Coin Collecting circa 1960
stevepk
Posts: 238 ✭✭✭
I was born in 1980, so I haven't the slightest idea what it was like to collect coins in the year 1960. I would imagine it was lot more fun back then. I can imagine walking into a bank and asking for $500 in mixed cents, nickels, dimes, quarters, halves, and even Morgan and Peace dollars. I would search every coin in the lot for key dates, add them to my collection, and return or spend the remaining coins (all silver at the time).
Back then, coin collecting must have been about actual effort and work. I would have had a blast spending hours going through roll after roll of Lincoln cents searching for a 1914-D or plain 1922 at face value and probably would have found at least a couple with enough effort. I would have probably found a few Indian Head cents in the mix, perhaps even a few key dates. Buffalo nickels would probably have been found in nearly every roll. Key date mercury dimes, walking liberty half dollars, 1932-D and S Washington quarters, and even better date Morgan dollars could have been found at face value given enough effort was given. Every bank teller in town would have known me on a first-name basis.
For the elusive draped bust and flowing hair coins from the early days of the US mint, I could expect to put down a few hundred dollars (in todays money) for something unobtainable today. Imagine saving up not just for a common date draped bust quarter for the type set, but a 1796 quarter n VF condition for the same money! This is far too expensive of a coin today for most collectors to consider.
Next, I would take full advantage of a simplistic grading system. When coin dealers would have priced all BU coins at BU money, I would cherry pick all the MS66 coins at MS60 money.
Today, building a quality coin collection really depends on how much money you can afford on the hobby. Virtually all coins worth collecting have been picked from circulation, attributed, graded, slabbed, and given a high price tag for the exact attributes of the coin. Wouldn't it have been more fun back the 1960's when all these variables were ignored and collectors were free to find them in the wild?
How far off base am I?
Back then, coin collecting must have been about actual effort and work. I would have had a blast spending hours going through roll after roll of Lincoln cents searching for a 1914-D or plain 1922 at face value and probably would have found at least a couple with enough effort. I would have probably found a few Indian Head cents in the mix, perhaps even a few key dates. Buffalo nickels would probably have been found in nearly every roll. Key date mercury dimes, walking liberty half dollars, 1932-D and S Washington quarters, and even better date Morgan dollars could have been found at face value given enough effort was given. Every bank teller in town would have known me on a first-name basis.
For the elusive draped bust and flowing hair coins from the early days of the US mint, I could expect to put down a few hundred dollars (in todays money) for something unobtainable today. Imagine saving up not just for a common date draped bust quarter for the type set, but a 1796 quarter n VF condition for the same money! This is far too expensive of a coin today for most collectors to consider.
Next, I would take full advantage of a simplistic grading system. When coin dealers would have priced all BU coins at BU money, I would cherry pick all the MS66 coins at MS60 money.
Today, building a quality coin collection really depends on how much money you can afford on the hobby. Virtually all coins worth collecting have been picked from circulation, attributed, graded, slabbed, and given a high price tag for the exact attributes of the coin. Wouldn't it have been more fun back the 1960's when all these variables were ignored and collectors were free to find them in the wild?
How far off base am I?
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Comments
I love your perspective. You are not far off base at all. I remember the 1964 era -- picking silver out of circulation. I wish so badly I could have experienced the scenario you very realistically presented.
Thanks . . the memories may not be there, but the wonderment is . . . . I appreciate your post!
Drunner
1. Inflation probably wouldn't make getting $500 in change from a bank typical or at the least, a regular occurrence.
2.Prices for today's key dates (and all coins across the board) were significantly less in 1960 (circulated 32-S/D Quarters retailed around $8-$12) ..... Etcetera
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I never found a 1914 D cent nor a 1922 no D cent. I may not have even found a 1922 D. Indian head cents and Barber coinage would have been most unusual but possible.
In 1959 or 1960 I started saving buffalo and silver war nickels. Approximately 1/3 of nickels in circulation were buffalos and 1/3 war nicks. In 1964 a reduced number of buffalos were still in circulation here. I was told none were in circulation in California. I turned my hoard in as a car down payment.
Well before 1960, the banks had unc Morgan 1921's followed by unc 1922's and then 1923. By 1954 odds were good of occasionally finding old BU Morgans at banks.
