Dreaded DNC (Did not cross)

Bochiman · October 21, 2013 4:08PM

So, with GEN/No Grades (raw), you get a reason why it didn't slab/grade with PCGS.

However, unless I am missing something right in front of me, you don't get to see a reason why it didn't cross.
When they send the original slab back (say, NGC, for purposes of an example), you get the slabbed coin (original holder still), a flip with a sticker on it, and another sticker on top of that (this one is what looks like an insert with the coins info but a big DID NOT CROSS where the grade/designation would be).

Under that sticker, on the first one on the flip, is more info (still no grade nor reason for not slabbing...that I can tell).

My exact example:

NGC PR65BN IHC

I wanted same grade, so I put "CURRENT" on what was acceptable. My risk, I realize that. It is toned, so I don't want to crack it out to grade....it's a seriously nice (IMHO) example of a toned IHC proof and I want to make sure it stays slabbed/protected while I have it.
It is a DNC. On the first sticker on the slab, you can make out that it has "PR RB", so it sounds like PCGS agreed with me that it is RB and not BN, but I can't tell if the only issue may be they think it is PR64RB instead of PR65 (RB/BN) or if there is something else....

Another coin that DNC was an AU55 SLH. On the under-sticker, it looks like a MS on there (I don't think it is MS, so it could just be that for that series, all come in under MS unless PR, even if circulated). Nothing that looks like any reason though (QT/Tooled/Cleaned/etc).

So, just wonder if anyone knows. I prefer not to call and bother PCGS, even if they would deign to tell me, but if there is something that I am missing that can help me decode it, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Boosibri · October 21, 2013 7:30PM

In my experience is a coin has problems they are noted on the flip attached to your coin. For example, it might say "Questionable Color" or "Cleaned". The fact that it just said "DNC" means to me that they did not agree or could not confirm the grade to their level of satisfaction through the other TPG holder.

crypto79 · October 21, 2013 9:56PM

If you really want it in PCGS plastic the only real way to do it is buy them in the plastic. If you collecting goals don't support that then I suggest you do what I do and cross at any grade. Even then I had to crack a few boarder Line coins to get them to grade. PCGS is admittedly conservative on crossing and the odds are not in your favor unless the coin is a slam dunk.

BillJones · October 21, 2013 10:22PM

I agree with the previous post. If you want the coin in a PCGS holder, buy it in a PCGS holder. I will go further. If you want to cross, crack it out and send it in raw. My perception is if you send it in housed in another company's holder, you have two strikes against you from the outset.

Nickcap · October 21, 2013 11:06PM

On Crossover if you get a plain "DNC" most likely tye coin didn't meet the minimum grade you put on the submission form.

if it did not cross for another reason, PCGS usually will tell you why.

I had one DNC and on a white label someone wrote in pen that the coin had Environmental Damage. The white label was placed on the holder. Then the cert printed saying Environmental Damage was attached using a rubber band. So if you didn't get that, it is probably the minimum grade requested.

magikbilly · October 21, 2013 11:13PM

If they did tell you why - would you still be inclined to resubmit it?

Eric

WingedLiberty1957 · October 21, 2013 11:20PM

There will be a 2 digit code on the DNC label ...

something like 91 or 95 etc

This table shows the meaning

PCGS Numeric Codes

shorecoll · October 21, 2013 11:29PM

I'm in the Crypto and Bill camp. I'm guessing either grade (95%) or uncertainty that the toning was original (5%). The graders weren't sure the toning was funky, but not sure it wasn't, so they wouldn't call it through the slab.

TireKicker · October 21, 2013 11:31PM

Bochiman,

Good info here and I am sorry your coin did not cross

fastfreddie · October 21, 2013 11:38PM

<< <i>On Crossover if you get a plain "DNC" most likely tye coin didn't meet the minimum grade you put on the submission form.

if it did not cross for another reason, PCGS usually will tell you why. >>

+1

TwoSides2aCoin · October 21, 2013 11:40PM

I like their service. And the only thing I can say is that they're very picky sometimes and it is confusing to me.
Oddly, I like them for the same reason I don't like them, too.

Bochiman · October 22, 2013 3:47AM

* "If you want it in PCGS, buy it already in PCGS".
Agreed....however, I bought the coins because I liked them and I will keep them whether they are PCGS or not. I *would* like them in PCGS, but it isn't the end of the world for me, with these coins, if they are not. I appreciate that advice, but it had nothing to do with the question I asked

* "There is a 2 digit code that will correlate to the reason"
Nope. That is for raw coins. I do more of those and not many crossovers. That was the first thing I looked for on the sticker, and paperwork. I hadn't tried a crossover in a LONG time so wasn't sure if something changed. There is no discernible 2 digit code to be found.

