Poll: What would the 1933 Saint bring in auction today?

nencoin · February 14, 2013 6:10AM

If placed in auction today, what do you think the legal-to-own 1933 Saint Gaudens would bring?

BAJJERFAN · February 14, 2013 6:16AM

Does anyone know what it grades in comparison to the 10 graded at NGC

nencoin · February 14, 2013 6:20AM

<< Does anyone know what it grades in comparison to the 10 graded at NGC >>

I don't know about the NGC pieces, but the one that sold in auction was figured to be a MS65 by our hosts.

MsMorrisine · February 14, 2013 6:21AM

ask after all the appeals are done.

renomedphys · February 14, 2013 6:23AM

I'd say $10-$15M via carefully orchestrated plot

tradedollarnut · February 14, 2013 6:48AM

IMO, $6-8M

Steve27 · February 14, 2013 7:09AM

All you need are two interested parties, and it could easily shoot past $10M. However, if you've seen it (it's on display at the NY Fed), it's pretty baggy.

Greeniejr · February 14, 2013 7:13AM

I would go with 12-14 million unless someone decided to jump their own bid to $17,025,000 to make it the first coin to break 20 million

LanceNewmanOCC · February 14, 2013 8:16AM

.
i am not to sure that the psychology behind it would hurt or help the cause.

on the one hand, there is now much more public mystique surrounding the 1933 saint(s) adding interest

on the other had, there is now much paranoia about government intervention for the 1 piece, even if the proven to be legal to own, the perception is now very different

imo both these vastly affect the outcome
.

ColonelJessup · February 14, 2013 8:31AM

<< IMO, $6-8M >>

Ssssh.

This would queer our deal to buy the other 10 for $22M.

I'm figuring the cleaned one for $1.25M You do remember we're splitting it, don't you?

No worries, I can do it all myself. And spread the bragging rights around. Actually, if I do the deal I hope the public never finds out.

Until the lawsuit is over, and most likely forever, there ain't no THE 1933 Saint no mo'.

So I voted in the lowest price category.

Unknown · February 14, 2013 8:33AM

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sniocsu · February 14, 2013 8:48AM

IMO the legal to own 1933 is the only coin with the story; owned by a King, smuggled from country to country, seized by the Secret Service in a sting...honesty, who does not want to own it? It will carry close to 10 mil hammer - and depending on the environment more than the recently auctioned "first" 1794 dollar. With these coins, you buy the story -- and there really isn't a better one out there

keyman64 · February 14, 2013 8:49AM

<< ask after all the appeals are done. >>

This!!!!

And you all are assuming that the US Government wasn't the winner at the last auction!!! Do we know for a fact that it is in private hands?

tradedollarnut · February 14, 2013 8:53AM

<< IMO the legal to own 1933 is the only coin with the story; owned by a King, smuggled from country to country, seized by the Secret Service in a sting...honesty, who does not want to own it? It will carry close to 10 mil hammer - and depending on the environment more than the recently auctioned "first" 1794 dollar. With these coins, you buy the story -- and there really isn't a better one out there >>

It's got a story all right - and word on the street is that ain't the whole story.

ColonelJessup · February 14, 2013 9:05AM

I will take the word of someone who's seen both that it's not the Browning coin, but the Farouk pedigree being used as a "beard" for another piece cannot be discounted.

ColonelJessup · February 14, 2013 9:06AM

<< I would go with 12-14 million unless someone decided to jump their own bid to $17,025,000 to make it the first coin to break 20 million

>>

This is very mean-spirited but, in the words of Alice Roosevelt Longworth, daughter of TR, wife to a Speaker of the House, and, later, doyenne of Washington, DC society put it "If you don't have anything nice to say about anybody, why don't you come on over and sit down next to me?".

keyman64 · February 14, 2013 9:08AM

<< 

<< IMO the legal to own 1933 is the only coin with the story; owned by a King, smuggled from country to country, seized by the Secret Service in a sting...honesty, who does not want to own it? It will carry close to 10 mil hammer - and depending on the environment more than the recently auctioned "first" 1794 dollar. With these coins, you buy the story -- and there really isn't a better one out there >>

It's got a story all right - and word on the street is that ain't the whole story.