By 1961 Peace dollars were hard to find. Most dollars found were circulated old Morgans. It was a glorious time to be collecting Morgans from circulation. IN 1964 I turned a large batch of silver dollars as a car downpayment. It created quite a scene at the dealership. Word spread that the cashier had silver dollars. Soon there was a line of workers and customers buying silver dollars.
If you were a cashier, you were bound to come across an occasional Federal Reserve Bank Note. It was unusual, but we occasionally saw notes dating back to 1928.
Seems that almost all of them were listed at $2.00 @ in the book, meaning they were worth face then. One was listed at $8, most likely a CC.
In 1965 (still a young kid) I was in a Saturday morning bowling league. After bowling, my buddies went to the Chinese restaurant for lunch. Instead I took my last buck and went to the bank where they usually had Franklin Halfs. I picked up two.
The Morgans are gone and the Halfs are gone. Probably should have opted for the Egg Foo Yong instead.
1. The pricing in the Redbooks was FAR more influential than it is today (or even when she stopped collecting in ca. 1980).
2. Grading was much less complicated---intermediate grades began popping up later because of the influx of money into the hobby.
3. My father was picking Liberty nickels, Indian Head cents, and Barber coinage out of pocket change at that time. He didn't find anything particularly valuable.
4. There were altered coins all over the place (true until the TPGs ran polished and whizzed coins out of the inventories of most dealers).
5. Coin auctions were mostly attended by dealers, with far less collector participation than today (the internet has worked wonders).
6. Numismatic literature didn't sell well, and collectors didn't have much to choose from as far as specialty books are concerned. Frank Katen was probably the most visible dealer who carried books and auction catalogs in his inventory.
7. Walter Breen was hot stuff---his opinion was held above those of others.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
1) When silver coins were still circulating, I found plenty of Mercs, but no valuable dates, like the overdate, 16 D, the 21 P or D, or any of the 1931 coinage.
2) Ditto with Buffalo nickels. I did find a 24 S in fine; that was my best score. I picked up a 38 D which today would probably grade MS 66 for $1 or $2 from a dealer who had a few rolls of them.
3) For some reason, SLQs were scarce.
4) Did find up a number of Walkers, a few older ones, but no better dates.
5) I did find the very occasional IHC, Liberty Nickel and a few Barber coins in circulation.
6) Overall, it wasn't any better than today. The scams were more obvious. I wouldn't buy a 16 D dime of 09 S VDB cent, because there were too many fakes around.
a) The BU that the dealer sold you was an Unc. when you wanted to sell it back to him. Don't think for a moment you could cherrypick these guys.
b) For inexpensive coins, you occasionally could find stuff at a bidboard, but the lighting was usually bad, so you wouldn't want to buy a high grade or expensive coin at these
venues
c) Grading circulated coins was generally fairly straightforward.
d) Auctions were the best venues to buy more expensive coins. But they were a bazaar of nice coins, nothing special for the grade coins, and doctored coins, all in 2 by 2s.
e) Selling coins was hit or miss. Dealers would routinely lowball you (see item a), even if the coin was solid for the grade. The dealers behind the numismatic ads would also
lowball you, and would always seem to find 'problems' with the coin(s) once you paid to ship them to said dealers.
In short, while I found most coins to fill my Whitman albums, if I wanted to buy an expensive coin, it was hit or miss. My best find was a 32 S quarter which today would grade fine. It was neat to find forty or sometimes fifty year coins in change. But you have to remember that the minimum wage was something between $1 and $1.25 back then, so dropping $100 on a coin was a big deal for most collectors.
Just wanted to add one thing: collecting Unc. rolls, especially 1955 S Cents, and the dimes, and the 1950 D Nickel, were all hot items back then. You can get all of these coins cheaper today than you could fifty years ago.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
It's all relative to the time.
Looking back in fondness is usually without the prospective of reality.
peacockcoins
There were no peace dollars in the 50's-60's government releases as all the bags were put away before 1921. We found 5 1893-S's, one a P01. (wish I'd have kept it.) It was a lot more fun back then. You could actually get key coins from circulation. Later around 1968 or so we started to cull silver coins from bags and rolls. However, we never found a key date Washington quarter or half dollar in circulation(We did find 2 1942/1 overdate mercury dimes--but no other keys) and we went through many many bags of coins when silver started to rise in price and took out all the silver coins we could find and sell them for as little as 6% over face value. Varieties were not much collected back so I think we threw many of them into the silver mix. There were a lot of war nickels still in circulation. For a few years after 1964, it seemed that every nickel in circulation was either a war nickel or a 1964. Gold coins were way undervalued back then as the government pegged the price of gold at $35.00 per ounce for many years and prohibited private ownership of gold. But it did not matter as money itself was not that available and most collectors were circulation collectors.
