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Is it the old green holder, the Gold CAC sticker or....the coin?
dbldie55
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This 1906 MS65 Liberty Nickel is now bid to $2,200 ($2,585 with the juice). I suspect the color has more to do with the bid than the sticker or the holder. What do you think is the driving force?
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Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
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<< <i>It's at least two of the 6 people who collect those going after the perfect coin for their set >>
+1
That coin is drop dead gorgeous and doesn't need the OGH or sticker! It's a good old fashion auction fight.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's at least two of the 6 people who collect those going after the perfect coin for their set >>
+1
That coin is drop dead gorgeous and doesn't need the OGH or sticker! It's a good old fashion auction fight. >>
ya maybe but the OGH and CAC doesn't hurt.
In this case the bid is still well below the PCGS guide price for MS-66, but well above then MS-65 level, so I suppose it has not become "irrational" yet.
To answer the original question, the green label means something to some people, but the CAC labels mean a lot more. To me the green label says that coin has been in that holder for a long time, and that given proper storeage, it will be stable.
<< <i>What I mean by that is prices that go beyond the next grade. >>
Yes, this has always puzzled me. I was flat out told by someone with a lot of experience that (in this particular case)
MS64 walkers with gold CAC stickers sell for way more than getting them upgraded to 65 holders.
Super Lib nickel, BTW.
Steve
The eye appeal and multiples of generic pricing has moved to many series, other than Commems and Morgan dollars. Especially when the generic price is less than $1000.
10 to 20 times for Sunnywood Morgans, and now up to 5 to 7 times for CBH's.
Why not Lib nickels too? While the OGH and the gold sticker help, it is the originality and beautiful toning that will sell this coin. In fact, if it were to be regraded by PCGS,
it might not grade higher than 65+. But the market will not be tied to the grade.
I am sure someone will tell us the final price.
More than likely the gold sticker is adding the most %. The ogh really doesn't add anything that the gold sticker isn't already doing. A green sticker on this coin and it would bring nowhere near as much money.
75% sticker.......25% color.
Buy the coin, but don't forget about the holder and the sticker while your at it.
"Superb Gem Uncirculated. With a superb, sharp strike and tight satiny mint luster which reveals almost no visible blemishes. With an almost matte finish, the fields are deeply and attractively toned from lavender to gold to blue and sea green. Lovely."
The smart collectors are tightening their standards.
<< <i>Strong bidding..... It's possible that people actually like the coin. >>
That 66 in your set ain't no slouch either . . . Just beaurtiful ! ! !
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>Beautiful coin and it does indeed appear very stable. Its last sale at Teletrade was in 2003, selling for $603 ... >>
Wow have prices really inflated that much in eleven years?
Amat Colligendo Focum
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<< <i>
<< <i>Beautiful coin and it does indeed appear very stable. Its last sale at Teletrade was in 2003, selling for $603 ... >>
Wow have prices really inflated that much in eleven years? >>
Yes. Really nice stuff was cheap in 2002-2003. I figure that in the gem 19th century silver type arena the top 10% of the coins have appreciated anywhere from 3X to 5X. And in a way we're assuming that
those coins in 2003 were really solid or higher end for the grade. Today those same coins are essentially worth upgrade money. If you bought just average looking and available coins back in 2003, you may be
at break even today.....or could even be down. It's always been about quality.
To iterate what others have already said, that is one beautiful nickel!!
Bob
But but its an investment. Ohhhhhh now I think I understand.
There's a hit on the lower lip, just below the chin, and few minor hits in back of the eye. Color is attractive and the image looks better than any of the PC 6s I've seen. I think the high bids are a combination of the attractive color and the OGH as to its stability. I don't stickers mean much on Liberty Nickels; I've seen a handful of them with stickers which imo were not nice coins.
