<< <i>But it "could" be the rarest legal coin to own if the Government bought the one "legal" example and the appeals fail and therefore no others are legal to own. >>
1822 $5. >>
There are 3 known. I am not aware of where they are BUT if just one is available to the public under my scenario above, the 1933 $20 would be much more rare because NONE would exist that are available to the public.
Zero will always be more rare than 1, 2 or 3.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
<< <i>But it "could" be the rarest legal coin to own if the Government bought the one "legal" example and the appeals fail and therefore no others are legal to own. >>
1822 $5. >>
There are 3 known. I am not aware of where they are BUT if just one is available to the public under my scenario above, the 1933 $20 would be much more rare because NONE would exist that are available to the public.
Zero will always be more rare than 1, 2 or 3. >>
One 1822 $5 is in private hands while the other two are in the Smithsonian Institute. The gold $3 is unique.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I would go with 12-14 million unless someone decided to jump their own bid to $17,025,000 to make it the first coin to break 20 million >>
This is very mean-spirited but, in the words of Alice Roosevelt Longworth, daughter of TR, wife to a Speaker of the House, and, later, doyenne of Washington, DC society put it "If you don't have anything nice to say about anybody, why don't you come on over and sit down next to me?". >>
Ya know, I once bought a near $300k coin from Harlen Burke for my collection - doubt I would even consider doing that these days. >>
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
<< <i>Are they being stored with the 1964 Peace dollars? >>
No, but close by...... Cheers, RickO >>
I'm glad you appreciate my humor. Unfortunatey, there are a few here that are quite humorless.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I don't know what difference it makes but I remember the 1933 Saint came with a certificate from the US Government guaranteeing that this would be the only legal specimen in private hands. Anyone else remember this? How does this effect this coin's future retention of value?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I will state emphatically that the government does not own the 1933 twenty dollar Saint. When it was sold the government stated emphatically that it would be the only
1933 twenty dollar Saint to be legal to own.
Bob Simpson owns one of the finest sets of Saints. A client of Heritage owns without question the finest set of Saints as well as the Judd 1776 pattern.
If these two guys decide to play in a contest for the only legitimate 1933 twenty dollar Saint, $ 10,000,000 would be passed in a heartbeat !
My take is $ 10,000,000 to $ 15,000,000 in a New York Second
<< <i>I don't know what difference it makes but I remember the 1933 Saint came with a certificate from the US Government guaranteeing that this would be the only legal specimen in private hands. Anyone else remember this? How does this effect this coin's future retention of value? >>
Actually, they stated it would be the only coin 'monetized'. Since there is really nothing that 'monetization' does, if the Supreme Court rules that the Langbords' Constitutional rights were impinged upon and gives them the coins back, what collector is really going to care???
<< <i>I don't know what difference it makes but I remember the 1933 Saint came with a certificate from the US Government guaranteeing that this would be the only legal specimen in private hands. Anyone else remember this? How does this effect this coin's future retention of value? >>
Actually, they stated it would be the only coin 'monetized'. Since there is really nothing that 'monetization' does, if the Supreme Court rules that the Langbords' Constitutional rights were impinged upon and gives them the coins back, what collector is really going to care??? >>
Although there is enough precedence of the government breaking contracts, couldn't the owner of the Farouk specimen sue the government for breach of contract? I'm sure there would be plenty of lawyers that would take the case on a contingency basis.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I don't know what difference it makes but I remember the 1933 Saint came with a certificate from the US Government guaranteeing that this would be the only legal specimen in private hands. Anyone else remember this? How does this effect this coin's future retention of value? >>
Actually, they stated it would be the only coin 'monetized'. Since there is really nothing that 'monetization' does, if the Supreme Court rules that the Langbords' Constitutional rights were impinged upon and gives them the coins back, what collector is really going to care??? >>
Although there is enough precedence of the government breaking contracts, couldn't the owner of the Farouk specimen sue the government for breach of contract? I'm sure there would be plenty of lawyers that would take the case on a contingency basis. >>
On what basis? If SCOTUS awards the coins to the Langbords, all that Treasury has to say is "we upheld our part of the bargain - they have NOT been monetized - just like we promised".
