Negative dealer threads...

njcoincrank · July 21, 2014 4:54AM

Anybody besides me, a full time dealer, sick and tired about all the negative dealer treads?

njcc

Boosibri · July 21, 2014 4:55AM

Absolutely tired of them

PerryHall · July 21, 2014 4:58AM

<< Anybody besides me, a full time dealer, sick and tired about all the negative dealer treads?

njcc >>

Are you also sick of the many "why dealers drink" and similar threads where dealers bash their customers? Maybe we should stop ALL of the bashing here.

CoinCast · July 21, 2014 4:59AM

They are rather irritating.

njcoincrank · July 21, 2014 5:00AM

Agreed...

Lets all pledge to make this forum a no bashing one.

I'm in.

njcc

lcoopie · July 21, 2014 5:00AM

I prefer the good dealer threads by a huge margin

TommyType · July 21, 2014 5:03AM

I think it's just "water cooler chat", and there's nothing to be offended about. (Both the dealer and collector threads).

"This happened to me once...."

No big deal.

Now, if they degrade into "All dealers are scum", or "All collectors are ignorant fools", then we may need to rethink our focus....

PQueue · July 21, 2014 5:06AM

Does this include ebay sellers / dealers?

Good luck trying to stamp those threads out.

Amigo · July 21, 2014 5:13AM

Now, if they degrade into "All dealers are scum", or "All collectors are ignorant fools", then we may need to rethink our focus....

+ 1

I enjoy reading about real life experiences from Dealers/Collectors rather they be negative or positive. It's all entertaining with a big component of educational.

Anyone that wants to live their life in an "Always On" political correct environment can kiss my .... well, let's just say it's often smelly

guitarwes · July 21, 2014 5:17AM

Not taking either side, but there's always two sides to every story. The person posting about having a bad experience with a dealer sometimes doesn't share the entire story of why the dealer acted in such a manner, most likely brought on by a bad attitude by the customer. They just "happen" to leave that little part of the story out.

And I ain't saying dealers are perfect either.

BryceM · July 21, 2014 5:21AM

....... tired of negativity in general, both ways.

telephoto1 · July 21, 2014 5:31AM

<< Not taking either side, but there's always two sides to every story. The person posting about having a bad experience with a dealer sometimes doesn't share the entire story of why the dealer acted in such a manner, most likely brought on by a bad attitude by the customer. They just "happen" to leave that little part of the story out.

And I ain't saying dealers are perfect either. >>

This, and this.

rkfish · July 21, 2014 5:34AM

Not taking either side, but there's always two sides to every story

really there are three sides........yours/mine/and the truth.

csdot · July 21, 2014 5:34AM

Can't say I pay much attention either way.

PTVETTER · July 21, 2014 5:38AM

I kinda like seeing them (both sides)

Some are just a bunch of BS and others have some merit.

It can be used as a learning tool.

TPRC · July 21, 2014 5:39AM

<< Agreed...

Lets all pledge to make this forum a no bashing one.

I'm in.

njcc >>

I don't know if I agree with this. I enjoyed most of the "unpleasant dealer/coin show encounter" thread which may have caused caused you to post the instant thread. Of course, true dealer bashing is really not a good idea here. There are rules and your suggestion does seem to be required of the rules as follows:

Rule 3) Anyone attacking another poster or making disparaging personal remarks will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.

Rule 4) Anyone making libelous remarks concerning any individual, any company, or any other entity will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.

Still, I enjoy hearing stories of pleasant and unpleasant encounters with dealers. I, too, have had some interactions with a few dealers who I considered unfair, unreasonable, or unscrupulous. Most of these I do not share except among friends, but there are dealers who I would feel compelled to tell a friend not to deal with. Unfortunately, I think most everyone on this forum has dealt with an unscruplous dealer along the way. When I hear some of these stories, it helps me know I'm not crazy. And I would be pleased to call you out, Bill, as one of the best eye's in the business, someone who has helped me immensely to hone my skills in the ANAs' Advanced Grading classes and someone who always is courteous and helpful.....even if you haven't asked for it and even though you probably don't even know me. My point is that being able to distinguish the good from the not so good, even within this forum is generally helpful to forumites. All within reason, of course.

nwcoast · July 21, 2014 5:42AM

<< ....... tired of negativity in general, both ways. >>

+1

telephoto1 · July 21, 2014 5:50AM

All I can say is that our hosts have been very accommodating concerning Rule 3 of late.

DaveW · July 21, 2014 5:57AM

We all need to have thicker skin dealers/collectors and everyone else no one is perfect

Unknown · July 21, 2014 5:59AM

This content has been removed.

TommyType · July 21, 2014 6:00AM

<< I enjoy reading about dumb people on both sides of the transaction.

>>

...And as long as nobody identifies me.....I mean, er, the person in question....then why should anyone be offended?

SeattleSlammer · July 21, 2014 6:04AM

Zoins · July 21, 2014 6:09AM

I think I may have missed some threads or just glossed over them.