A problem with upgrading the coin is that the OGH vanishes. This coin is basically worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Forget price guides; there aren't many Liberty Nickels with color attractive as this one.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>There is a huge price gap between an 06 in a PC 5 and PC 6 holder (a number of Liberty Nickels are like this). The 06 in a PC 6 holder is a tough coin; I've seen five or six of them and didn't like any of them. The coin is nice, and as Bill Jones wrote, the color on the coin is stable, because it's in an OGH (you'd be surprised how good some coin docs are good at creating attractive color on various coins).
There's a hit on the lower lip, just below the chin, and few minor hits in back of the eye. Color is attractive and the image looks better than any of the PC 6s I've seen. I think the high bids are a combination of the attractive color and the OGH as to its stability. I don't stickers mean much on Liberty Nickels; I've seen a handful of them with stickers which imo were not nice coins.
A problem with upgrading the coin is that the OGH vanishes. This coin is basically worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Forget price guides; there aren't many Liberty Nickels with color attractive as this one. >>
That from a guy that knows his gem Lib nickels. And I agree that a green sticker can be unimportant on these coins......but how can one dismiss the gold sticker as irrelevant, especially since the coin looks nice? Have you seen other gold CAC PCGS MS65 Lib nickels that you didn't like?
I personally do not believe a gold sticker means a lock upgrade. If PCGS thinks it'll upgrade, show me the new holder; rather, that JA will pay more money for it (versus a green sticker).
My main focus, as Bill Jones wrote, is that the OGH tells me that the coin is stable. Others may have a different opinion. I don't think there is a 'right' answer to this issue.
After owning what for me was an expensive coin for 8 years and then have it start develop active PVC in holder, to me the OGH is more important than any sticker. I have seen a good twenty, maybe more, Liberty Nickels in 6 holders with attractive toning which to me looked questionable.
Perhaps the owner of this coin took a flyer on the gold sticker, thinking that this coin might bring more money in the OGH with a gold sticker than in a new generic PC 6 holder (note, more often than not, I have not liked PC 6 Liberty Nickels I have seen in the new holders). There's a week left in this auction. I can see several bidders getting into a pi**ing contest over this coin. Stranger things have happened.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
<< <i>Why such a short bland write up? Doesn't it deserve more? >>
They probably figured it was not that special. Let's face it. If you crack it out, and fails to make MS-66 you are nowhere. The gold CAC sticker is where the value is, and there is not a 100% chance that it will upgrade.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why such a short bland write up? Doesn't it deserve more? >>
They probably figured it was not that special. Let's face it. If you crack it out, and fails to make MS-66 you are nowhere. The gold CAC sticker is where the value is, and there is not a 100% chance that it will upgrade. >>
Not exactly nowhere. Just keep sending it back until it comes back MS66. If JA thought enough of it to give it a goldie, I suspect that the coin qualifies for MS66 standards. But, I agree that there's no such thing as a lock
upgrade. Each submission event is a separate bet and the conditions in the grading room on any particular day are never the same. We are discussing a gold sticker on a MS65 coin. If this were a gold sticker on a 66 I'd say the
odds of an upgrade are far less. That's just life as the numbers go higher and the monetary risks to the TPGs increase. On a toned coin an ogh could be a sign of stability. But, I've owned dipped coins in old holders that were
slowly toning over the years (particularly early NGC coins). I suspect that process will never stop. A deeply toned coin in an old holder is probably a good sign that it's not going to change much. If not already tried this coin
could go in for reconsideration service. If it's nice enough though, it shouldn't matter if it's cracked out either. Another option is an NGC MS66 gold cac. That would still bring big bucks.