<< <i>I don't know what difference it makes but I remember the 1933 Saint came with a certificate from the US Government guaranteeing that this would be the only legal specimen in private hands. Anyone else remember this? How does this effect this coin's future retention of value? >>
Actually, they stated it would be the only coin 'monetized'. Since there is really nothing that 'monetization' does, if the Supreme Court rules that the Langbords' Constitutional rights were impinged upon and gives them the coins back, what collector is really going to care??? >>
Although there is enough precedence of the government breaking contracts, couldn't the owner of the Farouk specimen sue the government for breach of contract? I'm sure there would be plenty of lawyers that would take the case on a contingency basis. >>
On what basis? If SCOTUS awards the coins to the Langbords, all that Treasury has to say is "we upheld our part of the bargain - they have NOT been monetized - just like we promised". >>
Can the SCOTUS force the Treasury to monetize these coins? I can't see the Executive Branch complying with a SCOTUS decision that they disagreed with. This is all very hypothical in any event.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I would go with 12-14 million unless someone decided to jump their own bid to $17,025,000 to make it the first coin to break 20 million >>
I don't have anything against TDN, but that's exactly why I take everything he says about this matter with a large block of salt. He's very knowledgeable, but in my opinion, Legend bought that coin at $10 mil+ for the prestige and recognition of purchasing the most expensive coin in history. It's not even a downright bad thing- to be honest I think they were clever for doing it. For someone else to buy a coin more expensive than the 1794 SP66 $1, Legend Numismatics will lose that title. Thus, I expect TDN to naturally take a position of "oh, that coin doesn't matter much..." That's not really bashing him.. I'd do the same if I pumped unnecessary millions into a coin to ensure decent recognition. We are dealing with a Supreme Court that's very much pro-government. Very, very much pro-government. If they rule in favor of that family, I'll be shocked- and I'll even predict that each of the 1933 Saints will only bring in $3-4 million at best. But I can totally see that King Farouk piece being the only one available for private possession.
<< <i>Tradedollarnut - Actually the only legitimate, monetized 1933 Twenty could be for sale ! Who told you it was NFS ? >>
Read again - J1776 is NFS.
<< <i>Thus, I expect TDN to naturally take a position of "oh, that coin doesn't matter much..." That's not really bashing him.. I'd do the same if I pumped unnecessary millions into a coin to ensure decent recognition. >>
That's silly - why would I quickly assert that the J-1776 is worth $15M or more but have a bias against the 1933? The 1794 dollar is not the most valuable US coin - I make no claims that it is [IMO, that would change if it were PROVEN to be the first dollar struck, but that's just an educated guess for now]. There are at least a few that would bring more if they were for sale ... but the 1933 isn't likely to be one of them. I am on record for literally YEARS on this chatroom saying that I thought the coin's value had been hugely impacted by the Langbord coins.
<< <i>We are dealing with a Supreme Court that's very much pro-government. Very, very much pro-government. If they rule in favor of that family, I'll be shocked- and I'll even predict that each of the 1933 Saints will only bring in $3-4 million at best. But I can totally see that King Farouk piece being the only one available for private possession. >>
We are dealing with a Supreme Court that is 5-4 Conservatives and that doesn't mean pro-government, that means pro constitution. The government seizing a private citizen's property without absolute proof of theft tramples those rights, IMO.
If the Republicans would not block the appointments of so many Appeals Courts and other federal judiciary, the case would be resolved much more quickly.
I understand that Justice Kennedy, as, so often, the swing vote, may own a (legal) Upside-Down Jenny. It's not, however, the only, or the best. I don't know trhe person who sold it to him.
