PQ Approve-- post your PQ Approved coins here!

RYK · January 20, 2014 12:30AM

I have been away for a little while, and it has come to my attention that there is a new stickering service in operation, apparently announced in the last week or two, PQ Approved.

In light of my previous thread in December on the issue, I must apologize to the Stupplers for my ill-fated thread. Of course, at the time, there was no public information on the PQ Approved sticker service.

I would also wish them the best of luck with the new service. I think that competition in the market is generally a positive, and I am excited to see how this plays out.

ricko · January 20, 2014 12:34AM

Should be interesting to watch. Will collectors/dealers now promote their coins as both PQ/CAC approved??? Obviously two are better than one....is this still fourth tier or does it become fifth tier??? From their site it appears they will NOT be approving coins that have what often are considered minting issues (i.e. strike throughs, carbon spots etc) which would put their approved coins at a higher level than other services. Inquiring minds want to know......Cheers, RickO

Greeniejr · January 20, 2014 12:40AM

Just to cut certain things off before they become an issue, Barry did post on CCE that he will be making a market in PQ approved coins and publishing bids. How high these bids are remains to be seen but this seems not too different than how things were when CAC started. At this point I am neutral on the issue.

Sonorandesertrat · January 20, 2014 12:50AM

I will also watch with interest....from the sidelines, but not as an active player. I buy coins raw, in slabs, with and without CAC or PS stickers. As a collector, I see no need to rush out and have my 'keepers' entombed in a particular plastic with assorted embellishments. I will wait until I am ready to sell, and then see what the smart move appears to be. Ain't marketing in this hobby great?

keyman64 · January 20, 2014 12:51AM

morbidsteve · January 20, 2014 12:54AM

I'm not surprised that this is happening. There's money in it because people will want the sticker. It will bring at least some more money for coins with it I'm sure.

Steve

astrorat · January 20, 2014 12:54AM

Interesting ...

I need to submit my Eagle Eye stickered Indian cent to CAC and then to PQ. It will be the battle of the slab label real estate.

Best of luck to Barry.

Edited to add ...

With the ubiquitous use of PQ by dealers and collectors and that "PQ" stickers have been put on coins before, it's interesting that Barry and Co. decided to go with "PQ" instead of something unique. I bet there will be an increase in generic "PQ" stickers on coins. At least when something has a CAC sticker, there is no doubt as to the sticker's origin.

rec78 · January 20, 2014 1:02AM

Is it really just competition, or could it be also an addition? I would suppose that a coin that already has a CAC sticker could also be awarded a PQ sticker or vice versa. Then a coin graded MS65+ with a CAC sticker AND a PQ sticker would possibly be worth more than an MS66 with no stickers. The field is too muddied already. Another sticker will just add to the confusion.

Oh where, Oh where, does it all end?

Bob

BryceM · January 20, 2014 1:03AM

Hmmmm. Interesting. Looks like they're going all out. Funny it hasn't really been advertised yet.

I checked the cert number of a coin I bought from them in their new cert look-up. Sure enough, there it was. No trumpets or drums, just an "Approved!" message. Nothing shows up in their pop report yet though.

I tend to see competition as a good thing. Without NGC, our host wouldn't have as much incentive to stay on top of the game. It will be fun to see how this plays out. The key to making this relevant is to keep on top of the database and to provide some sort of buyback / market guarantee. Without that, it's just another sticker. Hopefully, at the end of the day, the attention all comes back to the little round thing inside the holder.

I'll tell you one thing though. It's mighty hard to get the sticker off, especially in one piece.

tradedollarnut · January 20, 2014 1:11AM

IMO, it will fail because it cannot be copyrighted. The term has been around the hobby forever. Any initial success will be met with knockoffs.

