Something I read the other day reminded me of a topic that I believe is a common misconception
shish
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"Well it was originaly blast white when it left the mint so you could say that it is more original after the work."
Last year I wrote an article that discusses this topic in detail.
It was published in the Gobrecht Journal issue 113, it's titled "Business Strike Seated Dollars with Natural Surfaces"
Below are three short excerpts:
"A silver coin that has been dipped white is not as struck! Dipping a coin causes it to lose weight.
"The whiteness of a silver coin has nothing to do with it being mint state."
"Experts agree the toning that occurs after dipping, natural or not, will be different from the toning that
would have occurred had the coin never been dipped."
Last year I wrote an article that discusses this topic in detail.
It was published in the Gobrecht Journal issue 113, it's titled "Business Strike Seated Dollars with Natural Surfaces"
Below are three short excerpts:
"A silver coin that has been dipped white is not as struck! Dipping a coin causes it to lose weight.
"The whiteness of a silver coin has nothing to do with it being mint state."
"Experts agree the toning that occurs after dipping, natural or not, will be different from the toning that
would have occurred had the coin never been dipped."
Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
0
Comments
<< <i>The OP has valid points.... however, BillJones is correct..... done properly, it is unlikely even an expert eye will determine a dipped coin. Yes, in time, it MAY tarnish differently, depending on the dipping/cleaning process. That will depend entirely on how it was dipped, if done correctly, it will again tarnish as natural. Cheers, RickO >>
It's probably good to keep in mind that even a coin dipped long ago can look very attractive, and shouldn't necessarily be avoided just because it was dipped.
<< <i>"A silver coin that has been dipped white is not as struck! Dipping a coin causes it to lose weight. >>
Dipping removes silver sulfide, not metallic silver. The actual damage to the coin occurs before dipping. The coin is irreversibly changed the moment the sulfur bonds with the silver to form silver sulfide (toning). Toning causes the coin to gain weight. All that dipping does is remove this new Ag2S compound. The coin loses its original white luster the first time it tones.
The common misconception is that it's the dipping that damages the coin, but it is really the process of toning that permanently alters the surface. Dipping removes the product of this change. You can dip a white coin repeatedly without changing the appearance, as long as the coin is not allowed to re-tone in the interim. What causes the "dipped out" look is the repeated tone-dip-tone-dip cycle.
You can either leave the toning there, or strip it away and let more damage occur. I prefer to leave the toning there. A dipped coin should never be called "original," but they can still be attractive.
<< <i>
<< <i>"A silver coin that has been dipped white is not as struck! Dipping a coin causes it to lose weight. >>
Dipping removes silver sulfide, not metallic silver. The actual damage to the coin occurs before dipping. The coin is irreversibly changed the moment the sulfur bonds with the silver to form silver sulfide (toning). Toning causes the coin to gain weight. All that dipping does is remove this new Ag2S compound. The coin loses its original white luster the first time it tones.
The common misconception is that it's the dipping that damages the coin, but it is really the process of toning that permanently alters the surface. Dipping removes the product of this change. You can dip a white coin repeatedly without changing the appearance, as long as the coin is not allowed to re-tone in the interim. What causes the "dipped out" look is the repeated tone-dip-tone-dip cycle.
You can either leave the toning there, or strip it away and let more damage occur. I prefer to leave the toning there. A dipped coin should never be called "original," but they can still be attractive. >>
This is a great comment. Thanks for taking the time.
<< <i>The following statement from a recent thread is a common misconception.
"Well it was originaly blast white when it left the mint so you could say that it is more original after the work."
Last year I wrote an article that discusses this topic in detail.
It was published in the Gobrecht Journal issue 113, it's titled "Business Strike Seated Dollars with Natural Surfaces"
Below are three short excerpts:
"A silver coin that has been dipped white is not as struck! Dipping a coin causes it to lose weight.
"The whiteness of a silver coin has nothing to do with it being mint state."
"Experts agree the toning that occurs after dipping, natural or not, will be different from the toning that
would have occurred had the coin never been dipped." >>
Wow really
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
The fact that should not be over looked is that these early coins began toning immediately after the minting process, they rarely survived white. The one exception to my knowledge is the 1962 to 1964 Treasury release of mint state 1859-O and 1860-O Seated dollars. Therefore the tone-dip-tone-dip cycle you correctly refer to began long ago.
I question this statement "You can dip a white coin repeatedly without changing the appearance, as long as the coin is not allowed to re-tone in the interim."
Because of the potential effects of dipping on a coin’s flow lines.
Two additional excerpts from the same article.
Dipping simply removes the top few atomic layers of the coin's metal, also known as the "skin", "patina" or "toning" from a coin's surface. On a silver coin what is removed is the outermost layer of silver, typically in the form of the thin layer of silver sulfide or silver oxide that forms on the surface of the coin over time. These silver compounds are produced by oxidation.” It is also in these outermost atomic layers of the coin's metal where flow lines will be most obviously present. These are the raised lines that are on the surface of the coin after minting. These lines are from the flowing of the metal during the minting (striking) process. It is the scatter of light off of these lines that gives a coin its flash and that causes the cartwheel luster seen on MS coins. By removing this surface and the flow lines present in this area, the coin is more smooth and light does not bounce off the same way as previously; these coins may appear dull or lifeless.
I think of the flow lines as the ridges and valleys on a coin’s surface. They scatter reflected light causing our eyes to see luster or mint frost. When layers are stripped via dipping, the characteristics of the reflected light are changed. The change in the reflected light changes our perception of a coin’s appearance and luster.
Dipped it gently and (hyper-cautious) rinsed it in boiled distilled water (heated in my microwave in a glass bowl) using a coffee filter (twice, new water each time) to avoid pain. Repeated this process and dried it with a hair blower. Came back from a show submission 65 and I sold it immediately to Jack Lee, who knew his Morgans, at bid. He had THE MS69, so he didn't need it for his set
I don't know exactly what this proves other than I've got cojones (though I knew there was no downside) and can get lucky (often enough), but connect the dots. Morgans may be the most dramatic instance in which dipping is "market acceptable". As I've said previously, I'm a numismatic slut and a market whore. They have a reciprocal relationship.
This was not putting lipstick on a pig, just rinsing off what what was, analogously, bad skin care.
How many microns? Hardly anyone grades with an SEM.
For others of a more theological persuasion, YMMV.
I have a silver coin which was dipped in front of my eyes. It was in a 2 by 2 holder for I don't know how many years / decades, and had developed a yellowish sulfur oxide layer on its surfaces. The dip removed the sulfur oxide layer, and the coin looked like it had just come from the mint. If you can spot this sort of thing, you're a better man than I am.
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