Name the collector and the lesson learned from them...

MrEureka · December 28, 2014 5:32AM

I'll start.

The lesson learned from the Pogues. The longer your time horizon, the more important quality becomes, and the less important price becomes.

steveben · December 28, 2014 5:40AM

from ryk: the dirtier, the better.

DUIGUY · December 28, 2014 5:44AM

One of my Mentors once told me this,"Pay attention to whats in the auction", Pay more attention to whats not in the auction".

This has stood as prudent advice in my experience.

edited to add Mentors name Victor Annaloro.

lasvegasteddy · December 28, 2014 5:55AM

madmarty
never snap a picture of your 1964 accented hair cameo proof set while in a B&M in front of a nosy kid that you haven't paid for yet

DUIGUY · December 28, 2014 5:57AM

<< madmarty
never snap a picture of your 1964 accented hair cameo proof set while in a B&M in front of a nosy kid that you haven't paid for yet

>>

Sonorandesertrat · December 28, 2014 6:02AM

"...the best value for the money in coins is to pay more for a high end specimen. In these cases, the plastic has a negative value."
Tradedollarnut

TahoeDale · December 28, 2014 7:02AM

TDN, Saint Guru-

Surface /luster is the most important attribute of high end coins-marks are second or third, along with strike

Don Willis(when he was a collector only)- Capped Bust Halves in PC 65 or better-buy them all!

David Hall/Don Willis giving advice at coin shows-Q by collector-chance for an upgrade? A: resubmit.

crypto79 · December 28, 2014 7:40AM

OriginalDan- Californians are spoiled by weather

Doug winter put a term to what I always sort of knew and help quantify it into applicable practices of multiple layers of demand. My think if one first applies that filter before rolling into individual attributes of purchases one can protect himself in all markets

TopographicOceans · December 28, 2014 7:59AM

Mr. Tulving had a disclaimer on his website saying something to the effect that the coin market is thinly capitalized and when you sell you could realize a substantial loss or there may be no market at all

Though that might have been court ordered.

TopographicOceans · December 28, 2014 8:01AM

<< madmarty
never snap a picture of your 1964 accented hair cameo proof set while in a B&M in front of a nosy kid that you haven't paid for yet >>

LOL - I actually remember that. He was in such a hurry to show Russ, the kid talked the owner out of selling it.

TwoSides2aCoin · December 28, 2014 8:08AM

From Bob Osterholm. The Tidy House soap guy. " Never believe a ________ word _________ says. "

Adjective and name removed to protect the innocent and guilty.

SoCalBigMark · December 28, 2014 8:20AM

Didn't madmarty cherrypick wayne herndon then left all the sets saying he would pay later and forgot?

MrEureka · December 28, 2014 8:21AM

The lesson learned from the Pogues. The longer your time horizon, the more important quality becomes, and the less important price becomes.

FWIW, I learned this by watching them, not by listening to them. I only mention that because I don't want to put words in their mouths.

DRUNNER · December 28, 2014 8:23AM

From Bob White (Bradley's Coins -- Portland) . .

"Limit your downside risk."

Excellent words . . . . . . .

Drunner

TONEDDOLLARS · December 28, 2014 9:03AM

GSAGUY. If after three seconds your not convinced, you do not want it.

PerryHall · December 28, 2014 9:06AM

<< GSAGUY. If after three seconds your not convinced, you do not want it. >>

Do not talk yourself into liking a coin. You'll usually end up with buyer's remorse.

Walkerfan · December 28, 2014 9:20AM

Every wise, investment-minded collector will tell you to get the key dates first and I'll be the first to agree.

MrEureka · December 28, 2014 9:30AM

From Bob White (Bradley's Coins -- Portland) . .

"Limit your downside risk."

Good advice to an investor. Bad advice to anyone looking to build a great collection.

bidask · December 28, 2014 9:41AM

<< The lesson learned from the Pogues. The longer your time horizon, the more important quality becomes, and the less important price becomes.

FWIW, I learned this by watching them, not by listening to them. I only mention that because I don't want to put words in their mouths. >>

I guess your thinking the longer time horizon would automatically assume a higher price at resell?

MGLICKER · December 28, 2014 9:52AM

Guru "No one ever got burned by passing on a coin"

Saved me a bunch of money over the years.

BryceM · December 28, 2014 10:06AM

..... From Abe (Bear):
Jelly donuts fix almost anything & kindness, respect, and dignity go a long way.

MGLICKER · December 28, 2014 10:12AM

Don't show of an Ebay rip on the forum.......even after you receive it.

Don't remember which of 30 or 40 members said it first.

lasvegasteddy · December 28, 2014 10:26AM

<< Don't show of an Ebay rip on the forum.......even after you receive it.

Don't remember which of 30 or 40 members said it first. >>

nowhere is this in forum posting rules that i see
what exactly is wrong with spreading a lil hope that finds can be found ?

i love posting my finds for inspiration as others have inspired me to keep my head up by posting theirs

MrEureka · December 28, 2014 11:01AM

I guess your thinking the longer time horizon would automatically assume a higher price at resell?