* "Just says DNC so it is likely the grade and not something else"
Given that, in the past, I have found 65 and 66 grades hard to cross for IHCs, that was my first inclination as well. However, another attempted crossover, has a small disturbance in the field that I hadn't noticed before. Makes me wonder if that was 'ok' with the graders and it was a part of the grade reason, or if that was the reason as I think the grade should have been ok...."

* "If they did tell you why - would you still be inclined to resubmit it?"
Maybe not for 'all' of them (not many), but it would give me something to consider on 1 or 2 of them. The answer is quite potentially "yes". For instance, with the example I gave in the OP with the PR IHC. It is currently NGC PF65BN. If the reason it didn't cross is because PCGS feels it is PR64RB, then, yes, I may do that; whereas I would be a lot less inclined if they thought it was PR64BN.

Nickcap - thanks. That is kind of what I was wondering as I know that is what is still done with the raw submissions but wasn't sure about crossovers. I was kind of hoping there would be a grade on the sticker that they thought it was, but, alas, not to be.

Thanks everyone, for the replies. As I stated above....I already believe that "if you absolutely 'need' the coin in PCGS, to buy it that way", but I also believe in buying the coin for the coin. Getting it into PCGS plastic is just my preference but isn't a deal killer.

Dave99B · March 12, 2014 2:37PM

Hi Ron,

Dang, I agree, I'd like a reason for any DNC.

I just attempted my first cross; all eight coins were better date Barber Halves and Quarters, in 20 year old ANACS slabs. Of the lot, 7 of 8 crossed. A total of 6 crossed at the same ANACS grade (VF20 or 30), which was nice, even though I listed a minimum grade of VF20 on all of the coins. All were nice examples...really choice, original ANACS coins.

One coin DNC-ed, which was in a VF30 ANACS plastic. I thought it was the nicest coin of the lot, frankly. I'm very interested to see if they indicate why (coins just shipped out today). I'll report back when I do. I can't imagine it was because it didn't grade at least VF20. Anyway, overall I was quite pleased. Again, will check back later.

Take care,
Dave

mkman123 · March 12, 2014 2:38PM

Just get a cac sticker and you'll be just fine

19Lyds · March 12, 2014 2:58PM

IMO, crossover coins are like saying to PCGS: Give me a reason why this coin should NOT be on your slab at this Grade?

(Norman says so as well!)

Which is why I do not cross at grade but if I want it crossed I always specify ANY.

mercurydimeguy · March 12, 2014 10:16PM

I'm 6 for 6 on cross-overs this year so far, and one of them upgraded (first time ever for me on a crossover submission).

I'm starting to understand how to cross a little better, but to be fair there will always be exceptions (which we should not focus on here because we can spend a lot of time discussing one-off situations/isolated opinions). So without focusing on exceptions...

In the past, coins that I had sent in to PCGS "hoping" they would cross, rarely crossed.

- If you want to cross it to PCGS, you should send in with ANY. See if it crosses first.

- If it doesn't cross at ANY, you have a coin PCGS deems to be a problem (color or cleaning or etc.)...sorry

- If it crosses, but not at the previous TPG grade, you can send it in for a regrade afterwards. This eliminates the "they are biased by other TPG plastic" and also eliminates "it's hard to grade a coin through a TPG holder, it's better to have it raw" excuses, because at PCGS regrades are cracked and graded raw and the grader doesn't know if the coin was previously graded or not...it's in a flip just like any ordinary raw submission. If the coin comes back at a higher grade, well then the TPG plastic hindered original grading/cross-over and it took you two trips/grading fees to get the coin at the previous TPG grade into the same grade PCGS holder.

- If on a regrade attempt it comes back at the same PCGS grade as you sent it in, then you know better that what they see is what they see, and they see it differently.

The disappointment in cross-overs primarily comes into play when a submitter submits a coin for cross-over that they want PCGS to see as they see. Let's say a coin is in a 65 holder, you want PCGS to see it as a 65 and they might not. They might see it as a 64. Each TPG does grades a little different. That's not PCGS's fault. A submitter must first learn how PCGS would grade the coin, not how the coin is currently graded by a TPG and see if PCGS agrees.

That was my "A HA"!!! My rate of success went up dramatically when I stopped sending in coins to "see if PCGS agrees with the currently assigned grade." That is not what they do and they don't think of it that way. They view each coin as a new coin to grade. So sending in a coin for cross-over is no different than sending in a coin for grading, it's just not in a thin flip where they can take it out and hold it.

My advice...in your mind don't think about it as sending in a coin for cross-over (e.g. even though you check off the "cross-over" grading box on the form), in your mind think of it as sending in a coin for grading. This will force you to look at other TPG plastic very differently. Essentially you will be looking at the coin as a raw coin, and then the non-PCGS TPG plastic that the coin is in only becomes useful to help you establish/negotiate price.

Hope this helps...just my 10 cents

/mdg.

Dreaded DNC (Did not cross)

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