enormous yet malignant liability that interferes in the transition from collector to successful dealer.

GRANDAM · March 9, 2015 1:17PM

Crack out dealers make a pretty good living,,,,

I would go with that one

GrandAm

bigjpst · March 9, 2015 1:28PM

<< One who is a smart buyer and in turn one who prices his coins to sell at realistic levels.

>>

What are realistic prices.
According to the "Hot Topic" article, this isn't a requirement because they pay up for quality coins and still make a profit right?

I guess all the bottom feeders and wannabes should keep there prices realistic though.

bidask · March 9, 2015 1:58PM

<< According to Laura in her article this month, "so many" dealers are either crackout dealers, bottom fishers, or are incompetent wannabes. With all these choice, I just can't make up my mind. Any suggestions? >>

Your website suggests you ....."create detailed estate appraisals based on real market valuations ....."

How do you determine real market valuations for the estate appraisals you create?

Coinosaurus · March 9, 2015 2:28PM

Everyone has to define their own biz model. Legend does what works for them. YMMV. Bottom line, there is no substitute for hard work.

tradedollarnut · March 9, 2015 2:32PM

With all these choice, I just can't make up my mind. Any suggestions

spell check?

lkeigwin · March 9, 2015 2:46PM

I voted crack out dealer...use the skills you've developed. No shame in that.
Lance.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · March 9, 2015 2:50PM

As far as choosing what kind a dealer one should be...gotta figure a crackout dealer has far less risk than just a crack dealer alone

WTCG · March 9, 2015 3:04PM

Paying a premium for top quality coins is fine and dandy when the quality of the coins merit it. The problem is most coins offered for sale are not really worthy of top dollar even though the owners think they are. A common problem with sellers is asking too much for coins that are not actually worthy of premium prices.

jedm · March 9, 2015 3:16PM

Be one of the few... none of the above.

segoja · March 9, 2015 3:20PM

just do the right thing....that'll make you a great dealer

Bochiman · March 9, 2015 3:23PM

Who cares?
Be what you want without the drama, that's what kind of dealer you should be.

mariner67 · March 9, 2015 3:26PM

<< Who cares?
Be what you want without the drama, that's what kind of dealer you should be. >>

Justlooking · March 9, 2015 3:35PM

Depends on the situation. Be all of the above, but only at the appropriate times.

TwoSides2aCoin · March 9, 2015 9:32PM

"KIND"…

My mom taught me that kindness was the only attribute that matters.

"Should"

My sister always said "Never 'should' on yourself, or anyone else for that matter"

Boosibri · March 9, 2015 9:45PM

Her comment obviously touched a nerve with you. Which do you think you are?

C0INB0Y · March 9, 2015 10:05PM

<< According to Laura in her article this month, "so many" dealers are either crackout dealers, bottom fishers, or are incompetent wannabes. With all these choice, I just can't make up my mind. Any suggestions? >>

Which one is she?

mercurydimeguy · March 9, 2015 10:40PM

I read the post and to be honest, she makes a number of valid points.

Some things taken out of context can be quite sensational but in context ithey represent a person's opinion.

Free speech is alive and well, and the post doesn't slander anyone by name.

It calls out pricing ineffectiveness in a pointed kind of way, but in some respects it is one area that hasn't evolved or benefited by the Internet as much as I though it would have. The shear volume of transactions of unknown quality at the same grade has almost been counter-beneficial to the hobby.

What it really calls out is the problem with the grading concept. It's outlived its usefulness. I've been preaching moving to a coin ranking scheme for more than a decade now, and mark my word it will happen (just not fast enough). I am building a software company around predictive analytics/machine learning that can be modified to be applied to coins so I know it's possible. We are not far away technologically from a massive disruption towards coin ranking vs coin grading. More on this topic later ....

But Legend's business would be a huge beneficiary of coin ranking versus grading because they deal in high end, not just high grade. But there are scores of dealers who deal in high end also, and they will also benefit.

So I believe long term the solution is less about changing behavior over time but more about massive/sudden disruption. In reality most changes in history have not been gradual but sudden.

I work with so many smart people in my field that the pieces are already there to make this a reality. Image analysis and recognition, machine learning and predictive analytics, platforms to scale with Big Data....

It will happen, and in my lifetime I'm certain. The key is whether it will happen because a TPG cannibalize their existing model for a new one (it would require a lot of if investment so they need deep pockets), or will someone come along to disrupt the TPGs ... Like MySpace, which essentially became irrelevant overnight when Mark Zuckerberg appeared on TV many years ago to share an idea called Facebook.

Anyhow, in the interim the industry will continue to struggle because the Internet has been such a disruptor. But then even a bigger disruptor will come along and change our hobby for ever.