Agree with Bill Jones that the most special thing about this coin is the sticker. It's rarer as a gold CAC'd Lib nickel than it probably would be as a PCGS MS66. Only 11 MS "with cents" Lib nickels are gold stickered. Only a single
coin above MS63.....this one. As a comparison there are 32 Barber dimes with 14 specimens gold stickered MS65 and higher. So for those individuals building "gold type" sets, this is the only one....and by far the most costly
MS Lib nickel of those 11. I am surprised to see 19 PCGS MS66's and only 6 NGC MS66's for this date. And PCGS has only graded about 57% more coins. I would not have expected that. CAC has stickered 1331 MS Lib
nickels (with cents) of all dates from MS64-MS67 grades. Out of those 1331 coins, this 1906 is the only goldie. I guess that's worth whatever a bidder thinks it's worth. 19th century nickel type is hard to get gold stickered.
For MS shield nickels there is 1 coin. For MS 3 cent nickels only 2. For no cents MS Lib nickels there are 4.
Gold CAC Lib nickels
But it will cost( likely price realized) more than 66 money, and will need to grade 66+ to accommodate the expected high price.
There are enough small tics, and weakness of strike on the left corn ear to prevent the higher grade(IMO). And if it were to 66,
it might not sticker at that level.
So, lets see a real premium price for a super looking coin, and forget TPG regrading.
I took this position with a similar coin- a CBH in a rattler AU 58 PCGS holder. Paid 63 to 64 money,
and it looks fab. The technical grade will not limit the price, as it should not for this lib nickel.
From the registry perspective, it is a coin with a weight of 1, so the upgrade of 1 point will almost make no difference (0.013 points)
This is in the internet only portion of the sale. Would have been nice to see this go up during the live auction.
Would be a perfect coin for a type set.
<< <i>My guess is that the new owner will leave this coin in the present holder. It can be submitted with a minimum 66 grade, or it will be returned in the OGH.
But it will cost( likely price realized) more than 66 money, and will need to grade 66+ to accommodate the expected high price.
There are enough small tics, and weakness of strike on the left corn ear to prevent the higher grade(IMO). And if it were to 66,
it might not sticker at that level.
So, lets see a real premium price for a super looking coin, and forget TPG regrading.
I took this position with a similar coin- a CBH in a rattler AU 58 PCGS holder. Paid 63 to 64 money,
and it looks fab. The technical grade will not limit the price, as it should not for this lib nickel. >>
How could it not sticker at the next level if it gold stickered at the lower grade down? Isn't that the very definition of the gold sticker? If one photographed this coin in the ogh prior to resubmission to PCGS and later got the upgrade to 66, I don't see how CAC could not sticker (photo and other documentation attached to prove it was the same gold stickered coin seen before). If CAC is playing the gold sticker game, I don't see how they can change the rules in mid-stream. If they do, they might as well be saying our gold stickers don't really mean we think it's solid for the next grade up. PCGS doesn't have to upgrade a gold sticker coin. But, in my mind CAC has to green sticker a gold sticker upgrade if the coin is unchanged and untampered with....and the chain of custody is properly documented. Agreed that the coin is far from perfect with a few tiny ticks and less than a perfect strike....most Lib nickels in 65/66 grades have the same issues.
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My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
And as RR mentioned, PC 7s in this series are very scarce, expensive, and almost impossible to make. If one of them had a gold sticker, you are probably throwing your money away trying to upgrade the coin. Dale has seen / owned more 7s than I have, so I defer to his judgement on Liberty Nickels in that grade.
I'd leave the coin as is.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I have now looked again at JA's site, and I can find no information to be able to conclude that a gold sticker on a coin will insure that if it upgrades a point at PC or NG, (MS 65 to 66),
it will automatically be green beaned at that grade. A B and C mean high end for grade, solid for grade, and low end for grade. What does Gold mean? A coin that JA thinks is undergraded, ie, next grade.
But no where is there any indication that when JA evaluates the coin in a 66 holder, he will say-A or B. It could be low end for 66.
I am no expert on CAC, but direct us to the language/actual results, that indicate your statement.
ElContador- I have found very few Lib nickels in 67 that I like. Off the top of my head, the 1885 from my old set, the 1902 that is a 67+, and maybe 2 more( out of the 20 odd graded). I heard that the 1885 was sent in for regrade recently and it did not go up- plus or 68. If there is a 68 to be made, this coin would be the one I would pick.
