Is the currency of coin shows still hard cash?

MGLICKER · January 17, 2014 4:18AM

99% of my buying and selling is online, so virtually all payments are electronic.

Tucson show is in town and though I skipped today, I may drop by on Saturday.

Does one still need a pocketful of FRN's to buy coins at a show*?

*I have no problem paying the 3% upcharge to use plastic or paypal if the coin is right and my cash stash is depleted.

kimber45ACP · January 17, 2014 4:25AM

I believe cash is still king at shows.

Staircoins · January 17, 2014 4:45AM

Cash, generally. Although I pay with (company) checks to folks that know me, and take checks from those who come to my table - as long as they have references from someone I know.

I also take both credit cards (with Square) and Paypal, but almost nobody uses these.

In doing shows large and small since 1989, I've been very fortunate to have taken a bad check only once. It was for $25, and when contacted the gentleman made it good immediately - including fees.

Sonorandesertrat · January 17, 2014 4:49AM

I have had no problem paying by check at the Tucson show.

DennisH · January 17, 2014 4:54AM

In my experience cash is universal, checks require references, and credit cards can be a problem.

MGLICKER · January 17, 2014 5:05AM

<< In my experience cash is universal, checks require references, and credit cards can be a problem. >>

True. Problem is one never knows how much is needed.

Yorkshireman · January 17, 2014 5:10AM

A wise man once said:

"In God we trust. All others pay cash."

2ndCharter · January 17, 2014 5:32AM

I only carry enough cash to cover incidentals at a show (parking, meals, etc.) at that's it. I have no problem taking checks and have never had a problem using a check at a show.

At the recent FUN show, I was playing middleman on an item - delivering it from one collector to another - the collector at FUN offered to pay for it with a wad of cash and I told him to give me a check instead. I just don't like walking around with all of that green stuff. Checks are fine by me.

CalGold · January 17, 2014 5:39AM

I wonder when they will start accepting, or perhaps preferring, bitcoin.

CG

lostincoins · January 17, 2014 5:40AM

if you are concerned try asking to meet at your bank to make your agreed terms of purchase.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 17, 2014 5:43AM

I take credit cards , checks and pay pal using the smart technology.

keyman64 · January 17, 2014 6:01AM

If your budget is less than a couple of grand then cash is king. Take in cash whatever you are prepared to spend....or take stuff to sell in order to obtain cash if you need it. Some folks do set up to take credit cards but many do not. Some will take checks and just mail your coins to you after the checks have cleared.

Cameonut · January 17, 2014 6:01AM

I prefer cash, but will take a check under certain conditions. I also take credit cards with Square on my smart phone.

CoinRaritiesOnline · January 17, 2014 6:19AM

The overwhelming majority of my transactions are by check.

WTCG · January 17, 2014 6:22AM

Depends on who is buying. From retail public and people I don't know cash makes things easier. From the regulars I actually prefer checks.

Elcontador · January 17, 2014 6:28AM

1) Most venues have ATMs.
2) If your references are good, you will have no problem using personal checks or credit cards
3) If the margin on a particular coin is thin, the dealer will prefer a check over a credit card

CoinJunkie · January 17, 2014 6:38AM

At almost any show large enough to be worth attending, there will be at least one well-known reputable dealer whom
I've dealt with who can vouch for my check. It's usually enough to just mention names. That said, I usually carry
around up to a grand in cash "just in case". Some dealers are more inclined to take a check if one pays a part
of the invoice in cash.

EDIT: If the dealer really didn't want to take my check and I loved the coin, I would consider letting him/her
wait to ship me the coin until the check cleared. That would require my trusting the dealer in question, of course.
I generally don't like using plastic to buy coins at a show.

PTVETTER · January 17, 2014 6:44AM

Cash is preferred
Second is check with proper ID AND references
Last and seldom used is plastic! Cost the dealers a percentage that is in some cases more than the profit.

Catbert · January 17, 2014 7:03AM

Just bring cash - no fuss, no muss.

Cougar1978 · January 17, 2014 9:28AM

I take cash only at shows, after all these are money shows. I have found if people have money they know where to find an ATM.

I might take a check on something under $50. Credit cards, no way. Yes cash is king at shows and plastic money is not looked on favorably.

I do take bullion coins at melt as trade in (assuming its something I think I can sell) and numismatic coins can be traded in based on CMI x CDN Bid or else blue sheet - PCGS, NGC only. This may seem harsh but I have listed slabbed coins on ebay (auction starting at 99c) that could not even bring blue sheet. That's ok if someone wants to trade me coins to buy something from me at a show bc they don't have the cash, but I certainly don't want to pay more for them than what I could blow them out for on the Bay!

