Man, early 80s OPC has really risen in value...I remember buying 82 OPC wax boxes for like $35 a box a decade ago..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I can't understand the '82 OPC prices. With no Ripken in the set I'm struggling to understand why they're so much more expensive than 1983 and just about the price of an 1981.
<< <i> The 81 OPC seems near impossible to find, as does late 80's. >>
I'm at least partly responsible for the OPC. I cleaned BBCE out of a lot of things and also got their last '81 Box.
Arthur >>
I bought a BBCE 81 OPC on eBay. Not sure how much BBCE had it for, but it was not exactly cheap. I cant find 1988, 1989, 1990 or 1991 OPC anywhere - hi or low. I have a few 1992 OPC, but those seem easy to get. As for years before that, 87 and 86 seem relatively common and cheap. 85 is not cheap or common. 84 is easy and cheap. And then anything before that starts to get expensive.
I'm just wondering if some of the shortage of the 80's product is just part of a normal business cycle for Steve. It seems that we hear about buying trips more as we approach National. My guess is inventory is at its highest somewhere between National and the holiday season. It would make sense if this was somewhat seasonal.
<< <i> The 81 OPC seems near impossible to find, as does late 80's. >>
I'm at least partly responsible for the OPC. I cleaned BBCE out of a lot of things and also got their last '81 Box.
Arthur >>
I bought a BBCE 81 OPC on eBay. Not sure how much BBCE had it for, but it was not exactly cheap. I cant find 1988, 1989, 1990 or 1991 OPC anywhere - hi or low. I have a few 1992 OPC, but those seem easy to get. As for years before that, 87 and 86 seem relatively common and cheap. 85 is not cheap or common. 84 is easy and cheap. And then anything before that starts to get expensive. >>
I haven't been doing this for that long so take my opinion with a grain of salt but I don't really see a difference between the 84 and 85 OPC unopened in either price or availability. I bought (4) 84 and (2) 85 from BBCE and I'm pretty sure they were the same price (~$35/ea). There seems to be a decent amount of 82-87 on ebay, just a matter of catching an auction and trusting the seller (not sure I would buy unopened wax off ebay).
I'm sure Steve will get some more in. Most of it is probably up in Canada and who wants to go up to Canada and deal with either customs or shipping for stuff that isn't much more than junk wax.
I haven't been doing this for that long so take my opinion with a grain of salt but I don't really see a difference between the 84 and 85 OPC unopened in either price or availability. I bought (4) 84 and (2) 85 from BBCE and I'm pretty sure they were the same price (~$35/ea). There seems to be a decent amount of 82-87 on ebay, just a matter of catching an auction and trusting the seller (not sure I would buy unopened wax off ebay).
I'm sure Steve will get some more in. Most of it is probably up in Canada and who wants to go up to Canada and deal with either customs or shipping for stuff that isn't much more than junk wax.
Arthur >>
I will buy certain wax off eBay. Stuff from 87 there probably is not much tampering, nor from 86. Although I recently ripped 2 boxes of 89 Fleer and no Johnson or Ripken and only 1 Griffey. So it was a bit strange. I bought them from a local store.
Lahmejoon, I don't see this as part of a normal cycle at all, as Kruk and Dave and Adams new stock has dwindled now for well over a year as well. And I am not even talking about 1970s stuff, but rather about mid 1980s to early 1990s stuff. The boxes I am looking for from those years rarely show up anymore, and the few that do are priced much higher than ever before (and people are often paying those prices). And it seems you can pretty much forget about ever seeing a sealed case again.
Like I stated earlier, for at least the past decade or more, Kruk would regularly get in hundreds of cases at a time from this era. And to move it to make room for the next truck load, they would discount the cases 10% the first week, then 20% the next week and so on up to 50% off. I live somewhat close to them, so I have always followed their stock and have purchased many cases from them over the years. Almost all of the new stuff they have had in the past year has been non-sports junk they can't move.
I think the reason for this is that we are at a cross-road between a time when the majority of wax has finally begun to dry up and a time when many collectors from the mid 1980s-early 1990s era (the peak of the hobby) are returning to the hobby and are looking for wax from the same era.
I noticed BBCE has 1983 Topps Michigan Test Wax in again, but raised the 1983 Topps wax to $150 from $140. Still a good price. Looks like 1985 Topps also has gone up in price.
its not a criticism of Steve, but a comment on the market prices, especially of 80's stuff.
+1
No one I felt was attacking or criticizing. If anymore, just observing on how prices have been going on the rise as of lately, particularly noticeable with 80's products. 1986 Donruss he just got back in his inventory and has now risen to $30.00. 1982 Donruss I think jumped from $75 to 80. 1986 Topps also jumped from $13 to $16 I noticed the other day and now that’s also gone again. Seems people have no problem paying these prices.
I think this is the begining of the market drying up as more and more people keep ripping. It's clear from Steves site that price increases may mean that these products may be becoming harder to find still sealed.
<< <i>its not a criticism of Steve, but a comment on the market prices, especially of 80's stuff.
+1
No one I felt was attacking or criticizing. If anymore, just observing on how prices have been going on the rise as of lately, particularly noticeable with 80's products. 1986 Donruss he just got back in his inventory and has now risen to $30.00. 1982 Donruss I think jumped from $75 to 80. 1986 Topps also jumped from $13 to $16 I noticed the other day and now that’s also gone again. Seems people have no problem paying these prices.