Author1 · January 20, 2014 1:14AM

<< IMO, it will fail because it cannot be copyrighted. The term has been around the hobby forever. Any initial success will be met with knockoffs. >>

PS - SCI can be copyrighted

Goldbully · January 20, 2014 1:18AM

Never saw this coming......CAC has competition!

nags · January 20, 2014 1:23AM

<< IMO, it will fail because it cannot be copyrighted. The term has been around the hobby forever. Any initial success will be met with knockoffs. >>

I believe that the sticker design could be copyrighted, but I agree that the "PQ" could not.

tradedollarnut · January 20, 2014 1:24AM

<< 

<< IMO, it will fail because it cannot be copyrighted. The term has been around the hobby forever. Any initial success will be met with knockoffs. >>

PS - SCI can be copyrighted >>

I have no idea what you are trying to say

ElmerFusterpuck · January 20, 2014 1:26AM

I guess he would have to use PQ or something else, I don't think he'd want to use his initials on the sticker (BS).

PQ approved or BS approved, hmmm. Think PQ has a better ring. I guess we'll see what develops here.

indeetlib · January 20, 2014 1:30AM

<< 

<< 

<< IMO, it will fail because it cannot be copyrighted. The term has been around the hobby forever. Any initial success will be met with knockoffs. >>

PS - SCI can be copyrighted >>

I have no idea what you are trying to say >>

I think they're referring to the "SCI" in the background of the sticker. While, sure, the sticker design can be copyrighted, I'm not sure that's of major concern to their business. The brand is more about the credibility of the people doing the stickering and supporting the market for the stickered coins as opposed to the name of the company or look of the sticker. I don't think knockoffs would be of any threat as a quick cert look up would determine what's legit.

Author1 · January 20, 2014 1:36AM

I think its great for CAC to have competition just like PCGS and NGC.

Kinda like buyers fees have gone down with competition between SB, HA, LM etc.....Wait a min that does fit.

tradedollarnut · January 20, 2014 1:37AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< IMO, it will fail because it cannot be copyrighted. The term has been around the hobby forever. Any initial success will be met with knockoffs. >>

PS - SCI can be copyrighted >>

I have no idea what you are trying to say >>

I think they're referring to the "SCI" in the background of the sticker. While, sure, the sticker design can be copyrighted, I'm not sure that's of major concern to their business. The brand is more about the credibility of the people doing the stickering and supporting the market for the stickered coins as opposed to the name of the company or look of the sticker. I don't think knockoffs would be of any threat as a quick cert look up would determine what's legit. >>

Oh. I thought it was a show on the sci Fi channel - or maybe a poli sci course at college

lcoopie · January 20, 2014 1:48AM

interesting

I didn't notice their responsibility if a problem is discovered later

braddick · January 20, 2014 1:52AM

I would only suggest when the form is filled out there is an acknowledgment it was properly done so.
As it is, when 'SEND' is clicked a fresh, blank new form appears giving pause that perhaps it was not done correctly the first time.

Otherwise, good luck with this endeavor! The criteria looks extremely strict for successful sticking.

BAJJERFAN · January 20, 2014 2:00AM

Gives a whole new meaning to "STICKER SHOCK"!!

mkman123 · January 20, 2014 2:14AM

nice website layout and they even show cac coins that wouldn't get a PQ sticker. This is interesting to see what happens.....

ThePennyLady · January 20, 2014 2:29AM

I wish them success. But I think PQ is too generic to be copyrighted. Also, as was already mentioned, PQ has been used in this industry for years. As a matter of fact, about 10 years ago, I had custom "PQ!" stickers made and still use them on my inventory coins that I feel are above average for the grade, so there will be too many people with "first use" rights.

ColonelJessup · January 20, 2014 2:29AM

I'm amused by all the smarm about Roll Over, Beethoven, um, excuse me...Move Over CAC, fifth tier, ninth wave, etc.

I've known Barry for 30+ years. Great businessman, cares about win/win, former ANA President. His son David was too sharp for Advanced Grading at his first time through Summer Seminar a few years ago.

Translation: this is not a fly-by-night hustle. Clearly limited plan with clear intent to offer customers a credible investment vehicle.

Maybe they like Saints and Lib 20's JA doesn't as well as vice versa They are solid enough to make a solid 2-way market in what they like. They know how to hedge. I don't what their current standards for DMPL or S-Mint Walkers in MS66+ without thumbs might be.