I'm all for objective threads but not bashing ones.

ms70 · July 21, 2014 6:21AM

Like anything else there's checks and balances. Maybe the good dealers need to hear what's going on that affects their customers views and police their fellow bad dealers.

Tibor · July 21, 2014 6:31AM

I agree with DaveW about the thicker skin. I enjoy this
forum for the sharing of pictures and knowledge.

Yorkshireman · July 21, 2014 6:33AM

No more bashing is a great idea!

Kaline6 · July 21, 2014 6:33AM

I usually enjoy reading these threads. When they get nasty, it's just an opportunity to learn who lurks behind the avatars, good to file away for the future.

I certainly enjoy Capt. Henway's "Why Dealers Drink" posts and would miss them if they left.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 21, 2014 6:33AM

Just remember , there is always "online" where people can bash and hate from the comfort and privacy of their own smartphone.

telephoto1 · July 21, 2014 6:37AM

<< Like anything else there's checks and balances. Maybe the good dealers need to hear what's going on that affects their customers views and police their fellow bad dealers. >>

Interesting notion, but I am curious... Who would be the arbiter of what constitutes a "bad" dealer (over and above ANA and/or PNG standards currently in place, which frankly are sparsely enforced at best, and are meaningless to non members anyway)? And how exactly would we as fellow dealers tell other dealers how they should run their own businesses? Further, what similar 'checks and balances' could there be on the other side of the table...?

Oh, and OT, side note... awesome CC twenty cent avatar pic. Love the color. Yours?

PerryHall · July 21, 2014 6:58AM

<< Like anything else there's checks and balances. Maybe the good dealers need to hear what's going on that affects their customers views and police their fellow bad dealers. >>

BillJones · July 21, 2014 7:01AM

<< Anybody besides me, a full time dealer, sick and tired about all the negative dealer treads?

njcc >>

Some dealers are bad people, and you as a dealer should want to root them out of your profession. I am a retired dealer, and I have no use for crooks.

njcoincrank · July 21, 2014 7:07AM

I give up. Y'all win.

Bash away...

njcc

BigMoose · July 21, 2014 7:17AM

If you ever get the chance, spend some time behind the cases with a dealer friend of yours at a large show. I guarantee you it will be a very enlightening experience. You will get to see firsthand some of the bullcrap that these fellows have to deal with on a regular basis.

Barberian · July 21, 2014 7:18AM

These boards are for sharing knowledge and experiences in the hobby, both good and bad. I see nothing wrong with posts about negative experiences so long as posters realize these are rare and it can cut both ways. Just like one will find in any business, most of the coin dealers I've encountered have been excellent, while a few have been jerks or even unethical crooks. Sometimes I'm to blame for creating an unpleasant situation, like arguing over a dealer's grading when all we really have to agree upon is the price. I try to be honest with myself and apologize when I should do so. Most times dealers have been very patient and I've left their booth pleased with my transaction, or better informed after a discussion on some aspect of collecting. However, it's hard to just dismiss those rare incidences when you've been screwed by some jerk or have watched others (usually relatives of deceased persons) being screwed by some ridiculous low-ball offer. They should be a part of the discussion here as well.

ms70 · July 21, 2014 7:19AM

<< 

<< Like anything else there's checks and balances. Maybe the good dealers need to hear what's going on that affects their customers views and police their fellow bad dealers. >>

Interesting notion, but I am curious... Who would be the arbiter of what constitutes a "bad" dealer (over and above ANA and/or PNG standards currently in place, which frankly are sparsely enforced at best, and are meaningless to non members anyway)? And how exactly would we as fellow dealers tell other dealers how they should run their own businesses? Further, what similar 'checks and balances' could there be on the other side of the table...?

Oh, and OT, side note... awesome CC twenty cent avatar pic. Love the color. Yours? >>

I think everyone can decide for themselves what's good & bad. And how dealers police their own is up to them to decide. For the other side of the table? There are jerks in life,
period. No doubt about it. But I'm sure the vast number of the jerky ones outweigh the nice ones, just the same as good dealers outweigh the bad ones.

And side note... No.

mdwoods · July 21, 2014 7:23AM

I think I see a lot more threads about good dealers than bad dealers. At least when the dealers are identified by name. Maybe I just don't read the bashing threads that much.

Catbert · July 21, 2014 7:27AM

After a big show, there tends to be several threads about a show from a collector's standpoint and their positive experiences with various dealers. Hopefully, that provides some balance to these bashing threads of late.

As with most things in life, the negative sadly gets emphasized much more than the positive. Even when I think about my work experiences, the culture rarely reinforces an approach of "catching people doing things right" vs. the opposite.

Barberian · July 21, 2014 7:29AM

I'd also like to add that the interactions and transactions I've had with dealers and collectors here have all been 100% excellent! All have been conducted with the highest level of friendliness, integrity, and trust.

pennyannie · July 21, 2014 7:42AM

Most of the time you can figure out what the thread is about by reading the title. If you do not like the dealer stories, issues you can skip the thread. There are some bad dealers out there and you do not see anyone take them on often. Legend does plenty of dealer bashing without naming names. PCGS went after a few a few years back, but by and large bad dealer stay in business or just change the name from time to time and start a new trail of disaster.