I think this is the begining of the market drying up as more and more people keep ripping. It's clear from Steves site that price increases may mean that these products may be becoming harder to find still sealed. >>
+2
What's most remarkable about this, imo, is not so much the dearth of 70s unopened product (which can be understood) but that early 80s and even mid-80s product seems to be getting (dare I say) scarcer now too. I can recall a decade ago wondering if mid-80s product would ultimately wind up going lower after all the PED scandals.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>What's most remarkable about this, imo, is not so much the dearth of 70s unopened product (which can be understood) but that early 80s and even mid-80s product seems to be getting (dare I say) scarcer now too. I can recall a decade ago wondering if mid-80s product would ultimately wind up going lower after all the PED scandals. >>
Agree with you. Even six months ago Steve had wax cases of 1989, 1990, 1991 Topps. And rack cases of some of these. Now he has none but does still have boxes.
As long as the price is low due to a perceived glut that may not actually exist, the supply will dwindle quickly on the mid-80s to early 90s unopened product as people get it cheaply. Sometime soon this disparity between supply and price is going to become even more obvious and prices will go up.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
I believe Steve raised his prices when he saw that his own product with his cello wrapped seals were selling more in the aftermarket than some of his prices on the web site and members have been advertising to pay more for these boxes than Steve. I have seen a big jump in football from the mid 70s to early 80s. Larry Fritsch has the only big supply of 70s stuff and they are letting it creep on the market. With the big jump in prices from the 70s the person purchasing the unopened stuff is probably going to keep it closed and hope for another jump. Opening it would not be profitable. For what some of this stuff has risen to lets say 1979 BB wax box, you could purchase a real nice PSA 9 Ozzie Smith.
<< <i>I believe Steve raised his prices when he saw that his own product with his cello wrapped seals were selling more in the aftermarket than some of his prices on the web site and members have been advertising to pay more for these boxes than Steve. I have seen a big jump in football from the mid 70s to early 80s. Larry Fritsch has the only big supply of 70s stuff and they are letting it creep on the market. With the big jump in prices from the 70s the person purchasing the unopened stuff is probably going to keep it closed and hope for another jump. Opening it would not be profitable. For what some of this stuff has risen to lets say 1979 BB wax box, you could purchase a real nice PSA 9 Ozzie Smith. >>
One thing to remember is the price you see on Steve's website is the price you pay. With Fritsch, his catalog is junk. He may have a box listed for $200 but when you call, he has to check and comes back with a $400 price tag.
I would laugh ten years ago when I thought the idea of 80's wax being considered scarce or going up in value within the next millinium. However there might be a valid case to argue now. Even a couple of guys last month were discussing that this was getting more popular and harder to find. After looking over the facts, I believe this to be true. I would have never thought that these mid 80's would be desired, but truth be told the value to collectors to open boxes of this product today is so very affordable and let's face it a blast to open. Today where two card packs run $12, a box of 1986 Topps for $30 is a very good value.
Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
So we all agree the product is selling right now? I think its a sellers market right now. Product is hot and hype. The cards inside are worth far less than the product inside. Meaning more will keep them unopened. Simple example. What have 1951 Topps Red Back wax packs done?
I would think a 1951 Topps Red back would be a 500.00 pack. But its not. 2 cards? To many packs? not enough demand? No rookies? Not sure. But its a 100.00 pack from before the famous 1952 Topps Set which goes for over 5000.00 So its a fun hobby for sure. And unopend has fun options. Its a 100.00 pack all day long for the next 10 years in my opinion.
<< <i>I would laugh ten years ago when I thought the idea of 80's wax being considered scarce or going up in value within the next millinium. However there might be a valid case to argue now. Even a couple of guys last month were discussing that this was getting more popular and harder to find. After looking over the facts, I believe this to be true. I would have never thought that these mid 80's would be desired, but truth be told the value to collectors to open boxes of this product today is so very affordable and let's face it a blast to open. Today where two card packs run $12, a box of 1986 Topps for $30 is a very good value. >>
...it's for this reason that I am pleased to offer a ground floor opportunity for discerning buyers. Let me tell you a little bit about 1990 Donruss, the true sleeper of the 20th century...
<< <i>What have 1951 Topps Red Back wax packs done?
I would think a 1951 Topps Red back would be a 500.00 pack. But its not. 2 cards? To many packs? not enough demand? No rookies? Not sure. But its a 100.00 pack from before the famous 1952 Topps Set which goes for over 5000.00 So its a fun hobby for sure. And unopend has fun options. Its a 100.00 pack all day long for the next 10 years in my opinion. >>
No offense to anyone who collects 51 Topps Red Backs (I think they're cool), but they are kind of a second tier set.
Similar to 1960 Leaf baseball.
-I think the red back packs are cheap for the same reason 50's penny packs are cheap. The excitment value diminishs with 1 or 2 cards. I think they're cheaper than '55 Topps double header packs (I think 1 or 2 cards in those) because they are more plentiful.
The red back packs are kind of like '54 bowman football penny packs. Probably $90-120 for years.
<< <i>Are they sold out? I'm still seeing 81 and 84 boxes on their website. >>
I dont think he has anymore 81... >>
1981 is there at $500 a box, as is 84 at the same price. Maybe he has not updated his site. But FB to BB is a big difference in price, and I assume quantity as well.
<< <i>Maybe he has not updated his site. But FB to BB is a big difference in price, and I assume quantity as well. >>
Some estimates are that baseball was produced 10x more than football up until the 80s.
I think football is a possible sleeper market that could really increase in price if enough new vintage football collectors emerge. But that's not clearly going to happen. The football collectors that I know personally prefer modern (post 1995).