AnkurJ · January 20, 2014 2:37AM

Very interesting indeed!
I'm not familiar with their chief grader. That being said I'm surprised it took this long for a copycat company to enter the scene

astrorat · January 20, 2014 2:41AM

<< Very interesting indeed!
I'm not familiar with their chief grader. That being said I'm surprised it took this long for a copycat company to enter the scene >>

Um ... do you really think the idea of stickering a subset of certified coins originated with CAC? Sorry, but CAC is a "copycat." CAC just had a broader base of coins.

TomB · January 20, 2014 2:42AM

This might be very cool, but I also have some concerns over choosing such a ubiquitous name as PQ.

guitarwes · January 20, 2014 2:43AM

<< I wish them success. But I think PQ is too generic to be copyrighted. Also, as was already mentioned, PQ has been used in this industry for years. As a matter of fact, about 10 years ago, I had custom "PQ!" stickers made and still use them on my inventory coins that I feel are above average for the grade, so there will be too many people with "first use" rights.

>>

It like your stickers. They could represent "PennyLady Quality".

TomB · January 20, 2014 2:46AM

I just went through the site a little bit and sincerely hope they own, or at least have permission to use, the six coins used as illustrations for not approved pieces. I don't know if someone would have any legal liability for possibly limiting the liquidity or value of coins by using images on a site without consent or ownership, but I imagine that some folks would find out through the legal system how this might play.

magikbilly · January 20, 2014 2:46AM

<<Friday December 06, 2013 10:25 PM

Hello,

There is a thread over at coincommunity - someone found one 7 months ago. Seems dealer Barry Stuppler is sticking the stickers on.

Eric>>

We are talking about the same PQ stickers?

Eric

coindeuce · January 20, 2014 3:22AM

I'm sticking to sticky foil stars on my PQ inventory. Trouble is, I hate the taste of the pasty glue backing, so no Stars yet.

Lakesammman · January 20, 2014 3:25AM

Saw another sticker program at FUN - "Wings" - PCGS needs to make the slabs bigger.

Sonorandesertrat · January 20, 2014 3:30AM

"Clearly limited plan with clear intent to offer customers a credible investment vehicle."

This is what I also presumed.

I think that I will wait for the AARP stickers.

291fifth · January 20, 2014 4:11AM

This will be interesting to watch. His stated grading standards seem to mirror my own rather closely. If he adopts the "if in doubt it doesn't get the sticker" standard I suspect he will gain quite a following. He needs to be very strict when applying the stated standards.

I hope he is successful.

guitarwes · January 20, 2014 4:33AM

<< Saw another sticker program at FUN - "Wings" - PCGS needs to make the slabs bigger.

>>

Pretty soon the standard slabs are gonna have to be the size of the ATB puck slabs to be able to provide enough real estate for the various stickers services, magic markers checks, and dealer codes.

Zoins · January 20, 2014 4:39AM

Wow. That's taking it to the next level.

From a marketing perspective, it's really quite ingenious. If I were a dealer, I'd quickly push out a PPQ sticker!

Coinflip · January 20, 2014 4:44AM

This one starting to look like a kids school notebook

Zoins · January 20, 2014 4:45AM

<< This one starting to look like a kids school notebook

>>

Where would the sticker go if this was a SP slab?

Kove · January 20, 2014 4:50AM

Watching with interest--from the sidelines--on this one. It will take awhile, probably a few years, to see how this one shakes out.

DAM · January 20, 2014 4:58AM

Looking at the site, I found it interesting of the 8 examples shown under "Why PQ", 2 are CAC that did not meet their "PQ" standards.

An example of personal preference and taste that collectors should be able to decide on their own.

Another downside, what would have been a $150 coin has now become a $200 coin because it has a CAC and PQ sticker on its slab.

roadrunner · January 20, 2014 5:02AM

<< This one starting to look like a kids school notebook

>>

CAC already rejects approx 85-95% of the MS65/66 Saints it sees. Don't really see the need to try and increase that rejection rate. And I thought the alphabet soup - ancronymania in coins couldn't get any more confusing.

PQing an already CAC'd saint is not much of a stretch. How about that PCGS MS66+ Saint from a few weeks ago that sparked this initial uproar? As I recall, I didn't think that coin would sticker. And logically, if it could, you'd
have to be nuts to toss away $500-$1000 by not spending the $25 to make an attempt.