My 10 cents on the topic ....

EDIT TO ADD: typed this on my iPhone so I apologize for typos

ms70 · March 9, 2015 10:52PM

<< Yep, everybody is an idiot except her.

>>

And her zombie minions.

ARCO · March 9, 2015 11:05PM

Crack dealer seems more promising than a coin dealer.

Tyler

AMRC · March 9, 2015 11:29PM

<< 

<< According to Laura in her article this month, "so many" dealers are either crackout dealers, bottom fishers, or are incompetent wannabes. With all these choice, I just can't make up my mind. Any suggestions? >>

Your website suggests you ....."create detailed estate appraisals based on real market valuations ....."

How do you determine real market valuations for the estate appraisals you create? >>

I teach a class for the ANA called "Numismatic Valuations" In that class I discuss all the considerations that go into determining value. But at the end of the day it is subjective, and so coin I have for sale is priced according to what "I think" I would be comfortable selling THAT particular coin for, after that, I really do not care much about "guides."

AMRC · March 9, 2015 11:48PM

<< Her comment obviously touched a nerve with you. Which do you think you are? >>

The nerve she touched was one of arrogance. If you cannot make your point WITHOUT tearing down others, you probably don't have a point.

A. Crackout dealer: I have cracked out coins, especially those from across the street because I felt they would either cross or upgrade. Guilty!
B. Bottom Fisher: I may not fully understand what this means, but have I had to buy some dogs? YES! When I buy an estate I have to buy everything. To me, Cherry Picking a person who is coming to me for an honest sale is unethical. So I buy it all. You will see common date $40 Morgans right next to 5 figure coins. It cracks me up when people make back-handed comments about that, but I sell what comes to me. It is just all part of being a dealer.
C. Incompetent Wannabe: You can call me that when it comes to Die Marriages, Medals, Tokens, and a whole host of things. There is basically a spectrum from newbie to accomplished collector. No one knows it all. Do you think every successful entrepreneur knew "everything" before they plunged in? Ridiculous. I assume I will continue making mistakes right up until the day I get my final discharge orders. I am learning every day. There are things I ask others, and there are others who ask me things. It is called a "body of knowledge." Do I wish I knew more? You bet.

ricko · March 9, 2015 11:58PM

Be a dealer that relates to customers, provides great customer service, handles a wide spectrum of coins (quality and type) and have a sense of humor. Cheers, RickO

TwoSides2aCoin · March 10, 2015 12:06AM

You are the kind of dealer you are because you're good. That's all. Don't read into her too much except when it comes to coins.

joebb21 · March 10, 2015 12:44AM

I am going with successful.

Fortunately the definition can be written by you and it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

BillJones · March 10, 2015 12:48AM

<< 

<< Her comment obviously touched a nerve with you. Which do you think you are? >>

The nerve she touched was one of arrogance. If you cannot make your point WITHOUT tearing down others, you probably don't have a point.

A. Crackout dealer: I have cracked out coins, especially those from across the street because I felt they would either cross or upgrade. Guilty!
B. Bottom Fisher: I may not fully understand what this means, but have I had to buy some dogs? YES! When I buy an estate I have to buy everything. To me, Cherry Picking a person who is coming to me for an honest sale is unethical. So I buy it all. You will see common date $40 Morgans right next to 5 figure coins. It cracks me up when people make back-handed comments about that, but I sell what comes to me. It is just all part of being a dealer.
C. Incompetent Wannabe: You can call me that when it comes to Die Marriages, Medals, Tokens, and a whole host of things. There is basically a spectrum from newbie to accomplished collector. No one knows it all. Do you think every successful entrepreneur knew "everything" before they plunged in? Ridiculous. I assume I will continue making mistakes right up until the day I get my final discharge orders. I am learning every day. There are things I ask others, and there are others who ask me things. It is called a "body of knowledge." Do I wish I knew more? You bet. >>

Legend is sometimes not an easy company to approach. They deal in mostly high grade, high priced material, and if you don't seem to be their type of collector it can be difficult to get their attention.

I've learned over my lifetime that my appearance does not impress some people initially. I'm like "Amos" the character from the musical and film "Chicago."

"Cellophane, Cellophane,
That's my name, Mr. Cellophane,
You can look right through me,
walk right through me,
and never know I'm there!"

A lot of bourse dealers know me because I've attending major shows since the 1970s, but that recognition has come after I sat down and talked with them awhile and did some business. Some of them have since asked my advice in areas where they did not have a lot of experience.