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
<< <i>I would laugh ten years ago when I thought the idea of 80's wax being considered scarce or going up in value within the next millinium. However there might be a valid case to argue now. Even a couple of guys last month were discussing that this was getting more popular and harder to find. After looking over the facts, I believe this to be true. I would have never thought that these mid 80's would be desired, but truth be told the value to collectors to open boxes of this product today is so very affordable and let's face it a blast to open. Today where two card packs run $12, a box of 1986 Topps for $30 is a very good value. >>
...it's for this reason that I am pleased to offer a ground floor opportunity for discerning buyers. Let me tell you a little bit about 1990 Donruss, the true sleeper of the 20th century... >>
What's your price on 1990 Donruss wax cases? If it's low enough there is money to be made with PSA 10 cards. Ryan regularly goes for $20 and Griffey does well, as do some HOF players.
In a wax box that costs $7 there is almost always $50 of graded cards. People just don't have the interest in doing it. Yet..........
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
<< <i>I would laugh ten years ago when I thought the idea of 80's wax being considered scarce or going up in value within the next millinium. However there might be a valid case to argue now. Even a couple of guys last month were discussing that this was getting more popular and harder to find. After looking over the facts, I believe this to be true. I would have never thought that these mid 80's would be desired, but truth be told the value to collectors to open boxes of this product today is so very affordable and let's face it a blast to open. Today where two card packs run $12, a box of 1986 Topps for $30 is a very good value. >>
...it's for this reason that I am pleased to offer a ground floor opportunity for discerning buyers. Let me tell you a little bit about 1990 Donruss, the true sleeper of the 20th century... >>
What's your price on 1990 Donruss wax cases? If it's low enough there is money to be made with PSA 10 cards. Ryan regularly goes for $20 and Griffey does well, as do some HOF players.
In a wax box that costs $7 there is almost always $50 of graded cards. People just don't have the interest in doing it. Yet.......... >>
I'd slit my wrists before I completed the process of cracking open a $7 box, found the gradeable cards, dealt with storing/trashing the rest, packaged everything up to send to PSA, waited, then listed everthing on eBay, then packaged it up for sale...all for a $43 profit.
<< <i>I'd slit my wrists before I completed the process of cracking open a $7 box, found the gradeable cards, dealt with storing/trashing the rest, packaged everything up to send to PSA, waited, then listed everthing on eBay, then packaged it up for sale...all for a $43 profit.
My times worth more than minimum wage. >>
You clearly don't enjoy opening older wax packs. Very few people do it solely with profit in mind. By the way, you "waste" more time on here telling everybody how you dislike unopened wax than you would enjoying opening a wax box.
<< <i>I'd slit my wrists before I completed the process of cracking open a $7 box, found the gradeable cards, dealt with storing/trashing the rest, packaged everything up to send to PSA, waited, then listed everthing on eBay, then packaged it up for sale...all for a $43 profit.
My times worth more than minimum wage. >>
You clearly don't enjoy opening older wax packs. Very few people do it solely with profit in mind. By the way, you "waste" more time on here telling everybody how you dislike unopened wax than you would enjoying opening a wax box. >>
Actually I've never said I dislike opening unopened wax. Its pretty fun. however the post i was responding to....to do it for profit...seems less like fun and more like a chore. And in fact I'm almost finished assembling a run of 1981 to 1991 cello boxes. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.
Btw, posting from my phone while on the way to work or at work is hardly a waste of time.
You clearly don't enjoy opening older wax packs. Very few people do it solely with profit in mind. By the way, you "waste" more time on here telling everybody how you dislike unopened wax than you would enjoying opening a wax box.
^^Not one of your best comments on here. I actually found it to be an ignorant statement above all else. Nothing personal however.
<< <i>I'd slit my wrists before I completed the process of cracking open a $7 box, found the gradeable cards, dealt with storing/trashing the rest, packaged everything up to send to PSA, waited, then listed everthing on eBay, then packaged it up for sale...all for a $43 profit.
My times worth more than minimum wage. >>
You clearly don't enjoy opening older wax packs. Very few people do it solely with profit in mind. By the way, you "waste" more time on here telling everybody how you dislike unopened wax than you would enjoying opening a wax box. >>
Actually I've never said I dislike opening unopened wax. Its pretty fun. however the post i was responding to....to do it for profit...seems less like fun and more like a chore. And in fact I'm almost finished assembling a run of 1981 to 1991 cello boxes. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. >>
I think he's confused. You're the one that keeps saying the prices are over inflated and the only reason things are going up are a few collectors with deep pockets and that the sky is falling. That being said, I haven't seen you specifically bask the investment potential of unopened wax
The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>I'd slit my wrists before I completed the process of cracking open a $7 box, found the gradeable cards, dealt with storing/trashing the rest, packaged everything up to send to PSA, waited, then listed everthing on eBay, then packaged it up for sale...all for a $43 profit.
My times worth more than minimum wage. >>
Minimum wage must be high in your state -- it's nowhere near $43 per hour here.
Which is about how much time it takes me to open a box, rip the packs, then review to get 4-5 PSA 10 cards that should NET at least $15 apiece.
It's not for everybody. But can be done at home while watching TV or just relaxing.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
<< <i>And if you love ripping packs, it could be fun too! >>
To me, thats the bottom line. I dont rip packs, but, if someone enjoys doing it and can make a buck or 2 doing it, then why not. All that time "wasted" was enjoyed. Just my $.02
Generally I will rip late 80's early 90's to weed stars and chuck the rest. I will not sit there to examine a common even if it means a 10. I believe a better logic, however, can be applied to newer stuff as it is expensive already and computer cut (presumably) and more often than not a centered and sharp card.
The previous three posts pretty much sum up my feelings about busting junk wax boxes.
Fun activity, keep the HOF players and cull the potential PSA 10 from that. Not really looking to make money, but building a set of all 1980-92 HOF players in PSA 10 and if I get dupe PSA 10s they help pay for others to be graded later.