A lot more coins were available-The Overton bust half variety book was not yet published and putting together a date set of bust halves from 1807-1839 was easy with the sole exception of the 1815. XF bust halves were $8 in 1960. Unfortunately for me I did not start collecting them until about 1975 when prices went higher. There were not many buffalo nickels left by 1960. We did not find too many of them. Most of the ones that we did find were dated 1936-1937 or 1938.
While you could possibly obtain a 1796 quarter in VF for a few hundred dollars back then, the problem is that you most likely would not have had a few hundred dollars to spend on coins in 1960. $100 was a lot of money in 1960 for the average person. Even back then, building a quality coin collection depended on how much money you could spend on the hobby.
Bob
I never found any Indian Head Cents in circulation but there were usually some Buffalo Nickels to be found if you looked through nickels. I never found the key date Mercs, or the 1932 quarters, but I did find a worn 1936-D quarter once. My best half dollar find was a 1928-S received for shoveling snow, and the only Morgan Dollar I owned was an 1896-P which I bought from the bank for a dollar. When the Kennedy halves were released, our bank allocated only 1 per customer, so I paid a classmate $0.55 for his and I had 2 decent Unc Kennedys from the Denver Mint until about 2000 when my childhood coins were stolen during a move.
My older brother was rich because he had a paper route. I remember that his specialty was Standing Liberty Quarters, and I remember that some of them were tough, even then. I remember that he bought one of the 1904-O Morgans that were released from the Government vaults in the early '60s, and until then the 1904-O was a rare date, so he was pretty pumped to get one cheap.
There was no such thing as a toner back then. I never saw them anywhere, and nobody ever showed me one. Just an oddball observation.
I knew it would happen.
If you were to walk into the bank with $500, then that would be a big deal considering the average price of a new car was around $2500 and a decent new house would run $15,000. Not that it wouldn't have been fun, just unlikely for the average collector. Oh ... how many banks would have had an "extra" $500 in change lying around?
Grading then was simple ... not simplistic. Knowledgable collectors spent "moon money" for nice examples of "MS-60" coins and so did the dealers. Often, the unwitting collectors fell prey to cleaned "AU" [which did not as a grade exist in 1960] coins sold as gems. Our 21st century lens have a rose hue.
The streets were not lined with 1916-D dimes and S-VDB cents.
What will collectors say 50 years from now? "Ah, Grandpa, I can't believe you could have picked up all those Susan B. Anthony dollars for face value!" I would have gone to the bank every week with $5000 to cherrypick all those varieties everyone wants now!"
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Circulating coinage--yes, even the walkers, mercs, and buffalos--was what I used to buy interesting coins--the obsolete stuff that no one ever found...large cents, half cents, seated silver, etc.
I got an Indian Head Cent in circulation. All the Lincoln's had the same reverse so
a lot of dates were available.
Mercury dimes and Walkers circulated along with their newer counterparts. Sometimes,
a thin Standing Liberty Quarter would appear in change.
Buffalo nickels were nothing special.
Never got a Barber anything.
The local bank always had a few silver dollars both Morgans and Peace,
and were glad to get rid of them.
JFK silver, War Nickels, Early Jeff nickels, Wheaties, and Silver Certificates & US Bank notes were still reachable. The fact that all of
my co-workers knew I collected coins made them even MORE reachable
"La Vostra Nonna Ha Faccia Del Fungo"
I remember getting bags of cents from the monies collected from the municipal parking meters. I'd sit at the kitchen table at night and look thru the bags - hoping to find something to fill a hole in my Whitman folders (Lincoln and Indian). After a while, it became difficult to find anything new (never found a 09sVDB, 14d, 22 plain, or 31s) so we just graduated to the "big leagues" - that meant nickels. Did the same thing there - never found a 50d in parking meter change.
I couldn't afford to collect anything else, keep in mind that at that time, minimum wage was $1 an hour and I think my allowance was something like 50 cents or $1 a week. So collecting quarters or halves was out of the question.
I got hooked on collecting proofs when I received a new 1961 proof set for Christmas - never saw a cameo at that time.