>>

Do you know for a fact that it is in private hands? I have always assumed the government bought it. Since the proceeds were split with the government, they would have actually only paid 1/2 the auction price realized....it would have been a good deal!!!

tradedollarnut · February 14, 2013 9:17AM

<< 

<< I would go with 12-14 million unless someone decided to jump their own bid to $17,025,000 to make it the first coin to break 20 million

>>

This is very mean-spirited but, in the words of Alice Roosevelt Longworth, daughter of TR, wife to a Speaker of the House, and, later, doyenne of Washington, DC society put it "If you don't have anything nice to say about anybody, why don't you come on over and sit down next to me?". >>

Ya know, I once bought a near $300k coin from Harlen Burke for my collection - doubt I would even consider doing that these days.

northcoin · February 14, 2013 9:18AM

<< IMO, $6-8M >>

Interesting coming from one who participated in the 1794 dollar's purchase at 10 million. Just the fact that there are 10 other 1933's out there must be a factor. Now if the government eventually melts the allegedly stolen coins that they are attempting to steal back would you then agree that the 1933 should become a ten million or more coin? Assuming you believe there are more in the woodwork that may surface in a foreign country that has no jurisdiction how would that factor into the valuation of the one that is legal to own in the US.

tradedollarnut · February 14, 2013 9:21AM

1) There are absolutely more in the woodwork
2) The Government will NEVER melt those coins
3) IMO the Government loses on appeal
4) Just the fact the Smithsonian ends up with an even dozen is enough to negatively impact the value of the so called Farouk Specimen

All that adds up to less than $10M IMO.

keyman64 · February 14, 2013 9:22AM

This discussion is useless if the Governement owns the coin!

tradedollarnut · February 14, 2013 9:24AM

<< This discussion is useless if the Governement owns the coin! >>

Many of the discussions around here are useless in one way or another.

keyman64 · February 14, 2013 9:28AM

<< 

<< This discussion is useless if the Governement owns the coin! >>

Many of the discussions around here are useless in one way or another.

>>

Agreed! Due to your lack of response on the matter, I guess you/Laura don't know who owns it for certain. Sounds to me like the government basically bought it for half price.

Shamika · February 14, 2013 12:24PM

I think it would go for about the same price.

MacCrimmon · February 14, 2013 12:42PM

<< I would go with 12-14 million unless someone decided to jump their own bid to $17,025,000 to make it the first coin to break 20 million

>>

I s'pose if RWB can find a sworn affidavit from Izzy Switt that the Fenton $20 was the first struck it's an easy $20M!!!

dbldie55 · February 14, 2013 12:56PM

<< This discussion is useless if the Governement owns the coin! >>

That is who I believe owns the coin.

PreTurb · February 14, 2013 1:30PM

The post-2002 revalation that there are (at least) 10 more specimens that exist will temper the desire for the 1933 going forward. The fear of a top-pop owner is always that more will show up.

pennyannie · February 14, 2013 1:38PM

<< I would go with 12-14 million unless someone decided to jump their own bid to $17,025,000 to make it the first coin to break 20 million

>>

A little mean but since you used a smiley face it is okay.

TDN jumped in and said the story might not be the whole story to downplay the value of the coin imo, but since he used a smiley face it is okay.

Same can be said about the story of the 1794 silver dollar, no smiley face needed because the story is still playing out, first struck or not first stuck. The 1794 will be talked about here and other places for a while longer than if it had sold for 5.5 million. Had it sold for 5.5 it would not be as exciting but since the "shock and awe" it has lots of people arm chair quarterbacking. The owner of this 1794 is an interesting collector to say the least, had it been bought by simpson or pouge (mispelled) we would not have a lot to talk about on these forums. You can research the buyer of this coin and see his rants/raves/info/cool coins/collections he has bought and sold over the years, not as fun as the other non participating collectors here. Personally i like to read where he did not think the 1794 was worth what it sold for last time only to write a bigger check. The 1794 is NSF ever so its day in the sun is fading

All the above is just as interesting as the 1933 saint.