Commons go in the recycle bin.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
<< <i>The previous three posts pretty much sum up my feelings about busting junk wax boxes.
Fun activity, keep the HOF players and cull the potential PSA 10 from that. Not really looking to make money, but building a set of all 1980-92 HOF players in PSA 10 and if I get dupe PSA 10s they help pay for others to be graded later.
Commons go in the recycle bin. >>
I hold 80-86 is a little higher esteem than 87+ commons. So I actually keep those and build sets from them. 87+ commons, as you say, go in the recycle bin to make the unopened commons that much rarer.
<< <i>The previous three posts pretty much sum up my feelings about busting junk wax boxes.
Fun activity, keep the HOF players and cull the potential PSA 10 from that. Not really looking to make money, but building a set of all 1980-92 HOF players in PSA 10 and if I get dupe PSA 10s they help pay for others to be graded later.
Commons go in the recycle bin. >>
I hold 80-86 is a little higher esteem than 87+ commons. So I actually keep those and build sets from them. 87+ commons, as you say, go in the recycle bin to make the unopened commons that much rarer. >>
Somewhere around 1987 or 1988 they really cranked up the printing presses making commons virtually useless except for set-builders. Since I am not a complete-set collector I've always dispensed with them for those years.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
This seems to assume all the ones you know will be 10's actually come back as 10's. I donated several 9's (and lower) to Goodwill in recent years that were worthless. I think you need to factor in one or two failures per box. That is submit 5 or 6 and assume 4 come back as 10's and 1 or 2 a worthless 9.
<< <i>This seems to assume all the ones you know will be 10's actually come back as 10's. I donated several 9's (and lower) to Goodwill in recent years that were worthless. I think you need to factor in one or two failures per box. That is submit 5 or 6 and assume 4 come back as 10's and 1 or 2 a worthless 9. >>
This is true. And the number of submissions that already exist for, say, 1987 Topps, is pushing maximum density itself where, one has to question whether it is worthwhile even for a 10.
<< <i>This seems to assume all the ones you know will be 10's actually come back as 10's. I donated several 9's (and lower) to Goodwill in recent years that were worthless. I think you need to factor in one or two failures per box. That is submit 5 or 6 and assume 4 come back as 10's and 1 or 2 a worthless 9. >>
I only submit 10s. Sometimes the graders screw up and give me a 9. It's taken a year to train the graders but it seems they're finally getting the hang of it.
My last completed sub was 29 for 32 -- so they missed three.
I recently did a 42-card submission so we'll see if the graders are getting better.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
This really is a great thread. Awesome. I am only half way through reading and wanted to reply to about 100 posts so far. Can't do that so all I can do is offer up a little advice from experience.
Don't fret about what is out there. If you have the means then by all means, GRIP IT AND RIP IT.
People don't generally pick up my sarcastic tone until they see it a bit.
But the 29 of 32 really did happen. The next sub could be 15 or 20 PSA 10 out of 42. Who knows? I'll post the results when they come in so everyone can have a good laugh.
Or not. I use the GoldenEye grading system -- and it's pretty decent.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
80's products continue to rise with the latest being 1986 Fleer baseball. Went from $28 to $36 dollars a wax box. This is starting to look so bad that I now find myself looking at 90's products. Get ready because the 70's are now becoming the 80's. Still not a believer, just look at the group rips.
<< <i>80's products continue to rise with the latest being 1986 Fleer baseball. Went from $28 to $36 dollars a wax box. This is starting to look so bad that I now find myself looking at 90's products. Get ready because the 70's are now becoming the 80's. Still not a believer, just look at the group rips. >>
No question about it. Anything unopened 1980s to early 1990s with a future HOF rookie card to shoot for gets eaten up right away. A few days ago Kruk listed 2 sealed 1989 Hoops series 1 20 box cases. I thought about it for a day and when I went to go ahead and purchase them, they had already been sold.
<< <i>80's products continue to rise with the latest being 1986 Fleer baseball. Went from $28 to $36 dollars a wax box. This is starting to look so bad that I now find myself looking at 90's products. Get ready because the 70's are now becoming the 80's. Still not a believer, just look at the group rips. >>
I noticed this as well. I bought a box of 86 Fleer at the last group rip for $28 and was surprised it went up $8! Also I see an 85 Fleer Cello box now at $140! I think I picked one up late last year around $95.
Besides 84 Donruss, I am seeing a trend in general throughout the 80's that Fleer holds a premium over both Topps and Donruss by about $5-$10 more. The 85 box being near double in price. Any reason for this?
<< <i>80's products continue to rise with the latest being 1986 Fleer baseball. Went from $28 to $36 dollars a wax box. This is starting to look so bad that I now find myself looking at 90's products. Get ready because the 70's are now becoming the 80's. Still not a believer, just look at the group rips. >>
No question about it. Anything unopened 1980s to early 1990s with a future HOF rookie card to shoot for gets eaten up right away. A few days ago Kruk listed 2 sealed 1989 Hoops series 1 20 box cases. I thought about it for a day and when I went to go ahead and purchase them, they had already been sold. >>
Right -- game on.
Even the ubiquitous 1989 Topps is geting harder to find in wax case quantity. BBCE no longer sells 1988-91 tops by the wax case. But they did as late as January. Kruk still has 1989 Topps cases but they'll be gone soon. Even 1988, with a below-average rookie class, is getting eaten up quickly and 1987 as well.
Soon it will be post-1991 if you want want earlier Topps wax by the case. You'll still be able to get boxes of 1987-91 wax easily, but they'll cost more.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the PSA 10 collector he didn't exist.