Mr J-1776, the man for whom Triple bought so many exquisite Saints, cares bupkis about we might think about anything, which I'd imagine is all, that he's extremely pleased to own.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>But it "could" be the rarest legal coin to own if the Government bought the one "legal" example and the appeals fail and therefore no others are legal to own. >>
1822 $5. >>
There are 3 known. I am not aware of where they are BUT if just one is available to the public under my scenario above, the 1933 $20 would be much more rare because NONE would exist that are available to the public.
Zero will always be more rare than 1, 2 or 3.
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody and be perfect !
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>But it "could" be the rarest legal coin to own if the Government bought the one "legal" example and the appeals fail and therefore no others are legal to own. >>
1822 $5. >>
There are 3 known. I am not aware of where they are BUT if just one is available to the public under my scenario above, the 1933 $20 would be much more rare because NONE would exist that are available to the public.
Zero will always be more rare than 1, 2 or 3. >>
One 1822 $5 is in private hands while the other two are in the Smithsonian Institute. The gold $3 is unique.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I would go with 12-14 million unless someone decided to jump their own bid to $17,025,000 to make it the first coin to break 20 million
This is very mean-spirited but, in the words of Alice Roosevelt Longworth, daughter of TR, wife to a Speaker of the House, and, later, doyenne of Washington, DC society put it "If you don't have anything nice to say about anybody, why don't you come on over and sit down next to me?". >>
Ya know, I once bought a near $300k coin from Harlen Burke for my collection - doubt I would even consider doing that these days. >>
LOL! Boo-hoo, ad infinitum.
The Government didn't "Tri-Lateral Comission" it.
They Soprano'd it!
<< <i>re they being stored with the 1964 Peace dollars? >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Are they being stored with the 1964 Peace dollars? >>
I'm glad you appreciate my humor. Unfortunatey, there are a few here that are quite humorless.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I will state emphatically that the government does not own the 1933 twenty dollar Saint. When it was sold the government stated emphatically that it would be the only
1933 twenty dollar Saint to be legal to own.
Bob Simpson owns one of the finest sets of Saints. A client of Heritage owns without question the finest set of Saints as well as the Judd 1776 pattern.
If these two guys decide to play in a contest for the only legitimate 1933 twenty dollar Saint, $ 10,000,000 would be passed in a heartbeat !
My take is $ 10,000,000 to $ 15,000,000 in a New York Second
Stewart
<< <i>I don't know what difference it makes but I remember the 1933 Saint came with a certificate from the US Government guaranteeing that this would be the only legal specimen in private hands. Anyone else remember this? How does this effect this coin's future retention of value? >>
Actually, they stated it would be the only coin 'monetized'. Since there is really nothing that 'monetization' does, if the Supreme Court rules that the Langbords' Constitutional rights were impinged upon and gives them the coins back, what collector is really going to care???
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't know what difference it makes but I remember the 1933 Saint came with a certificate from the US Government guaranteeing that this would be the only legal specimen in private hands. Anyone else remember this? How does this effect this coin's future retention of value? >>
Actually, they stated it would be the only coin 'monetized'. Since there is really nothing that 'monetization' does, if the Supreme Court rules that the Langbords' Constitutional rights were impinged upon and gives them the coins back, what collector is really going to care??? >>
Although there is enough precedence of the government breaking contracts, couldn't the owner of the Farouk specimen sue the government for breach of contract? I'm sure there would be plenty of lawyers that would take the case on a contingency basis.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't know what difference it makes but I remember the 1933 Saint came with a certificate from the US Government guaranteeing that this would be the only legal specimen in private hands. Anyone else remember this? How does this effect this coin's future retention of value? >>
Actually, they stated it would be the only coin 'monetized'. Since there is really nothing that 'monetization' does, if the Supreme Court rules that the Langbords' Constitutional rights were impinged upon and gives them the coins back, what collector is really going to care??? >>
Although there is enough precedence of the government breaking contracts, couldn't the owner of the Farouk specimen sue the government for breach of contract? I'm sure there would be plenty of lawyers that would take the case on a contingency basis. >>
On what basis? If SCOTUS awards the coins to the Langbords, all that Treasury has to say is "we upheld our part of the bargain - they have NOT been monetized - just like we promised".