I also recall the transition to clad and the hoarding of silver - I still have rolls and rolls of silver quarters that my mom pulled from circulation and set aside.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
of our church.
Then I'd go to our local bank (no bars, 3" plexiglass, alarms, cameras). Usually exchanged $5 for
penny rolls replacing ones I kept, turn them in for another $5 worth. They got to know me so well
that I was allowed to go thru the swinging thigh-high "door" to a officers desk and do my searching
sitting down. Go thru every roll they had and come back when they would tell me they'd have more.
Only remember one find in particular...a 1909 VDB. At that time, condition was never a thought. It
was all about the date/mm to fill my album. Funny thing, I can't remember what ever happened to it.
Even tho most everything was silver, it was only worth from .90 to $1.30 per ounce. 1965 to 1970, it
hit over $2./oz in '68 then dropped a little. Hindsight, I probably would have paid more attention to the
metal as well as the date! But really, back then, who would have ever guessed they'd stop using silver
or limit its content?
Never gave a thought to any coinage over cents until 1967. But that's when Jeffersons caught my
attention with a small dabbling in quarters. Dimes were too small, halves were too big and silver
dollars!!!???...couldn't afford to stockpile them!
<< <i>While you could possibly obtain a 1796 quarter in VF for a few hundred dollars back then, the problem is that you most likely would not have had a few hundred dollars to spend on coins in 1960. $100 was a lot of money in 1960 for the average person. Even back then, building a quality coin collection depended on how much money you could spend on the hobby.
Bob >>
Such a great point. It's hard to look at a Red Book from those days and not think how cheap they were, even adjusting for inflation. But people forget how hard money was to come by in those days.
In the early 60's in Arlington,VA I would go the the local bank Arlington Trust on Wilson Blvd. Had a paper route so I could get lots of change to go through with the money I collected until it had to go to the Washington Post.
Some of the more memorable scores of a half a million cents looked through were a $50.00 bag of 1943 PD and S. Took all back to the
bank. All circulated.
Numerous 1909-VDBs commoner than dirt. All the Lincolns except the S-VDB, 1914-D, 1909-S, and 1931-S. Found ten rolls of 1960_D SD
which I sold for $4.50 a roll and purchased the 1914-D which I still have today.
You could sell the 1921 halves for $10.00 last 2 digits showing. Sold many of them back of Coin World ads. Also 1953 and 1955 halves for
$2.00 each. By the truckload.
Silver dollars of which I made many thousands of dollars buying, and selling. All of the dates coming out of the Treasury were scary. You
never knew which big date was next after the 1898-O, 1904-O, and 1903-O. Nicest CC I found was an 1881. 1880-S that were so nice
that it hurt to look at them. DMPL's and everything else.
Great time to be collecting. One common thread of all of this. Money was not nearly as plentiful to set aside for coins.
You could get rolls of coins to search through, but the coin shortage of 1965 put an end to that. You could get a very limited number of rolls, not more than a couple, and it was best if you could exchange them for other rolls you are checked through.
My first trip to a coin dealer, Gimbels Department Store in New York City, was circa 1962. I filled a number of holes in my collection. The two big purchases I got were a 1908-S Indian cent in VG to Fine (dealer's grade) which would grade Fine today for $35, and an 1875-P Twenty Cent Piece in Fine for $20, which would still grade Fine today.
In those days $100 was a lot more money than it is today. People thought that if you had a job that paid $100 a week, you were doing pretty well. A BU (MS-63 or 64 if you knew how to grade) costs $27.50 to $35.00 retail. Double eagles were advertised in $49.95 each, but a lot of those coins were really marked up. I paid $75 to established dealers, which was high, but I was afraid of getting sold a counterfeit, which were around at that time, made in Lebanon. I did okay in the long run because coins I purchased were genuine, and later they graded MS-64. An Unc. $5 Indian, which could be Mint State if you were picky cost $45, and a $10 Indian in the same grade cost about the same.