No. It's more like that the most exceptional coins tend to have the highest ROI, because buyers, and the market, tend to get richer and more sophisticated. So stretching beyond reason for the right coin today often looks like genius in the long run.

Sonorandesertrat · December 28, 2014 11:20AM

<< I guess your thinking the longer time horizon would automatically assume a higher price at resell?

No. It's more like that the most exceptional coins tend to have the highest ROI, because buyers, and the market, tend to get richer and more sophisticated. So stretching beyond reason for the right coin today often looks like genius in the long run. >>

In decades past, the coins I thought had exceptional eye appeal and 'paid too much for' were the ones that yielded the best returns when I sold them.

tradedollarnut · December 28, 2014 1:11PM

<< Guru "No one ever got burned by passing on a coin"

Saved me a bunch of money over the years. >>

I passed on the OGH 1804 $10 PR64 [+++ ...now 65] at $650k. It sold later for $5M. I don't know about you, but I think I got burned.

jcping · December 28, 2014 1:31PM

Okay, this might not be applicable to the US coins.

When I was young (about 35 years ago), I asked a very famous Chinese coin dealer that when will you retire? His answer was "when I cannot authenticate Chinese coins." I followed his words to quit collecting Chinese coins when I had hard time to authenticate them. I saved tons of money to not to get burned.

LotsoLuck · December 28, 2014 1:45PM

Not from collectors but people I know, "what a waste of money" Lesson? none, I still waste my money.

Davideo · December 28, 2014 1:56PM

<< 

<< Guru "No one ever got burned by passing on a coin"

Saved me a bunch of money over the years. >>

I passed on the OGH 1804 $10 PR64 [+++ ...now 65] at $650k. It sold later for $5M. I don't know about you, but I think I got burned. >>

I think you are defining burned differently than most. I certainly wouldn't consider not get a potential return as being burned. I would think you actually need to loose cash. So paper losses, lost opportunity cost, lost potential return, etc. wouldn't count.

Otherwise everyone got burned in the stock market because their returns were not the highest possible.

Boosibri · December 28, 2014 3:56PM

Great thread!

One of many from RYK...
Coin collecting can take on many different forms and styles. One does not need to espouse traditional set building, but instead, it is OK acquire coins that have a certain look or feel, within a broadly defined category.

OKbustchaser · December 29, 2014 1:53AM

If there are only 3 collectors in the country who want an example of a particular variety then the fact that only 5 examples exist doesn't equate to large premiums. On the other hand, a coin that has 1000 examples and is available basically at will can have a huge premium if there are 1500 people seeking to buy one.

David Hedges--the collector/dealer who was my first mentor way back when.

FredWeinberg · December 29, 2014 3:23AM

As MGlicker says (but I heard this way

"Sometimes the Best Deal is the one you don't do"

ColonelJessup · December 29, 2014 3:43AM

<< 

<< The lesson learned from the Pogues. The longer your time horizon, the more important quality becomes, and the less important price becomes.

FWIW, I learned this by watching them, not by listening to them. I only mention that because I don't want to put words in their mouths. >>

I guess your thinking the longer time horizon would automatically assume a higher price at resell? >>

Arrest the temptation to enter into the absolutist Manichean view of either/or.

Automatically? No one said that. How about greatly increases the probabilities? Or has been shown again and again over multiple time frames and market cycles, in big collections and small, to be highly effective?

My lesson from Eric Newman...... Savor your ice cream every day.

ColonelJessup · December 29, 2014 4:01AM

<< As MGlicker says (but I heard this way

"Sometimes the Best Deal is the one you don't do" >>

Fred and I share a bond on a certain $10 Indian deal. Sometimes being brilliant is not a smart move.

Nice work, TDN. Been there and done that too.

MrHalfDime · December 29, 2014 4:06AM

There have been many collectors who have taught me numerous lessons, and a few who have been mentors to me over the years. Certainly Russ Logan, David Davis, and Jules Reiver come to mind in this regard. Another collector who shared my interest in die states of Capped Bust half dimes was the late Mark Smith, to whom the "Federal Half Dimes 1792- 1837" was dedicated. It was Mark who impressed upon me (and many others) the significance of the 'third die', or the collar, which is all too often ignored when studying coins. It was Mark's research into the collars which made the emission sequence of the Capped Bust half dimes possible.

Another specialist in Capped Bust half dimes taught me years ago the importance of looking at both sides of a coin in order to attribute it, or to identify the die marriage. While this may seem obvious, or an understatement, consider this: When was the last time you saw a discussion of the reverse die for a 1955 Doubled Die Lincoln Cent? Everyone looks for the obvious (e.g., the doubling of the date on the 1955 cent) and immediately concludes it is the rarity, without ever looking at the reverse. It could be the same die marriage, or it could be a new die marriage, even rarer than first thought. I will not honor the purveyor of this very sage advice by disclosing his name, as he is personna non grata to me now, the result of reneging on a significant coin deal years ago. It seems that a person's wisdom and their honor do not always go hand in hand. Nonetheless, he remains a true expert in the series, and I have learned much from him. Much.