<< <i>80's products continue to rise with the latest being 1986 Fleer baseball. Went from $28 to $36 dollars a wax box. This is starting to look so bad that I now find myself looking at 90's products. Get ready because the 70's are now becoming the 80's. Still not a believer, just look at the group rips. >>
No question about it. Anything unopened 1980s to early 1990s with a future HOF rookie card to shoot for gets eaten up right away. A few days ago Kruk listed 2 sealed 1989 Hoops series 1 20 box cases. I thought about it for a day and when I went to go ahead and purchase them, they had already been sold. >>
Right -- game on.
Even the ubiquitous 1989 Topps is geting harder to find in wax case quantity. BBCE no longer sells 1988-91 tops by the wax case. But they did as late as January. Kruk still has 1989 Topps cases but they'll be gone soon. Even 1988, with a below-average rookie class, is getting eaten up quickly and 1987 as well.
Soon it will be post-1991 if you want want earlier Topps wax by the case. You'll still be able to get boxes of 1987-91 wax easily, but they'll cost more. >>
I remember the last time 1988-1992 product was used as an investment. I just have to believe there are just TONS of this stuff sitting around.
Comments
<< <i> The 81 OPC seems near impossible to find, as does late 80's. >>
I'm at least partly responsible for the OPC. I cleaned BBCE out of a lot of things and also got their last '81 Box.
Arthur
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Arthur
<< <i>
<< <i> The 81 OPC seems near impossible to find, as does late 80's. >>
I'm at least partly responsible for the OPC. I cleaned BBCE out of a lot of things and also got their last '81 Box.
Arthur >>
I bought a BBCE 81 OPC on eBay. Not sure how much BBCE had it for, but it was not exactly cheap. I cant find 1988, 1989, 1990 or 1991 OPC anywhere - hi or low. I have a few 1992 OPC, but those seem easy to get. As for years before that, 87 and 86 seem relatively common and cheap. 85 is not cheap or common. 84 is easy and cheap. And then anything before that starts to get expensive.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> The 81 OPC seems near impossible to find, as does late 80's. >>
I'm at least partly responsible for the OPC. I cleaned BBCE out of a lot of things and also got their last '81 Box.
Arthur >>
I bought a BBCE 81 OPC on eBay. Not sure how much BBCE had it for, but it was not exactly cheap. I cant find 1988, 1989, 1990 or 1991 OPC anywhere - hi or low. I have a few 1992 OPC, but those seem easy to get. As for years before that, 87 and 86 seem relatively common and cheap. 85 is not cheap or common. 84 is easy and cheap. And then anything before that starts to get expensive. >>
I haven't been doing this for that long so take my opinion with a grain of salt but I don't really see a difference between the 84 and 85 OPC unopened in either price or availability. I bought (4) 84 and (2) 85 from BBCE and I'm pretty sure they were the same price (~$35/ea). There seems to be a decent amount of 82-87 on ebay, just a matter of catching an auction and trusting the seller (not sure I would buy unopened wax off ebay).
I'm sure Steve will get some more in. Most of it is probably up in Canada and who wants to go up to Canada and deal with either customs or shipping for stuff that isn't much more than junk wax.
Arthur
<< <i>
I haven't been doing this for that long so take my opinion with a grain of salt but I don't really see a difference between the 84 and 85 OPC unopened in either price or availability. I bought (4) 84 and (2) 85 from BBCE and I'm pretty sure they were the same price (~$35/ea). There seems to be a decent amount of 82-87 on ebay, just a matter of catching an auction and trusting the seller (not sure I would buy unopened wax off ebay).
I'm sure Steve will get some more in. Most of it is probably up in Canada and who wants to go up to Canada and deal with either customs or shipping for stuff that isn't much more than junk wax.
Arthur >>
I will buy certain wax off eBay. Stuff from 87 there probably is not much tampering, nor from 86. Although I recently ripped 2 boxes of 89 Fleer and no Johnson or Ripken and only 1 Griffey. So it was a bit strange. I bought them from a local store.
Like I stated earlier, for at least the past decade or more, Kruk would regularly get in hundreds of cases at a time from this era. And to move it to make room for the next truck load, they would discount the cases 10% the first week, then 20% the next week and so on up to 50% off. I live somewhat close to them, so I have always followed their stock and have purchased many cases from them over the years. Almost all of the new stuff they have had in the past year has been non-sports junk they can't move.
I think the reason for this is that we are at a cross-road between a time when the majority of wax has finally begun to dry up and a time when many collectors from the mid 1980s-early 1990s era (the peak of the hobby) are returning to the hobby and are looking for wax from the same era.
-80's football has gone up. 84 Topps football, $500 for a box? Use to be $450. 89 Score, $300.
-84/85 OPC hockey. $1,050? Didn't it use to be $600? $550, around that area. I notice he's sold out, of even 90/91 OPC Premier hockey.
He had a Garbage Pail kids 2nd series box that sold pretty quick.
Also some of the basketball prices. 88/89 and 89/90 Fleer have gone up.
Frankly, I am surprised he hasn't raised his buy prices even more. And if he is paying more, why would you NOT expect him to be charging more?
<< <i>well what is Steve supposed to do? he can't get in much inventory, so he raises his sell prices, and I assume is raising his buy prices.
Frankly, I am surprised he hasn't raised his buy prices even more. And if he is paying more, why would you NOT expect him to be charging more? >>
its not a criticism of Steve, but a comment on the market prices, especially of 80's stuff.
+1
No one I felt was attacking or criticizing. If anymore, just observing on how prices have been going on the rise as of lately, particularly noticeable with 80's products. 1986 Donruss he just got back in his inventory and has now risen to $30.00. 1982 Donruss I think jumped from $75 to 80. 1986 Topps also jumped from $13 to $16 I noticed the other day and now that’s also gone again. Seems people have no problem paying these prices.