I will say that dealers in my area were not particularly kind to Y/Ns in those days. My coin was AU if selling, but BU if buying. I only came back to the hobby after 3rd party grading (Our Hosts Primarily) made a level playing field for grade more or less. I do remember very nice St. Gauden's double eagle for sale at $50 each and they were nice coins. They were nice to look at, but my entire net worth being under $20 kept me from every buying at that time.
fond memories I will say that
My story was one of extensive roll searching. Cents, nearly exclusively. When I was ‘flush’, I’d do a roll of nickels. Back and forth to the A&P on my bike when I was in grammar school. The school was a four room building – one for each of first through fourth grade. You could get a wonderful slice of Dutch Apple pie for a dime and milk was 3 cents. Lunch was 30 cents IIRC. For the times when my Mom would give me lunch money, as opposed to a prepared lunch, I would usually starve myself out of the lunch and go for the pie and milk only – this way I could ask for a silver quarter in exchange for my clad coins. (The lunch lady kept all the proceeds in a cigar box and I did this often enough that she would have a quarter of interest squirreled away in the corner).
My Mom would keep silver quarters, dimes, and the occasional half dollar, acquired from change in the mid sixties to early 70s and put them in a terribly ugly piggy bank. I have the piggy bank and have the silver coins in plastic tubes for conservation and memories. I recently had call to go through the dimes looking for 1940s Mercury dimes for a new collection I’m starting with a nice acquisition of earlier Mercury dime dates from poster ‘Patches’.
In 1968, I required myself to keep all wheat stalk cents. This really cramped my cash flow, but I was starting on doing lawns and bringing in some more serious money. I was in the $5 range for my roll swaps. Still have all of those wheat stalks – nearly $200 worth. Still keep every wheat stalk I get.
As I got big enough to venture further, I would go to banks to do my roll swaps. Best memory was one bank where my rolls were shotgun rolls with ‘1940S’ on six of them and ‘1942S’ on two. I opened one of each, and true to their labeling they contained circulated examples of their dates. I still have the remaining unopened shotgun rolls in my collection to this day. The memories are worth hundreds of times more than the value of the rolls.
While visiting my grandmother in Pittsburgh, she got me a $100 bag of pennies. I still remember the extreme fun I had going through that bag! I could not afford to keep all of the wheat stalks I found; my parents wouldn’t let me. I kept about a dollar’s worth with my parents making up the difference to my grandmother – this killing included one IHC and some tougher early dates.
In middle and high school, I was doing lawns and had more money than I could have imagined: $20, $30, even $40 dollars at the high water marks. At that point, an adult collector (who has long since passed) who worked with my Dad, Bob Mark, stated I should invest in high grade uncirculated (or BU) coins. So, I embarked on a collection of BU Washington Quarters – which were in a Whitman Deluxe folder (transferred to the two Capital holders about ten years ago). They were purchased from Sage Coins, 196 North York, Elmhurst IL. Sid and Ethyl Katz were the proprietors (only saw Sid a few times until he died and Ethyl took over) – wonderful people. Each month, Sage would run a sale which usually included a PDS set of quarters. I still have the clipped ads from the Chicago Tribune. Those are very fond memories - Mr. Mark was busy assembling centennial coinage in anticipation of 1976. He wound up making a very handsome profit when the bicentennial hit. I remember Ethyl stating she would be happy buying back the coins he had kept, but Mr. Mark kept the nices ones for himself and paid for them by selling the others.
Addressing the thread subject matter – hunting for copper cents (pre 1982, 81???) is probably equal to my wheat stalk hunting in the 60s. Acquiring all of the state quarters and national park quarters would be a fun project too, but likely not financially rewarding.
<< <i>
<< <i>While you could possibly obtain a 1796 quarter in VF for a few hundred dollars back then, the problem is that you most likely would not have had a few hundred dollars to spend on coins in 1960. $100 was a lot of money in 1960 for the average person. Even back then, building a quality coin collection depended on how much money you could spend on the hobby.
Bob >>
Such a great point. It's hard to look at a Red Book from those days and not think how cheap they were, even adjusting for inflation. But people forget how hard money was to come by in those days. >>
On the flip side, a 1903-O Morgan was about $20,000 at that time with only a handful known. They dropped to about $10 each when the GSA audit found a couple hundred thousand in the Mint vaults.
Edit to add: I amy be high on the cost of the 1903-O. I do recall one book stating that each was worth as much as 10 Cadillacs before the stash was found.
Guess which was the hot "investment" item of the time!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>In 1964 a single BU 1950-D nickel was worth more than a roll of common-date BU Morgan dollars.
Guess which was the hot "investment" item of the time!
This is pretty much the size of it.
The '50-D was the only great coin I ever found and it was in 1964. I sold it for $25.