KeyLargoRareCoins · January 17, 2014 10:08AM

Cash is always king period........
Of couse some will take other forms of paymemt but cash is king, there are always atm machines. Numerous dealers carry lots of cash at all shows ther is zero exception to that and numerous buyers also carry lots of cash.

DoubleEagle59 · January 17, 2014 10:12AM

Of course.

Coinflip · January 17, 2014 12:47PM

Heres how my Saturday went...Was gonna head up to White Plains, few hours away, 100 tables , didn't have much cash on hand, decided to just grab box of proof sets with a $200 hundred or so tied up in it, and some modern junk slabs I got with another purchase and headed to a local shop, just to wholesale some things. Turned most of the sets into cash, and he says, Theres a show down the road with 50 tables. REALLY? An hour later, turned the rest of the sets and slabs into cash with minimal losses and picked an AU 46 DDR half, for $12, 58 50c Cameo proofer $15, 62 FBL frankie $15 and 56Ty1 Rattler for $140 which I hope CAMs and a few cent rolls for giggles, which was a good take on the day for the minimal money I had on me, before I said I gotta get the heck outta here as my original plan was just to free up some more cash flow .

I've made purchases at shows before with paypal, right then and there. If you want something you can make it happen, but don't give up, trade, flip make things happen

bestday · January 17, 2014 12:57PM

cash is still the man.. Sept show in Illinois, a man pulled 2 stacks of hundred dollar bills from a small bag ...over $20,000 .. for some gold coins

Staircoins · January 17, 2014 9:41PM

<< cash is still the man.. Sept show in Illinois, a man pulled 2 stacks of hundred dollar bills from a small bag ...over $20,000 .. for some gold coins >>

Depending on the dealer, that much cash could easily kill a deal as well. Technically that transaction would require the filing of an 8300 form, which many customers may not like.

BillJones · January 17, 2014 9:45PM

<< 

<< cash is still the man.. Sept show in Illinois, a man pulled 2 stacks of hundred dollar bills from a small bag ...over $20,000 .. for some gold coins >>

Depending on the dealer, that much cash could easily kill a deal as well. Technically that transaction would require the filing of an 8300 form, which many customers may not like. >>

As a dealer I would be reluctant to accept that deal. You don't know where the cash came from, and you will have to file with the Treasury Department when you deposit it. Smart dealers don't want that hastle any more. There are a few dealers on the national circuit who gotten into trouble over this. I won't name names, but it has happened.

If you know the person from whom are taking the check, or that person has great references, I'll take a check over cash any day.

JJSingleton · January 17, 2014 9:49PM

I usually carry less than a $300 mostly for general travel expenses. I always pay with checks. I have several well respected dealers I use for references if I have not done business with the seller before.

ricko · January 17, 2014 10:51PM

When I did go to coin shows (none around here), cash was the general rule. Yes, checks could be used with those who knew you (prior dealings etc), but generally, it was cash changing hands - buying and selling. Cheers, RickO

BAJJERFAN · January 18, 2014 12:40AM

<< 

<< cash is still the man.. Sept show in Illinois, a man pulled 2 stacks of hundred dollar bills from a small bag ...over $20,000 .. for some gold coins >>

Depending on the dealer, that much cash could easily kill a deal as well. Technically that transaction would require the filing of an 8300 form, which many customers may not like. >>

As a dealer, if you go to your bank to get $20K in cash for buying at a show is your bank still required to file the 8300?

KeyLargoRareCoins · January 18, 2014 1:19AM

<< 

<< 

<< cash is still the man.. Sept show in Illinois, a man pulled 2 stacks of hundred dollar bills from a small bag ...over $20,000 .. for some gold coins >>

Depending on the dealer, that much cash could easily kill a deal as well. Technically that transaction would require the filing of an 8300 form, which many customers may not like. >>

As a dealer, if you go to your bank to get $20K in cash for buying at a show is your bank still required to file the 8300? >>

First off its unlikely your bank will just hand you 20k cash as they prefer to be notified in advance, yes I found this out first hand. You dont go to your bank and pull out 20k, you go to your bank and pull out 2k each time till you have the 20k. As far as the 20k transaction, thats not a large amount of money when it comes to coins, pretty common for dealers as well as buyers at large shows to have at least that much cash on them, I always have my buisiness checks in case they are needed but cash is always king PERIOD. When I go to a large show such as fun I am in a hurry the first day. I am there to buy inventory on dealer set up not spend time writing checks. I am hitting table after table and buying coins, I prefer to make it quick and not spend time writing checks. If I must pay with a check then I scribble the amount and leave the check and coins then swing by later to finish up.

stman · January 18, 2014 1:32AM

Small shows and smaller purchases cash is fine to use. Larger shows, I've never had a problem using a check. Only one time a dealer asked for a reference. I knew the dealer right behind him and deal was done easily. It must be my charming personality why the dealers trust me.