I think this is the begining of the market drying up as more and more people keep ripping. It's clear from Steves site that price increases may mean that these products may be becoming harder to find still sealed.
<< <i>its not a criticism of Steve, but a comment on the market prices, especially of 80's stuff.
+1
No one I felt was attacking or criticizing. If anymore, just observing on how prices have been going on the rise as of lately, particularly noticeable with 80's products. 1986 Donruss he just got back in his inventory and has now risen to $30.00. 1982 Donruss I think jumped from $75 to 80. 1986 Topps also jumped from $13 to $16 I noticed the other day and now that’s also gone again. Seems people have no problem paying these prices.
I think this is the begining of the market drying up as more and more people keep ripping. It's clear from Steves site that price increases may mean that these products may be becoming harder to find still sealed. >>
+2
What's most remarkable about this, imo, is not so much the dearth of 70s unopened product (which can be understood) but that early 80s and even mid-80s product seems to be getting (dare I say) scarcer now too. I can recall a decade ago wondering if mid-80s product would ultimately wind up going lower after all the PED scandals.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>What's most remarkable about this, imo, is not so much the dearth of 70s unopened product (which can be understood) but that early 80s and even mid-80s product seems to be getting (dare I say) scarcer now too. I can recall a decade ago wondering if mid-80s product would ultimately wind up going lower after all the PED scandals. >>
Agree with you. Even six months ago Steve had wax cases of 1989, 1990, 1991 Topps.
And rack cases of some of these. Now he has none but does still have boxes.
As long as the price is low due to a perceived glut that may not actually exist, the
supply will dwindle quickly on the mid-80s to early 90s unopened product as people
get it cheaply. Sometime soon this disparity between supply and price is going to
become even more obvious and prices will go up.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>I believe Steve raised his prices when he saw that his own product with his cello wrapped seals were selling more in the aftermarket than some of his prices on the web site and members have been advertising to pay more for these boxes than Steve. I have seen a big jump in football from the mid 70s to early 80s. Larry Fritsch has the only big supply of 70s stuff and they are letting it creep on the market. With the big jump in prices from the 70s the person purchasing the unopened stuff is probably going to keep it closed and hope for another jump. Opening it would not be profitable. For what some of this stuff has risen to lets say 1979 BB wax box, you could purchase a real nice PSA 9 Ozzie Smith. >>
One thing to remember is the price you see on Steve's website is the price you pay. With Fritsch, his catalog is junk. He may have a box listed for $200 but when you call, he has to check and comes back with a $400 price tag.
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524
TheClockworkAngelCollection
I think its a sellers market right now. Product is hot and hype. The cards inside are worth far less than the product inside. Meaning more will keep them unopened.
Simple example.
What have 1951 Topps Red Back wax packs done?
I would think a 1951 Topps Red back would be a 500.00 pack. But its not. 2 cards? To many packs? not enough demand? No rookies? Not sure. But its a 100.00 pack from before the famous 1952 Topps Set which goes for over 5000.00
So its a fun hobby for sure. And unopend has fun options.
Its a 100.00 pack all day long for the next 10 years in my opinion.
<< <i>I would laugh ten years ago when I thought the idea of 80's wax being considered scarce or going up in value within the next millinium. However there might be a valid case to argue now. Even a couple of guys last month were discussing that this was getting more popular and harder to find. After looking over the facts, I believe this to be true. I would have never thought that these mid 80's would be desired, but truth be told the value to collectors to open boxes of this product today is so very affordable and let's face it a blast to open. Today where two card packs run $12, a box of 1986 Topps for $30 is a very good value. >>
...it's for this reason that I am pleased to offer a ground floor opportunity for discerning buyers. Let me tell you a little bit about 1990 Donruss, the true sleeper of the 20th century...
<< <i>Are they sold out? I'm still seeing 81 and 84 boxes on their website. >>
I dont think he has anymore 81...
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>What have 1951 Topps Red Back wax packs done?
I would think a 1951 Topps Red back would be a 500.00 pack. But its not. 2 cards? To many packs? not enough demand? No rookies? Not sure. But its a 100.00 pack from before the famous 1952 Topps Set which goes for over 5000.00
So its a fun hobby for sure. And unopend has fun options.
Its a 100.00 pack all day long for the next 10 years in my opinion. >>
No offense to anyone who collects 51 Topps Red Backs (I think they're cool), but they are kind of a second tier set.
Similar to 1960 Leaf baseball.
-I think the red back packs are cheap for the same reason 50's penny packs are cheap. The excitment value diminishs with 1 or 2 cards. I think they're cheaper than '55 Topps double header packs (I think 1 or 2 cards in those) because they are more plentiful.
The red back packs are kind of like '54 bowman football penny packs. Probably $90-120 for years.
<< <i>
<< <i>Are they sold out? I'm still seeing 81 and 84 boxes on their website. >>
I dont think he has anymore 81... >>
1981 is there at $500 a box, as is 84 at the same price. Maybe he has not updated his site. But FB to BB is a big difference in price, and I assume quantity as well.
<< <i>Maybe he has not updated his site. But FB to BB is a big difference in price, and I assume quantity as well. >>
Some estimates are that baseball was produced 10x more than football up until the 80s.
I think football is a possible sleeper market that could really increase in price if enough new vintage
football collectors emerge. But that's not clearly going to happen. The football collectors that I
know personally prefer modern (post 1995).