I say the saint goes for 15 million as bigger money non forum members would like to own it.

tradedollarnut · February 14, 2013 1:50PM

downplay the value of the coin imo

I don't need to downplay the value of the coin - ten more showed up and did the job for me

Personally i like to read where he did not think the 1794 was worth what it sold for last time

That was initially true, but if you read the entire thread you will have to acknowledge that several years ago I recognized the true value of the coin. When I saw the straight line graph, I realized he paid the right price

Seriously - and you guys wonder why no one from the top end really wants to participate here? Sheesh

magikbilly · February 14, 2013 1:56PM

<< downplay the value of the coin imo

I don't need to downplay the value of the coin - ten more showed up and did the job for me

Personally i like to read where he did not think the 1794 was worth what it sold for last time

That was initially true, but if you read the entire thread you will have to acknowledge that several years ago I recognized the true value of the coin. When I saw the straight line graph, I realized he paid the right price

Seriously - and you guys wonder why no one from the top end really wants to participate here? Sheesh >>

Well said, and don't leave!

Eric

Coinosaurus · February 14, 2013 1:59PM

<< Seriously - and you guys wonder why no one from the top end really wants to participate here? Sheesh >>

Just admit it TDN, you are addicted to the Forum. We won't hold it against you

DeliaBug · February 14, 2013 2:04PM

<< 

<< I would go with 12-14 million unless someone decided to jump their own bid to $17,025,000 to make it the first coin to break 20 million

>>

A little mean but since you used a smiley face it is okay.

TDN jumped in and said the story might not be the whole story to downplay the value of the coin imo, but since he used a smiley face it is okay.

Same can be said about the story of the 1794 silver dollar, no smiley face needed because the story is still playing out, first struck or not first stuck. The 1794 will be talked about here and other places for a while longer than if it had sold for 5.5 million. Had it sold for 5.5 it would not be as exciting but since the "shock and awe" it has lots of people arm chair quarterbacking. The owner of this 1794 is an interesting collector to say the least, had it been bought by simpson or pouge (mispelled) we would not have a lot to talk about on these forums. You can research the buyer of this coin and see his rants/raves/info/cool coins/collections he has bought and sold over the years, not as fun as the other non participating collectors here. Personally i like to read where he did not think the 1794 was worth what it sold for last time only to write a bigger check. The 1794 is NSF ever so its day in the sun is fading

All the above is just as interesting as the 1933 saint.

I say the saint goes for 15 million as bigger money non forum members would like to own it. >>

Counting the Langbord's and all the others, there are over 30 of these known. Who could have predicted the 10 would just 'be found' and based on that, can anyone say there are definitely no more tucked away. I don't think it will ever sell for what it already did. Too much drama and 'what if's'.

pennyannie · February 14, 2013 2:35PM

<< downplay the value of the coin imo

I don't need to downplay the value of the coin - ten more showed up and did the job for me

Personally i like to read where he did not think the 1794 was worth what it sold for last time

That was initially true, but if you read the entire thread you will have to acknowledge that several years ago I recognized the true value of the coin. When I saw the straight line graph, I realized he paid the right price

Seriously - and you guys wonder why no one from the top end really wants to participate here? Sheesh >>

10 more have show up but the government has said they would never legalize another as legal tender? At this point it is still a quessing game as to the outcome of the 10.

I doubt Simpson or Pouge would get roughed up on these forums. Most has to do with what is said/implied as to the responces one recieves back.

tradedollarnut · February 14, 2013 2:43PM

And why would they not be? What a silly comment.

You clearly don't understand the psychology of what makes a coin valuable. It matters only a little bit that only one is legal to own - it matters a LOT that it's only one of thirteen vs one of three that's legal to own.