BAJJERFAN · January 18, 2014 2:48AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< cash is still the man.. Sept show in Illinois, a man pulled 2 stacks of hundred dollar bills from a small bag ...over $20,000 .. for some gold coins >>

Depending on the dealer, that much cash could easily kill a deal as well. Technically that transaction would require the filing of an 8300 form, which many customers may not like. >>

As a dealer, if you go to your bank to get $20K in cash for buying at a show is your bank still required to file the 8300? >>

First off its unlikely your bank will just hand you 20k cash as they prefer to be notified in advance, yes I found this out first hand. You dont go to your bank and pull out 20k, you go to your bank and pull out 2k each time till you have the 20k. As far as the 20k transaction, thats not a large amount of money when it comes to coins, pretty common for dealers as well as buyers at large shows to have at least that much cash on them, I always have my buisiness checks in case they are needed but cash is always king PERIOD. When I go to a large show such as fun I am in a hurry the first day. I am there to buy inventory on dealer set up not spend time writing checks. I am hitting table after table and buying coins, I prefer to make it quick and not spend time writing checks. If I must pay with a check then I scribble the amount and leave the check and coins then swing by later to finish up. >>

I'm aware of the preference to notify your bank before making large withdrawals and the taking out a little every day thing, tho I suppose it's possible they may fall under the "related transactions" thingy. Since the coin biz can be a cash intensive business I was just curious if ealers had any real qualms about withdrawing large amounts of cash for legitimate needs.

DaveG · January 18, 2014 2:53AM

While I'm not in the retail side of the bank I work for, I still get stuck taking the anti-money laundering training.

As I understand it, not only will a bank have to report a single withdrawal of $20K in cash, but if you come in for $2K on a regular basis, they'll have to report that as a "pattern of behavior," (that is, an attempt to evade the $10K in cash transaction reporting rules) which is why many banks are "de-emphasizing" (that is, closing the accounts of) customers that handle a lot of cash on a regular basis.

I've read a few articles on this in the major newspapers (WSJ, NYT) over the past year.

BAJJERFAN · January 18, 2014 3:07AM

If your reasons are legit, there shouldn't be much to worry about. If I won the lottery and took out a million in cash, the funds would be legit as far as to where they came from.

Greeniejr · January 18, 2014 3:32AM

<< While I'm not in the retail side of the bank I work for, I still get stuck taking the anti-money laundering training.

As I understand it, not only will a bank have to report a single withdrawal of $20K in cash, but if you come in for $2K on a regular basis, they'll have to report that as a "pattern of behavior," (that is, an attempt to evade the $10K in cash transaction reporting rules) which is why many banks are "de-emphasizing" (that is, closing the accounts of) customers that handle a lot of cash on a regular basis.

I've read a few articles on this in the major newspapers (WSJ, NYT) over the past year. >>

You are not going to outsmart the banks... PERIOD. These AML rules are the way they are for a reason and the banks and governments don't want to be made a fool. I am not in banking either but I am heavily involved in ICTA so I get plenty of training from that side. On our side of things there are two types of reports an 8300 and a SAR and I believe it is similar for a bank. The 8300 is for simply that you took in 10k+ in cash in a single or related transactions. A SAR is when a company or institution take in cash that is not explicitly required to be put on an 8300 but raises suspicion for whatever reason. This could range from someone bringing in 7k in cash, all 10s and 20s that wreak of pot to someone bringing in large amounts of cash frequently but not doing anything to indicate the transactions are explicitly related. I am paraphrasing this so don't take it as the gospel, but according to the ICTA AML consultant and former criminal investigator for the IRS, 8300s rarely get looked at unless you are getting investigated for other things. Every SAR report is at least looked at. Further, you will never know a SAR was filed against you as it is illegal to tell someone that a SAR was filed.
It is absolutely true what Dave is saying that banks are closing coin dealer accounts. The biggest reason is not deposits and withdrawls though it does contribute. The largest reason is non-compliance with AML rules and not having the proper documents on file. The rules have been in place for a long time they really just started enforcing them

Unknown · January 18, 2014 3:34AM

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BillJones · January 18, 2014 4:03AM

Let's cut to chase.

If you are a coin or bullion dealer who indiscriminately takes in a lot of cash in large transactions, you are opening yourself up to money laundering charges. Think about it. Could a drug dealer or bribe taker ask for anything better than to convert their cash in gold, silver and platinum without leaving a lot of money on the table to cover the risk of such a transaction? That's the risk dealers take if they don't watch their step with such transactions.

Is the currency of coin shows still hard cash?

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