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>
<< <i>I would laugh ten years ago when I thought the idea of 80's wax being considered scarce or going up in value within the next millinium. However there might be a valid case to argue now. Even a couple of guys last month were discussing that this was getting more popular and harder to find. After looking over the facts, I believe this to be true. I would have never thought that these mid 80's would be desired, but truth be told the value to collectors to open boxes of this product today is so very affordable and let's face it a blast to open. Today where two card packs run $12, a box of 1986 Topps for $30 is a very good value. >>
...it's for this reason that I am pleased to offer a ground floor opportunity for discerning buyers. Let me tell you a little bit about 1990 Donruss, the true sleeper of the 20th century... >>
What's your price on 1990 Donruss wax cases? If it's low enough there is money to be made with PSA 10 cards.
Ryan regularly goes for $20 and Griffey does well, as do some HOF players.
In a wax box that costs $7 there is almost always $50 of graded cards. People just don't
have the interest in doing it. Yet..........
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I would laugh ten years ago when I thought the idea of 80's wax being considered scarce or going up in value within the next millinium. However there might be a valid case to argue now. Even a couple of guys last month were discussing that this was getting more popular and harder to find. After looking over the facts, I believe this to be true. I would have never thought that these mid 80's would be desired, but truth be told the value to collectors to open boxes of this product today is so very affordable and let's face it a blast to open. Today where two card packs run $12, a box of 1986 Topps for $30 is a very good value. >>
...it's for this reason that I am pleased to offer a ground floor opportunity for discerning buyers. Let me tell you a little bit about 1990 Donruss, the true sleeper of the 20th century... >>
What's your price on 1990 Donruss wax cases? If it's low enough there is money to be made with PSA 10 cards.
Ryan regularly goes for $20 and Griffey does well, as do some HOF players.
In a wax box that costs $7 there is almost always $50 of graded cards. People just don't
have the interest in doing it. Yet.......... >>
I'd slit my wrists before I completed the process of cracking open a $7 box, found the gradeable cards, dealt with storing/trashing the rest, packaged everything up to send to PSA, waited, then listed everthing on eBay, then packaged it up for sale...all for a $43 profit.
My times worth more than minimum wage.
<< <i>I'd slit my wrists before I completed the process of cracking open a $7 box, found the gradeable cards, dealt with storing/trashing the rest, packaged everything up to send to PSA, waited, then listed everthing on eBay, then packaged it up for sale...all for a $43 profit.
My times worth more than minimum wage. >>
You clearly don't enjoy opening older wax packs. Very few people do it solely with profit in mind. By the way, you "waste" more time on here telling everybody how you dislike unopened wax than you would enjoying opening a wax box.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd slit my wrists before I completed the process of cracking open a $7 box, found the gradeable cards, dealt with storing/trashing the rest, packaged everything up to send to PSA, waited, then listed everthing on eBay, then packaged it up for sale...all for a $43 profit.
My times worth more than minimum wage. >>
You clearly don't enjoy opening older wax packs. Very few people do it solely with profit in mind. By the way, you "waste" more time on here telling everybody how you dislike unopened wax than you would enjoying opening a wax box. >>
Actually I've never said I dislike opening unopened wax. Its pretty fun. however the post i was responding to....to do it for profit...seems less like fun and more like a chore. And in fact I'm almost finished assembling a run of 1981 to 1991 cello boxes. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.
Btw, posting from my phone while on the way to work or at work is hardly a waste of time.
My collecting blog: http://ctcard.wordpress.com
^^Not one of your best comments on here. I actually found it to be an ignorant statement above all else. Nothing personal however.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd slit my wrists before I completed the process of cracking open a $7 box, found the gradeable cards, dealt with storing/trashing the rest, packaged everything up to send to PSA, waited, then listed everthing on eBay, then packaged it up for sale...all for a $43 profit.
My times worth more than minimum wage. >>
You clearly don't enjoy opening older wax packs. Very few people do it solely with profit in mind. By the way, you "waste" more time on here telling everybody how you dislike unopened wax than you would enjoying opening a wax box. >>
Actually I've never said I dislike opening unopened wax. Its pretty fun. however the post i was responding to....to do it for profit...seems less like fun and more like a chore. And in fact I'm almost finished assembling a run of 1981 to 1991 cello boxes. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.
>>
I think he's confused. You're the one that keeps saying the prices are over inflated and the only reason things are going up are a few collectors with deep pockets and that the sky is falling. That being said, I haven't seen you specifically bask the investment potential of unopened wax
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>I'd slit my wrists before I completed the process of cracking open a $7 box, found the gradeable cards, dealt with storing/trashing the rest, packaged everything up to send to PSA, waited, then listed everthing on eBay, then packaged it up for sale...all for a $43 profit.
My times worth more than minimum wage. >>
Minimum wage must be high in your state -- it's nowhere near $43 per hour here.
Which is about how much time it takes me to open a box, rip the packs,
then review to get 4-5 PSA 10 cards that should NET at least $15 apiece.
It's not for everybody. But can be done at home while watching TV or just relaxing.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>And if you love ripping packs, it could be fun too! >>
To me, thats the bottom line. I dont rip packs, but, if someone enjoys doing it and can make a buck or 2 doing it, then why not. All that time "wasted" was enjoyed. Just my $.02
Fun activity, keep the HOF players and cull the potential PSA 10 from that. Not really
looking to make money, but building a set of all 1980-92 HOF players in PSA 10
and if I get dupe PSA 10s they help pay for others to be graded later.
Commons go in the recycle bin.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>The previous three posts pretty much sum up my feelings about busting junk wax boxes.
Fun activity, keep the HOF players and cull the potential PSA 10 from that. Not really
looking to make money, but building a set of all 1980-92 HOF players in PSA 10
and if I get dupe PSA 10s they help pay for others to be graded later.