PerryHall · February 14, 2013 3:50PM

Certainly as long as the fate of the 10 1933 Saints are unresolved, the value of the sole specimen in private hands will be in doubt. What happens if those 10 specimens go into the melting pot? What happens if they are auctioned off?

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · February 14, 2013 4:11PM

<< downplay the value of the coin imo

I don't need to downplay the value of the coin - ten more showed up and did the job for me

Personally i like to read where he did not think the 1794 was worth what it sold for last time

That was initially true, but if you read the entire thread you will have to acknowledge that several years ago I recognized the true value of the coin. When I saw the straight line graph, I realized he paid the right price

Seriously - and you guys wonder why no one from the top end really wants to participate here? Sheesh >>

"The worst part of success is trying to find someone who is happy for you." Bette Midler

I say let the haters hate, it will catch up to them at some point. When I was a child I wanted to pull the hair out of jealous people; now I sit back and watch them pull it out themselves!

Keep your armor tight TDN, you made a good move for the entire industry IMHO.

Erik

pennyannie · February 14, 2013 7:07PM

Your own guess earlier in this thread was 6 to 8 million, not exactly chump change, no one thought the 1794 dollar would have sold for 10 million a few weeks back. A lot of big highly reguarded dealers thought it would bring in the 5 to 6 million range. There was a guess the price thread on that coin that not many picked 10 million as the price. Your partner was afraid 10 million was not enough to buy the coin and was prepared to go 15 million in the recent copy of Numismatic news i recieved in the mail (Feb 19th, 2013). The 1933 sold for 7.5 years ago with the claim of never will be another one. Those other 10 have been tied up and the odds so far after 4 or so years of legal bs has not resulted in the Lanbords having much to cheer about except a lot of legal fees.

All it takes is 2 determined bidders to drive any coin up in price or one "shock and awe" bidder wanting to break a barrier at all cost. More than a few posters on these forums have claimed to run the price up on other. If the 1933 were sold tommorow (as in the jest of this thread) someone may try the "statue of liberty". While i do not know coins i was think the 1933 would draw a buyer from outside the United States.

Trying to pick the price can vary wildly

It is highly unlikely the 1933 Saint is going to be sold tommorow, but if it did i still go 15 million with 2 real bidders

You will get to bast in the glory of paying 10,000,000.00 for a coin for at least a year or longer IMO, you will always get the credit for being the first to break 10,000.000.00 **

s4ny · February 14, 2013 8:46PM

I think the other 10 coins will eventually become the property of the family that is suing the US Government.

When that happens, more of them will likely appear. Who knows, there could be 100 in Europe.

The Farouk coin is probably worth more than $5 million because of the story, but not more
than $10 million.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 14, 2013 8:49PM

: Poll: What would the 1933 Saint bring in auction today?
Answer : More federal agents.

BillJones · February 14, 2013 9:24PM

I voted the lowest category. I could see this coin selling for two to three million. If you read Q. David Bowers commentary in his Whitman "Red Book" on double eagles, you will note that government employees were making a nice living switching out coins that came into the government coffers during the gold surrender period. I think that there is a good chance that more 1933 double eagles are in the woodwork that are hanging over the market.

I disagree with TDN on the successful appeal of the Langbord case however. As our government becomes more and more authoritarian the chances of successful appeals in cases like this become even less likely. Let's face it, the judiciary is becoming nothing more than politicians in black robes who do the bidding of those who appoint them. The government will keep these coins, and they will not be melted. Instead we will waste taxpayer money on carting these things to show them to a disinterested public, at least for while. Then the government will get the message, and the coins will sit in a government vault doing no one any good.

And it is my opinion the Government bought the one "legal" 1933 double eagle in the auction. The government was the only bidder who could buy it for half price, so why not? It is my view that the only "legal" 1933 double eagle is now out of the numismatic circulation.

coinlieutenant · February 14, 2013 9:50PM

How did this somehow turn into a bash TDN thread? Good gravy!