But with Legend, it can be very hard to crack the ice as it was for me with some other dealers like New Netherlands. They were a New York City based firm, that conducted major auctions years ago and helped the Norwebs build their collection. They dismissed me and would not show me any coins when I paid a visit to their office in the 1970s, when I was in my 20s.

It was their loss because a lot of other important dealers of the day like Catherine Bullowa and Robert Batcher did pay attention to me, and we did some mutually beneficial business. As dealer, I learned not a judge a book by its cover ... Like the day a guy in overalls asked to look at a Bust Dollar I had, and then reached in his pocket, pulled out a wad and started peeling off $100 bills at a small show in Florida.

johnny9434 · March 10, 2015 5:03AM

you might want bigger mustard stains then then everyone else. just saying

BillJones · March 10, 2015 5:13AM

<< you might want bigger mustard stains then then everyone else. just saying >>

I can't speak for the local shows, but most of the dealers I see at the major shows usually don't have mustard stains. Most of them are fairly well dressed.

In fact I don't like to see some dealers too well dressed. Some of the guys in the coats and ties scare me. For a couple of dealers I know that's what they wear after the show opens as a part of their company policy and image, so I take that into account. For others it's part of the "Let's attract the Wall Street crowd" game, which translates to "watch out for your wallet."

Walkerfan · March 10, 2015 5:40AM

I like dealers who are knowledgeable, have integrity, are honest and who offer quality coins regardless of price.

topstuf · March 10, 2015 6:06AM

Preferably an Ahab dealer who can find whales.
They make the most money.

BillJones · March 10, 2015 6:16AM

<< Preferably an Ahab dealer who can find whales.
They make the most money. >>

Yep, harpooning real whales was a very lucrative and risky business in the 19th century. Harpooning financial whales has paid well for some in the 20th century, and it could get risky if you were dishonest and happened to stick one who had a good lawyer.

RCDB · March 10, 2015 9:13AM

All of the above would probably be more fun.

Nic · March 10, 2015 9:18AM

<< With all these choice, I just can't make up my mind. Any suggestions

spell check?

>>

Be the kind of dealer that complains and posts negative threads on the PCGS Message Boards?

puffer · March 10, 2015 10:17AM

Be the kind of coarse, obstreperous, bullying, mean-spirited, greed-driven, foul-mouth drunk constantly reminding everyone within earshot what a legend you were and are currently in many seemingly contradictory fields; an "expert" in the world of research and knowledge of coins and also a steely-eyed businessman always looking to squeeze the last nickel out of a transaction. Be someone people remember, someone to break new ground in personality clashes that keeps everyone around guessing what you will do next.

Ablinky · March 10, 2015 10:39AM

<< just do the right thing....that'll make you a great dealer >>

Well said.

Justacommeman · March 10, 2015 10:50AM

Thicker skin should be all the rage

MJ

CoinJunkie · March 10, 2015 11:02AM

Emily Litella would have had a good time with "crackout dealer"...

kaz · March 10, 2015 11:39AM

<< Emily Litella would have had a good time with "crackout dealer"...

>>

mrearlygold · March 10, 2015 11:47AM

You can be what you wanna be, on cloud nine, ......

Temps

winky · March 10, 2015 11:52AM

How about wanna be honest?

CoinJunkie · March 10, 2015 2:58PM

<< The nerve she touched was one of arrogance. If you cannot make your point WITHOUT tearing down others, you probably don't have a point. >>

Granted, I'm not a coin dealer, so I have the luxury of not feeling like I'm in the crosshairs, but
my advice is to take everything she writes with a massive grain of salt. I think she subscribes
to the concept that there's "no such thing as bad publicity", and provocation is just another ploy
for attention. Just my opinion, of course.

telephoto1 · March 11, 2015 4:04AM

I'm pretty much over Laura's rants. Most are self serving in one form or another...this latest one for example is basically imo an attempt to rationalize paying well over market for "nice coins" (translation: their inventory, apparently) by saying all price guides are inaccurate and ripping on other dealers as inferior. Not very professional (or classy) imo... and I lose patience with the "it's just Laura being Laura" excuses for such behavior.

Broadstruck · March 11, 2015 4:39AM

Just be the type of dealer that doesn't feel the need to badmouth your competition & pride yourself on using proper grammar

ms70 · March 11, 2015 5:08AM

<< I'm pretty much over Laura's rants. Most are self serving in one form or another...this latest one for example is basically imo an attempt to rationalize paying well over market for "nice coins" (translation: their inventory, apparently) by saying all price guides are inaccurate and ripping on other dealers as inferior. Not very professional (or classy) imo... and I lose patience with the "it's just Laura being Laura" excuses for such behavior. >>

Nailed it.

Poll - What kind of dealer should I be?

Comments

Leave a Comment