Commons go in the recycle bin. >>
I hold 80-86 is a little higher esteem than 87+ commons. So I actually keep those and build sets from them. 87+ commons, as you say, go in the recycle bin to make the unopened commons that much rarer.
<< <i>
<< <i>The previous three posts pretty much sum up my feelings about busting junk wax boxes.
Fun activity, keep the HOF players and cull the potential PSA 10 from that. Not really
looking to make money, but building a set of all 1980-92 HOF players in PSA 10
and if I get dupe PSA 10s they help pay for others to be graded later.
Commons go in the recycle bin. >>
I hold 80-86 is a little higher esteem than 87+ commons. So I actually keep those and build sets from them. 87+ commons, as you say, go in the recycle bin to make the unopened commons that much rarer.
Somewhere around 1987 or 1988 they really cranked up the printing presses making commons
virtually useless except for set-builders. Since I am not a complete-set collector I've always
dispensed with them for those years.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>This seems to assume all the ones you know will be 10's actually come back as 10's. I donated several 9's (and lower) to Goodwill in recent years that were worthless. I think you need to factor in one or two failures per box. That is submit 5 or 6 and assume 4 come back as 10's and 1 or 2 a worthless 9. >>
This is true. And the number of submissions that already exist for, say, 1987 Topps, is pushing maximum density itself where, one has to question whether it is worthwhile even for a 10.
<< <i>This seems to assume all the ones you know will be 10's actually come back as 10's. I donated several 9's (and lower) to Goodwill in recent years that were worthless. I think you need to factor in one or two failures per box. That is submit 5 or 6 and assume 4 come back as 10's and 1 or 2 a worthless 9. >>
I only submit 10s. Sometimes the graders screw up and give me a 9. It's taken a year
to train the graders but it seems they're finally getting the hang of it.
My last completed sub was 29 for 32 -- so they missed three.
I recently did a 42-card submission so we'll see if the graders are getting better.
DaveB in St.Louis
Don't fret about what is out there. If you have the means then by all means, GRIP IT AND RIP IT.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
But the 29 of 32 really did happen. The next sub could be 15 or 20 PSA 10 out of 42.
Who knows? I'll post the results when they come in so everyone can have a good laugh.
Or not. I use the GoldenEye grading system -- and it's pretty decent.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>80's products continue to rise with the latest being 1986 Fleer baseball. Went from $28 to $36 dollars a wax box. This is starting to look so bad that I now find myself looking at 90's products. Get ready because the 70's are now becoming the 80's. Still not a believer, just look at the group rips. >>
No question about it. Anything unopened 1980s to early 1990s with a future HOF rookie card to shoot for gets eaten up right away. A few days ago Kruk listed 2 sealed 1989 Hoops series 1 20 box cases. I thought about it for a day and when I went to go ahead and purchase them, they had already been sold.
<< <i>80's products continue to rise with the latest being 1986 Fleer baseball. Went from $28 to $36 dollars a wax box. This is starting to look so bad that I now find myself looking at 90's products. Get ready because the 70's are now becoming the 80's. Still not a believer, just look at the group rips. >>
I noticed this as well. I bought a box of 86 Fleer at the last group rip for $28 and was surprised it went up $8! Also I see an 85 Fleer Cello box now at $140! I think I picked one up late last year around $95.
Besides 84 Donruss, I am seeing a trend in general throughout the 80's that Fleer holds a premium over both Topps and Donruss by about $5-$10 more. The 85 box being near double in price. Any reason for this?
<< <i>
<< <i>80's products continue to rise with the latest being 1986 Fleer baseball. Went from $28 to $36 dollars a wax box. This is starting to look so bad that I now find myself looking at 90's products. Get ready because the 70's are now becoming the 80's. Still not a believer, just look at the group rips. >>
No question about it. Anything unopened 1980s to early 1990s with a future HOF rookie card to shoot for gets eaten up right away. A few days ago Kruk listed 2 sealed 1989 Hoops series 1 20 box cases. I thought about it for a day and when I went to go ahead and purchase them, they had already been sold. >>
Right -- game on.
Even the ubiquitous 1989 Topps is geting harder to find in wax case quantity. BBCE no longer
sells 1988-91 tops by the wax case. But they did as late as January. Kruk still has 1989 Topps
cases but they'll be gone soon. Even 1988, with a below-average rookie class, is getting eaten
up quickly and 1987 as well.
Soon it will be post-1991 if you want want earlier Topps wax by the case. You'll still be able to
get boxes of 1987-91 wax easily, but they'll cost more.
DaveB in St.Louis
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>80's products continue to rise with the latest being 1986 Fleer baseball. Went from $28 to $36 dollars a wax box. This is starting to look so bad that I now find myself looking at 90's products. Get ready because the 70's are now becoming the 80's. Still not a believer, just look at the group rips. >>
No question about it. Anything unopened 1980s to early 1990s with a future HOF rookie card to shoot for gets eaten up right away. A few days ago Kruk listed 2 sealed 1989 Hoops series 1 20 box cases. I thought about it for a day and when I went to go ahead and purchase them, they had already been sold. >>
Right -- game on.
Even the ubiquitous 1989 Topps is geting harder to find in wax case quantity. BBCE no longer
sells 1988-91 tops by the wax case. But they did as late as January. Kruk still has 1989 Topps
cases but they'll be gone soon. Even 1988, with a below-average rookie class, is getting eaten
up quickly and 1987 as well.
Soon it will be post-1991 if you want want earlier Topps wax by the case. You'll still be able to
get boxes of 1987-91 wax easily, but they'll cost more. >>
I remember the last time 1988-1992 product was used as an investment. I just have to believe there are just TONS of this stuff sitting around.
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524