There are plenty of bad collectors out there but by and large the bad dealers outweigh the bad collectors. There are dealers that have sold customer coins on consignment that never send a check or drag there feet. ( roadrunner had this issue and plenty others) Other than being a pain in the rear a collector has a harder time ripping a actual dealer than the dealer ripping the collector.

Elcontador · July 21, 2014 7:47AM

Not to split hairs, but I think there is a difference between a dealer who is out and out rude, versus one who is civil but charges obscene prices for his / her wares. The former I have no use for under any circumstances. I would not consider the latter to be bad dealers, but I would not buy anything from them.

I have three negative experiences with dealers whom have either lied to me or been very rude, in the nearly fifty years I have collected coins.

But I can name you a handful of dealers whom I think routinely charge what I think is obscene money for their coins, and will not do buy any coins from them for that reason. I might sell a coin to a member of the latter category, if the price is right, however. A number of forum members swear by some people I place in the latter category.

LindeDad · July 21, 2014 8:36AM

I really enjoy the candies my dealer adds to packages.

keets · July 21, 2014 8:59AM

it is a fact of life and a fact of this forum that some people choose to dwell on negative things and some members are stuck on their belief that dealers are just bad as a group. nothing will change their opinion.

michiganboy · July 21, 2014 9:19AM

<< I enjoy reading about dumb people on both sides of the transaction.

>>

This is my take as well, I like just reading funny stuff online. Most of the time a good story is worth the read no matter what side of the register the person is on. I have quite a few dealers I really like and also have quite a few collectors I know I really like. To me the one offs are just for sake of reading the mishaps of an industry. BTW I love the why coin dealers drink threads they are usually very funny to me and I'm just a lowly collector at best.

I say carry on and keep the skin thick around these parts. Its something veterans off all hobby forums seem to say.

Catbert · July 21, 2014 9:22AM

Hey Michiganboy - I haven't seen one of your "buying raw proofs in the wild" threads where the criticism flows freely about your purchases. What's up?

michiganboy · July 21, 2014 9:26AM

<< Hey Michiganboy - I haven't seen one of your "buying raw proofs in the wild" threads where the criticism flows freely about your purchases. What's up?

>>

Been busy buying guns.

I have to bounce around hobbies to stay interested. Also the well dried up as of lately on raw proofs in the wild and/or goldeneyenumismatics keeps finding them first

. I still read here quite a bit, just hanging on the sidelines is fine sometimes for me. I rarely even have much to comment unless I think its useful. BTW thanks for thinking of me it makes me feel welcome and warm and fuzzy to not be forgotten.

Cougar1978 · July 21, 2014 9:53AM

Yes I am sick and tired of seeing the dealer bashing and wonder if these people have too much time on their hands, especially the ones bashing online (ebay) sellers. If they don't like the seller or the item / price, I would recommend they shop around. One thing I have found on the bourse is the people who have money or material to sell don't go around bashing dealers. They are excited about looking at coins and currency and doing some business.

When I am set up at a show and the dealer bashing starts, its time for them to leave.

stman · July 21, 2014 10:57AM

<< Anybody besides me, a full time dealer, sick and tired about all the negative dealer treads? >>

Well actually yes. But probably for a different reason then why the dealers get tired of them. I get tired of them because collectors can't/won't name names when they've been taken or mistreated by dealers. It doesn't help us know who to avoid. I can understand the dealers don't like their industry to look bad, but....... it is what it is and can only help us low-life collectors learn what situations to avoid since we can't find out who the offenders are for liability reasons. so I say.........

scotty1419 · July 21, 2014 11:21AM

How boring would this place be without a few good stories?

Baley · July 21, 2014 11:42AM

This forum is like the Yelp of the coin industry.... should contributors to that site stop "bashing" hotels and restaurants?

IMO, the "good ones" need not worry, and might even benefit when people share negative experiences with the competition

breakdown · July 21, 2014 11:52AM

I respectfully disagree with Bill Jones -- I don't see how general dealer bashing threads do much but encourage people to provide bad experiences with unnamed dealers. All this does is perpetuate stereotypes and sow mistrust.

Figuring out the dealers you can deal with and the ones you cannot is a big more of the learning curve of becoming a collector. You won't figure it out by reading a public forum. Better to focus on the good experiences and name names of the good dealers.

keets · July 21, 2014 11:53AM

I get tired of them because collectors can't/won't name names when they've been taken or mistreated by dealers. It doesn't help us know who to avoid.

they probably don't name names because they can't remember who the dealers are or what the firm is. most of the stories tend to be from smaller shows/about smaller dealers or are the type of "urban Legend" story about a friend of a friend, etc. also, I firmly believe that much of the hatred towards dealers stems from incidents early in a collectors life before they are armed with much knowledge, then the "sting" of learning what happened takes hold and never really leaves. additionally, knowing who a dealer is probably wouldn't help you or me since the odds of us ever encountering that dealer are slim. we each seem to know who the sour apples are in our own locales.

Negative dealer threads...

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