When I started collecting in 1957 I just never really had the money to really search rolls. I'd
scrape up a couple dollars to search nickels but everything was mostly gone since millions were
collecting coins. I managed to put together most of a buffalo collection but the better dates were
atrocious. I could tell the date on a worn buffalo and still can. Lots of friends were collectors but
they weren't having much more luck though one found a nice G/ VG 1932-D quarter.
I think 2004 will prove to be the real golden age of circulation finds. Of course just like in 1957
when we should have been looking for varieties and Gems we were all looking for the wrong coins,
the same thing was going on in 2004.
This golden age will last until all the great coins have been found in a few more years.
be found between '57 and '60. But 1960 was about the time that
it started dropping fast. By 1964 all the buffalos were culls or no-
date. Everything was just picked clean.
Coin clubs were being formed everywhere and were booming.
Then came May, 1964 and the great coin market crash. Some coins such as circ. Lincolns and Indians essentially didn't recover for thirty years. Some, such as circ. Jefferson nickels, never did recover. (Yes, circ. Jefferson nickels were actively collected at that time!)
Today we have plastic, stickers and NCLT. It's not fun anymore.
<< <i>There was a noticeable drop off in the quality of coins that could
be found between '57 and '60. But 1960 was about the time that
it started dropping fast. By 1964 all the buffalos were culls or no-
date. Everything was just picked clean. >>
You are absolutely correct when you say that the better coins from circulation were gone by 1964. If you went to the bank and got rolls or bags it was obvious that someone else had already looked through them and taken out everything of value.
<< <i>Today we have plastic, stickers and NCLT. It's not fun anymore. >>
Are you saying it was last fun for you in 1964? 'Cause if so, you might think about finding a new hobby.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>
<< <i>Today we have plastic, stickers and NCLT. It's not fun anymore. >>
Are you saying it was last fun for you in 1964? 'Cause if so, you might think about finding a new hobby. >>
I have several other hobbies, all of which are now more important than coin collecting.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
1969/70 - my mom was the ONLY employee at the credit union (about 900 population town in the very north/central of Montana).
I had two older brothers completing their coin merit badges in scouting, so I got to hunt through rolls of coins with them as well. My oldest brother completed a circulated Washington quarter book from these rolls, sans the 32 S.
Gary also nearly completed a Franklin half set as well. For some reason, I thought the obverse of that coin is ugly. He did not.
They were both working on type sets during this time as well. Some interesting finds, but I don't know any particulars.
There was one other person in town that was known to collect coins. Todd Kelso - he owned and operated the local drug store/fountain stand. Considering his business was probably the busiest in town, he had quite the pick of change to sort through.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I remember collecting in the 1960's and consider them to be the bad old days. There were no professional third party authentication or grading services at that time. The marketplace had many counterfeits (especially gold coins and key dates with added mint marks), over-graded coins, doctored coins, etc. As an example, I remember see a dealer at a coin show selling a highly polished classic commemorative coin as being a proof coin. >>
Let the record reflect that I totally agree with Perry Hall.
Coin Rarities Online
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I remember collecting in the 1960's and consider them to be the bad old days. There were no professional third party authentication or grading services at that time. The marketplace had many counterfeits (especially gold coins and key dates with added mint marks), over-graded coins, doctored coins, etc. As an example, I remember see a dealer at a coin show selling a highly polished classic commemorative coin as being a proof coin. New collectors had to pay their dues and it was very expensive. It was because of these gross rip offs and abuses that third party grading became extremely popular. >>
I was a YN in the 1960s, and I did not see things as being this bad. Yes, there were dues to pay just as there is today, but there were dealers who were ready to help me as a young collector to learn the ropes. Yes, there were crooked dealers who out to get you, but I didn't deal with them. I paid more but it was worth it.
<< <i>The 1960's was the pre-internet era and most collecting was done by mail order using dealer price lists and ads in the usual coin publications. Usually there were no pics and one had to depended on the dealer's grading and their written descriptions. One could waste a lot on postage returning over graded, misdescribed problem coins before discovering those few dealers that that you could trust to buy from. With PCGS and NGC slabbing and good internet pics on dealer web sites, buying mail order coins is far less of a crap shoot. These are truly the good old days for coin collectors. >>
This pretty well sums up why I purchased virtually no coins by mail in the 1960s, and explains why I buy very few coins before I see them today. When you buy sight unseen, you are at the mercy of the seller, and certification, including CAC, improves the situation a bit, but it does not remedy it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>While you could possibly obtain a 1796 quarter in VF for a few hundred dollars back then, the problem is that you most likely would not have had a few hundred dollars to spend on coins in 1960. $100 was a lot of money in 1960 for the average person. Even back then, building a quality coin collection depended on how much money you could spend on the hobby.