When the 1933 sold a few years back, it was fresh news and legally clean. Since then, there has been lots of uncertainty and a general pall cast on the luster of these coins given gov involvement. I imagine it will scare folks away. Does that mean that two rich fish couldn't come along that HAD to have the coin and bid it to the moon? Of course not, and given the amount of money floating around, it easily could.

I personally would value the coin less than what it last sold for given the above negativity surrounding the coin. However, a wide range at auction could be realized given the young numismatic whale population at the time.

RichieURich · February 15, 2013 12:37AM

<< 1) There are absolutely more in the woodwork
2) The Government will NEVER melt those coins
3) IMO the Government loses on appeal
4) Just the fact the Smithsonian ends up with an even dozen is enough to negatively impact the value of the so called Farouk Specimen

All that adds up to less than $10M IMO. >>

I agree with TDN on all 4 of these points. I believe the 1933 is not even the rarest Saint-Gaudens double eagle! So I think less than $5 million for it.

MidLifeCrisis · February 15, 2013 12:40AM

<< 

<< 1) There are absolutely more in the woodwork
2) The Government will NEVER melt those coins
3) IMO the Government loses on appeal
4) Just the fact the Smithsonian ends up with an even dozen is enough to negatively impact the value of the so called Farouk Specimen

All that adds up to less than $10M IMO. >>

I agree with TDN on all 4 of these points. I believe the 1933 is not even the rarest Saint-Gaudens double eagle! So I think less than $5 million for it. >>

Ditto.

ColonelJessup · February 15, 2013 1:35AM

<< 

<< 

<< 1) There are absolutely more in the woodwork
2) The Government will NEVER melt those coins
3) IMO the Government loses on appeal
4) Just the fact the Smithsonian ends up with an even dozen is enough to negatively impact the value of the so called Farouk Specimen

All that adds up to less than $10M IMO. >>

I agree with TDN on all 4 of these points. I believe the 1933 is not even the rarest Saint-Gaudens double eagle! So I think less than $5 million for it. >>

Ditto. >>

Tritto

keyman64 · February 15, 2013 1:49AM

But it "could" be the rarest legal coin to own if the Government bought the one "legal" example and the appeals fail and therefore no others are legal to own.

DeliaBug · February 15, 2013 2:00AM

<< But it "could" be the rarest legal coin to own if the Government bought the one "legal" example and the appeals fail and therefore no others are legal to own. >>

1822 $5.

ricko · February 15, 2013 2:02AM

I agree with TDN.... I believe his points/analysis is correct. It is also all but officially confirmed that there are more 1933's out there. Cheers, RickO

ColonelJessup · February 15, 2013 2:09AM

I am eager to be Illuminated about why the US government tri-lateraled off the Farouk piece to itself?

Did Dick Cheney want a pocket piece or is it just gathering dust on a shelf next to that Indiana Jones discovery?

Raufus · February 15, 2013 2:11AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 1) There are absolutely more in the woodwork
2) The Government will NEVER melt those coins
3) IMO the Government loses on appeal
4) Just the fact the Smithsonian ends up with an even dozen is enough to negatively impact the value of the so called Farouk Specimen

All that adds up to less than $10M IMO. >>

I agree with TDN on all 4 of these points. I believe the 1933 is not even the rarest Saint-Gaudens double eagle! So I think less than $5 million for it. >>

Ditto. >>

Tritto

>>

Quadraditto. Well stated TDN.

BAJJERFAN · February 15, 2013 2:19AM

<< I am eager to be Illuminated about why the US government tri-lateraled off the Farouk piece to itself?

Did Dick Cheney want a pocket piece or is it just gathering dust on a shelf next to that Indiana Jones discovery? >>

Probably because they don't want any private individual to legally own one.

PerryHall · February 15, 2013 2:25AM

<< I agree with TDN.... I believe his points/analysis is correct. It is also all but officially confirmed that there are more 1933's out there. Cheers, RickO >>

Are they being stored with the 1964 Peace dollars?

Poll: What would the 1933 Saint bring in auction today?

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