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't know what difference it makes but I remember the 1933 Saint came with a certificate from the US Government guaranteeing that this would be the only legal specimen in private hands. Anyone else remember this? How does this effect this coin's future retention of value? >>
Actually, they stated it would be the only coin 'monetized'. Since there is really nothing that 'monetization' does, if the Supreme Court rules that the Langbords' Constitutional rights were impinged upon and gives them the coins back, what collector is really going to care??? >>
Although there is enough precedence of the government breaking contracts, couldn't the owner of the Farouk specimen sue the government for breach of contract? I'm sure there would be plenty of lawyers that would take the case on a contingency basis. >>
On what basis? If SCOTUS awards the coins to the Langbords, all that Treasury has to say is "we upheld our part of the bargain - they have NOT been monetized - just like we promised". >>
Can the SCOTUS force the Treasury to monetize these coins? I can't see the Executive Branch complying with a SCOTUS decision that they disagreed with. This is all very hypothical in any event.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I would go with 12-14 million unless someone decided to jump their own bid to $17,025,000 to make it the first coin to break 20 million
I don't have anything against TDN, but that's exactly why I take everything he says about this matter with a large block of salt. He's very knowledgeable, but in my opinion, Legend bought that coin at $10 mil+ for the prestige and recognition of purchasing the most expensive coin in history. It's not even a downright bad thing- to be honest I think they were clever for doing it. For someone else to buy a coin more expensive than the 1794 SP66 $1, Legend Numismatics will lose that title.
Thus, I expect TDN to naturally take a position of "oh, that coin doesn't matter much..." That's not really bashing him.. I'd do the same if I pumped unnecessary millions into a coin to ensure decent recognition.
We are dealing with a Supreme Court that's very much pro-government. Very, very much pro-government. If they rule in favor of that family, I'll be shocked- and I'll even predict that each of the 1933 Saints will only bring in $3-4 million at best. But I can totally see that King Farouk piece being the only one available for private possession.
Dolan
Tradedollarnut - Actually the only legitimate, monetized 1933 Twenty could be for sale ! Who told you it was NFS ?
Stewart
<< <i>Tradedollarnut - Actually the only legitimate, monetized 1933 Twenty could be for sale ! Who told you it was NFS ? >>
Read again - J1776 is NFS.
<< <i>Thus, I expect TDN to naturally take a position of "oh, that coin doesn't matter much..." That's not really bashing him.. I'd do the same if I pumped unnecessary millions into a coin to ensure decent recognition. >>
That's silly - why would I quickly assert that the J-1776 is worth $15M or more but have a bias against the 1933? The 1794 dollar is not the most valuable US coin - I make no claims that it is [IMO, that would change if it were PROVEN to be the first dollar struck, but that's just an educated guess for now]. There are at least a few that would bring more if they were for sale ... but the 1933 isn't likely to be one of them. I am on record for literally YEARS on this chatroom saying that I thought the coin's value had been hugely impacted by the Langbord coins.
<< <i>We are dealing with a Supreme Court that's very much pro-government. Very, very much pro-government. If they rule in favor of that family, I'll be shocked- and I'll even predict that each of the 1933 Saints will only bring in $3-4 million at best. But I can totally see that King Farouk piece being the only one available for private possession. >>
We are dealing with a Supreme Court that is 5-4 Conservatives and that doesn't mean pro-government, that means pro constitution. The government seizing a private citizen's property without absolute proof of theft tramples those rights, IMO.
I understand that Justice Kennedy, as, so often, the swing vote, may own a (legal) Upside-Down Jenny. It's not, however, the only, or the best. I don't know trhe person who sold it to him.
Mr J-1776, the man for whom Triple bought so many exquisite Saints, cares bupkis about we might think about anything, which I'd imagine is all, that he's extremely pleased to own.
<< <i>IMO, $6-8M >>
I agree.
Rare coin buy not the mystique of the
SP 66 PCGS 1794 $.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.