Zoins · January 20, 2014 5:05AM

The nice thing about the PQ sticker is that it's not just solid for the grade:

* Great Eye Appeal!
* Excellent Strike!
* Great Mint Luster!
* No Major Copper Or Carbon Spots!
* Above Average for the Grade!
* No Major Mint Defects!
* No Ugly Toning!
* A Coin You will Be Proud To Own!

Some people have mentioned that CAC does not always mean eye appealing.

ThePennyLady · January 20, 2014 5:33AM

When this was announced during a meeting at the FUN show, they said they were only going to sticker gold and silver, not copper - at least for now.

Oxenham · January 20, 2014 5:45AM

During a conversation with David Stuppler in 2012, he mentioned to me that they really had no idea what CAC would approve or not. My guess is that their approval rate wasn't all that good, as is the case with most other dealers. Warren Mills on the other hand gets almost all his coins submitted to CAC approved because he is as strict a grader as there is in the industry. CAC had tremendous market acceptance, and its no wonder. When I talk with John Albanese, I am always amazed at his knowledge of coins. The Stupplers right hand man Don may have a sharp eye himself, but gaining market share and acceptability against CAC is a challenging endeavor.

I do take exception to their disdain of copper spots on gold. JA, WM and myself certainly have a different opinion than PQ Approved in this regard.

roadrunner · January 20, 2014 5:46AM

<< The nice thing about the PQ sticker is that it's not just solid for the grade:

* Great Eye Appeal!
* Excellent Strike!
* Great Mint Luster!
* No Major Copper Or Carbon Spots!
* Above Average for the Grade!
* No Major Mint Defects!
* No Ugly Toning!
* A Coin You will Be Proud To Own! >>

A very difficult list to say the least. This essentially means you're looking at the upper 5% of all coins in that grade. In the current vernacular, you'd have to find a coin meeting a minimum of MS65.5 to MS65.6 standards.
Such a coin should also be starred and CAC'd (or CACable). At least that's my take on all that. Can be dipped though. The "no ugly toning" doesn't mesh well with "great eye appeal." In fact, an average to semi-attractively
toned coin would not have great eye appeal. You'd probably have to jump right to attractive to beautiful toning to qualify for great eye appeal. Stating "no ugly toning" is superfluous. Same comment for "major spots." All
of the terms: excellent strike, great mint luster, etc. can have a myriad of meanings, especially with all the variations in strike and luster for certain issues. Some just don't with an excellent strike or with great mint luster. This
system must be only applicable to nice mint state coins as proofs don't have great mint luster and neither do most coins below MS61. Still comes down to the price though.

bidask · January 20, 2014 5:52AM

The sticker scene is getting a little silly.

But that is still ultimately the result of bad coins in graded slabs.

Money talks.

Show me a real 2 way market for cac, pq, or just a solid
dealers who back their coin sales with stong buybacks.

Not some bs.

I'm watching pq's "market" for their stickered coins ..

steveben · January 20, 2014 5:55AM

the real question is ... will an ngc graded coin that is cac'd *and* pq'd cross at the same grade? ;-)

BAJJERFAN · January 20, 2014 5:57AM

<< Saw another sticker program at FUN - "Wings" - PCGS needs to make the slabs bigger.

>>

Or make them small so there is no room for extra decoration.

stman · January 20, 2014 5:58AM

At least they are stating their standards right up front, rather than speculation for years from all different sources. Whether they stick to these standards will need to play out in time.

DoubleEagle59 · January 20, 2014 5:59AM

I think it's ridiculous.

There's going to be so many of these 'sticker' companies in the future that the coin will be totally covered up.

It's also a big conflict of interest when a company that is supposed to 'grade' also 'sells'.

Frozenink · January 20, 2014 6:03AM

I dont believe I will be sending any of my CBH in for this. From what they say on the website (reading between the lines) they do not like the weak strikes, diecracks and other items I look for in a CBH to be considered PQ.

Just another opinion, but it seems to take the old screw press coins out of the picture. Unlesss they only want to sticker the MS64-67 coins.

PQ Approve-- post your PQ Approved coins here!

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