DeepCoin · December 29, 2014 4:11AM

I learned much from all the original Mercateers as I was quite new to the little ladies 12 years ago. Applause for Red Fridays please.

ModCrewman · December 29, 2014 4:17AM

My lesson learned from Keets when I first started submitting coins was to grade each coin before submitting it and write down my assigned grade. Comparing the grades assigned by PCGS to my projected grade and evaluating what I missed...rather than what they missed upon return. This bit of advice has proven invaluable to me as I have continued to submit coins for grading over the past several years...I have in turn passed it on several times.

puffer · December 29, 2014 4:32AM

From the late Tom Paine; when you go sell to the wholesalers, they won't give a rat's *** about how high end/low end it is for grade, just that it's in the holder.

MGLICKER · December 29, 2014 4:36AM

<< 

<< Guru "No one ever got burned by passing on a coin"

Saved me a bunch of money over the years. >>

I passed on the OGH 1804 $10 PR64 [+++ ...now 65] at $650k. It sold later for $5M. I don't know about you, but I think I got burned. >>

What was your reason for passing at the time, TDN?

Elcontador · December 29, 2014 4:45AM

Guru "No one ever got burned by passing on a coin"

Another way to put this is just because you have money to spend does not necessarily mean that you should buy a particular coin. I've never in a hurry to buy a coin. It took eight years to find the right AU Heraldic Eagle Bust $. I'll probably never find the right MS 65 Capped Bust Half.

johnny9434 · December 29, 2014 5:02AM

<< 

<< GSAGUY. If after three seconds your not convinced, you do not want it. >>

Do not talk yourself into liking a coin. You'll usually end up with buyer's remorse. >>

good saying i like and something to live by

FredWeinberg · December 29, 2014 5:26AM

Rick - we share a bond, but I wish we shared that deal !

ColonelJessup · December 29, 2014 8:13AM

I got the 11-D into a 64 holder after you were done with it. I think I only lost a grand or two. . . .

Walkerfan · December 29, 2014 8:19AM

1.) I like the concept of 'optimal grade'----meaning the highest grade before it starts getting really pricey with not much added value in the quality of the coin.

2.) and buying the best quality you can afford, while keeping #1 in mind.

3.) also buying the coin and not the holder (patience and persistence pays dividends).

Sonorandesertrat · December 29, 2014 9:07AM

Concerning top pops (and I don't remember the collector's name): paying through the nose to get a top pop when there are tons just one grade increment lower is a fool's game because sooner or later somebody will get an upgrade and your coin won't be special anymore.

DDR · December 29, 2014 9:51AM

I once heard a famous dealer respond in answer to a question about buying coins in third world holders: "As you look at the coin you should be asking yourself, why is this coin not in a PCGS or NGC holder?"

I follow that advice every time I am at a show or see something at an auction that I want and is raw or in another company's holder. Occasionally, I still pull the trigger, but more often than not after close scrutiny I pass.

19Lyds · December 29, 2014 10:07AM

Collector = beatsbyave

Lesson learned = I learnt that there really r solid gold walking liberty half dollars floating around out there. At least two of them.

Coppercolor · December 29, 2014 10:24AM

Nick Cascio - He insisted I start a separate bank account for my coins and not to mix "family" money or income into it. That advice has meant YEARS of guilt free collecting and probably saved my marriage ten times. It also forced me to learn how to find, grade and sell raw coins into the best markets because otherwise my collecting money would have run out long ago.

OldIndianNutKase · December 29, 2014 10:29AM

<>

Sooooo, TDN, How long ago must that have been? Was $650K the final hammer?

OINK

Relaxn · December 29, 2014 12:39PM

I had come into a rather large collection via my grandmother. I knew nothing about coins but like so many young people at the time I knew that there were silver coins and they were worth money. So, I go into this old man in North Chicago Burbs (Archies- I think)... he had a corner shop and it was he and his son. Anyway he looked thru the silver I brought out to him and he bought the peace dollars and then went thru the 90%. He pulled out a AU/BU 1921 SLQ and paid me 25$ for it. At the time I had NO IDEA what it was or what it was worth... I just thought wow 25$ for a quarter... My money situations settled and I was able to do some homework and start to understand what I had... I then realized what had happened. It was the biggest lesson I ever learned in coins.

TireKicker · December 29, 2014 12:56PM

Several Collectors and dealers (can't remember anyone in particular) I have heard say "Buy what you like, don't buy the holder and buy the coins with the most eye appeal." This has been a great rule to follow IMHO

Name the collector and the lesson learned from them...

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