I hear you on the difficulty in finding solid for grade MS 66's. It takes a 66+ for me to get excited about a MS 66 lib nickel today.
Tahoedale, CAC makes no guarantees or assurances just a well respected opinion.
<< <i>Brian,
I have now looked again at JA's site, and I can find no information to be able to conclude that a gold sticker on a coin will insure that if it upgrades a point at PC or NG, (MS 65 to 66),
it will automatically be green beaned at that grade. A B and C mean high end for grade, solid for grade, and low end for grade. What does Gold mean? A coin that JA thinks is undergraded, ie, next grade.
But no where is there any indication that when JA evaluates the coin in a 66 holder, he will say-A or B. It could be low end for 66. I am no expert on CAC, but direct us to the language/actual results, that indicate your statement. >>
TD, of course JA can't guarantee an upgrade with a gold sticker at PCGS or NGC. But what I would expect JA to 100% guarantee is if that if a gold stickered coin DOES upgrade to MS66 at either service, that he honors that orig gold sticker with a green bean on the upgraded holder. And of course that assumes that coin is not altered, screwed worth, or dropped on the floor while the coin is out of the original holder. I'm sure that's not in writing anywhere. But that's common sense to me and good business practice. It doesn't matter one bit what JA would pay for such a coin in either configuration...that's his business alone. He might only want to offer MS65+ money for the coin. Price or market value is not what I'm debating here. But if he didn't honor the actual sticker on an upgrade, I'd be both shocked and disappointed. No, I don't expect JA to write down every plausible situation with stickering. But, I do expect fairness. CAC would shoot themselves in the foot imo if a goldie upgrade wasn't green beaned for a very good reason. And short of damage or alteration in the upgrade process, I can't think of anything. Maybe I'm a dreamer. I sold all my goldie golds to Oreville back in 2009 (3 or 4 of them)....now that was dumb. I had no clue what they could be someday. Way to go Oreville.
That's where I stand. You're the proud owner of such a gold stickered coin and you go and get it upgraded. Do you or don't you expect it to be beaned in that new holder? Tell me what YOU think and EXPECT, not what may or may not be written in writing somewhere at CAC. The TPG's have very vague policies on numerous controversial grading topics. I don't expect it to all be in writing. They have to have room to maneuver and change with the times. But I expect them to do the right thing the vast majority of the time.
If there is someone with a gold stickered coin that upgraded, and failed to resticker on resubmission to CAC, please chime in.
I understand your position. It makes sense, and that many gold stickered coins will be at least solid for the next grade, if they do upgrade a point(or more, as Oreville noted).
But you are the author of many posts, detailing how grading is very subjective, and that on any given day, a grade might be a point off, depending on many factors.
Even JA says that a coin that did not sticker on one submission could sticker at a later time. ( I have experience with this situation when my MS Barber halves went to sale). I too would like to know
of others experience.
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For me it is all of the above.
Mike
Had there been NO coin inside a perfectly sealed slab it might have been worth even more!!
<< <i>Brian,
I understand your position. It makes sense, and that many gold stickered coins will be at least solid for the next grade, if they do upgrade a point(or more, as Oreville noted).
But you are the author of many posts, detailing how grading is very subjective, and that on any given day, a grade might be a point off, depending on many factors.
Even JA says that a coin that did not sticker on one submission could sticker at a later time. ( I have experience with this situation when my MS Barber halves went to sale). I too would like to know
of others experience. >>
A coin not passing the first time and getting a bean on a second trip does not happen very often.
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SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>Here is an example of a gold stickered Liberty Head Nickel that gets most of its value from the slab itself and not the gold sticker or the coin!
Had there been NO coin inside a perfectly sealed slab it might have been worth even more!!
I like this coin (and the holder)