Bob >>
Such a great point. It's hard to look at a Red Book from those days and not think how cheap they were, even adjusting for inflation. But people forget how hard money was to come by in those days. >>
On the flip side, a 1903-O Morgan was about $20,000 at that time with only a handful known. They dropped to about $10 each when the GSA audit found a couple hundred thousand in the Mint vaults.
Edit to add: I amy be high on the cost of the 1903-O. I do recall one book stating that each was worth as much as 10 Cadillacs before the stash was found. >>
The 1904-O Morgan was a super rare coin also until the government release and is now one of the most common BU Morgans. A vg (or any grade below MS60 for that matter), 1904-O Morgan is much scarcer then a BU one. My dad was fortunate enough to obtain an original BU bag of 1000-- 1904-O Morgan dollars still with the tag on it from the New Orleans mint in 1962. He gave a few away and sold some for $1.25 early on and he sold the rest of them in 2003.
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<< <i>I remember collecting in the 1960's and consider them to be the bad old days. There were no professional third party authentication or grading services at that time. The marketplace had many counterfeits (especially gold coins and key dates with added mint marks), over-graded coins, doctored coins, etc. As an example, I remember see a dealer at a coin show selling a highly polished classic commemorative coin as being a proof coin. New collectors had to pay their dues and it was very expensive. It was because of these gross rip offs and abuses that third party grading became extremely popular. >>
I was a YN in the 1960s, and I did not see things as being this bad. Yes, there were dues to pay just as there is today, but there were dealers who were ready to help me as a young collector to learn the ropes. Yes, there were crooked dealers who out to get you, but I didn't deal with them. I paid more but it was worth it.
<< <i>The 1960's was the pre-internet era and most collecting was done by mail order using dealer price lists and ads in the usual coin publications. Usually there were no pics and one had to depended on the dealer's grading and their written descriptions. One could waste a lot on postage returning over graded, misdescribed problem coins before discovering those few dealers that that you could trust to buy from. With PCGS and NGC slabbing and good internet pics on dealer web sites, buying mail order coins is far less of a crap shoot. These are truly the good old days for coin collectors. >>
This pretty well sums up why I purchased virtually no coins by mail in the 1960s, and explains why I buy very few coins before I see them today. When you buy sight unseen, you are at the mercy of the seller, and certification, including CAC, improves the situation a bit, but it does not remedy it. >>
Lucky was the new collector in the 1960's that lived near a good coin shop, had nearby coin shows, and had a local coin club where he could be mentored by some experienced collectors. Not every new collector was so lucky.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I was a YN in the 1960s, and I did not see things as being this bad. >>
I collected U.S. gold coins and had to learn authentication real fast by buying several reference books on the subject and by studying them. It was a rare coin show where I didn't find at least one or two counterfeit gold coins. Don't forget that all coins were raw back then. I would tell the dealer and they would remove them from their case and then would usually put them back in their case after I left their table. Over grading was rampant, harshly cleaned and whizzed coins were very common, and there were numerous counterfeits in the marketplace. The professional third party grading and authentication services are extremely popular with collectors for a reason. And yes, there were many good dealers that I bought from once I finally figured out who they were. As an example, I bought many coins from J J Teaparty who always gave accurate descriptions and grades in their written ads.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I collected U.S. gold coins and had to learn authentication real fast by buying several reference books on the subject and by studying them. It was a rare coin show where I didn't find at least one or two counterfeit gold coins. Don't forget that all coins were raw back then. I would tell the dealer and they would remove them from their case and then would usually put them back in their case after I left their table. Over grading was rampant, harshly cleaned and whizzed coins were very common, and there were numerous counterfeits in the marketplace. The professional third party grading and authentication services are extremely popular with collectors for a reason. And yes, there were many good dealers that I bought from once I finally figured out who they were. As an example, I bought many coins from J J Teaparty who always gave accurate descriptions and grades in their written ads. >>
(Bolded portion for emphasis)...Imagine that. Actually having to LEARN something about a hobby before just willy nilly spending your money...wow, what a concept!