<< <i>I checked Fristch's website and don't see anything other than modern listed. Am I missing something? >>
Most of their available unopened product is listed for sale in their catalogue which they mail out every couple of months. They have been in business for a long time and are an old school operation.
Edit to add: It is also a well-established fact that Larry Fritsch purchased literally tons of unopened cases from Topps at the end of each year. No one knows for sure what they have left, but at the rate they've been willing to sell packs over the years, one could certainly surmise that it is quite a bit.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
A few years ago, just before Fritsch died, SCD had a story about him and his company. If I remember correctly, the writer was an editor from SCD, and was given a tour of the warehouse. I didn't keep the issue, so can't confirm what was written or said. Perhaps someone here remembers this issue?
<< <i>Has anyone ever bought rack, wax, cello or vending boxes from the '70s from Fristch? >>
I bought a 75 bb cello box a few years back. His sale prices were a bit lower back then, of course, lol..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>A few years ago, just before Fritsch died, SCD had a story about him and his company. If I remember correctly, the writer was an editor from SCD, and was given a tour of the warehouse. I didn't keep the issue, so can't confirm what was written or said. Perhaps someone here remembers this issue? >>
I do vaguely remember that article, but not the details...IIRC, there was one photo of Larry standing before shelves stocked floor to ceiling with late 60s and 70s vending boxes..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Has anyone ever bought rack, wax, cello or vending boxes from the '70s from Fristch? >>
I bought a 75 bb cello box a few years back. His sale prices were a bit lower back then, of course, lol.. >>
Found the online catalog. That price is $3000 now. >>
Make that a lot lower, then, LOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I think one of the Beckett annual price guides had a write up on him (Fristch). This would have been in the early to mid 80s. I do not remember the details, so possibly this article could provide some info.
His prices are high but it is always a great opportunity to get to opening factory sealed packs from your youth if you were born in the 60s-70s. I dont know how I would handle it all if I owned his company. He had the foresight and the connections to buy the cases that we love now. That is why I like unopened because it is a memory of my youth.
<< <i>The other benefit of ordering a pack from Fritsch is that you are guaranteed to get an authentic pack straight from the factory as they are the original owners of the vintage unopened packs they sell. No other dealer can make that claim, and as the value of vintage unopened continues to rise we will see more and more questionable or resealed packs enter the marketplace. >>
I am basically in agreement with you on this Tim. My only question about the Fritsch inventory is that given the number of slabbed star cello packs they have offered for sale, were these packs that they discovered as they were working through each box? The alternative would be to search all their boxes looking for for packs with stars on top and replacing them with other packs when they were found.
Said differently, the question is are these boxes as they were when they left the factory or are they searched with legitimate packs replacing any star packs that were found? In both cases one could be confident that the packs are original and untampered with, but a clarification about whether the boxes are original or modified would be useful information to have.
And as relates to the newly posted forum rules, this is NOT intended to suggest any nefarious or underhanded business practices by ANYONE! It is intended as a legitimate question to understand what the inventory in question really is/isn't. >>
all that i can offer up on this was back when bonds was chasing the hr record my cousin wanted to buy the traded/update sets with the bonds cards. so he bought from Fritsch. he got the sets, but they were opened and bonds cards were placed in holders. unfortunately, the bonds cards would probably not grade any better than a 7. so they have in the past opened "factory" sets. i know for a fact that topps and fleer traded/update sets were factory sealed. the fleer more clearly but all topps traded sets have been sealed with scotch tape. i know from having worked at a card store and taken factory sets right from factory sealed cases.
so in one aspect i wouldnt be surprised if they havent gone through some of their unsealed cases. it could also be that in their larger bulk purchases from topps they had received cases of unboxed-unopened packs. i.e. what they use to repackage as X-out boxes. maybe after a certain point they didnt rebox them. i think about an option like this as just like the old topps cut cases they use to sell.
i wouldnt doubt that any box you buy from them is true unsearched pack. if i was really looking for true unsearched cello or rack i would probably rather buy a full unopened case from them instead.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Boxes that come straight from a case also are selling for more these days if you can find them. Also, did anyone notice that 1981 Topps Baseball wax boxes have been rising recently? Steve has a few left but D&A and others do not even have any right now. Steve has 1 box left of 1980 topps football and that one is moving foreward. Check completed auctions on the bay and one will see that Steves prices are pretty reasonable. I believe that 70s- mid 80s sealed rack cases fot the most part will be golden especially with stars showing. Finally Larry Fritsch does not have any 1979 rack boxes in football or baseball or 1980-81 basketball wax boxes or 72 third series FB wax. I guess we will have to see what prices go up in has next catalog. I can not believe he is really out but just taking a breather from advertising them and helping to control the market.
<< <i>Do they not list everything in the catalog as online? I don't see anything in the way of vintage stuff on their site. Some stuff, but not a lot. >>
It's in the catalogue...hard copy or pdf file on line.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
yeah but dont count on the prices you see in Fritsch catalogue. Everytime(or the last 2 times ive called) I have called him about his unopened product. He says hold on let me check the warehouse to see if we have any left. He then comes back on the phone and says yeah we have one but its x1500.00 amount. I say the cataloge I just got this week said it was 1100x . Oh unopened prices change daily he says. Really? Nevermind then.
Do people really care all that much about post 1980's material ever drying up? Is there anything really left to grade in 84 Donruss that can be said is still a low pop? I can fathom why anyone would want some of this stuff at those prices? Really $240 for a wax box of 84 Donruss?
I understand the rarity of older wax but people did horde 80s material and the cards in most of these sets are virtually worthless outside of 1 to 2 cards a set. Are people really buying 86 Topps to keep LOL or are they just busting it looking for a PSA 10's which are virtually impossible just like 1981 Topps.
I think the reason you see some later years being sold out is that people like cheap rips more than anything.
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
the reason people still enjoy ripping 80's is because they DON'T care about Pop Reports, Low Pop 9's & 10's, rare chase cards, stars, rookies & errors.
they like all of it. raw. because that's what MOST collectors collect.
I also recently ordered a catalog from Fritsch just to see their prices and I was not impressed. I was impressed with their inventory, however I cant believe someone would pay for that kind of stuff - especially without pictures. Hand collected sets of 1987 Topps running for about $27 (not including shipping)!
I also like to rip (some 80's) just for fun. I'll take 1986 Topps any day over 1987.
Why do I get the feeling Fritsch is only selling vintage boxes and nothing else? I'm thinking once his inventory of vintage is gone he is in serious trouble, as his pricing on junk is crazy. I can't believe anyone is paying these prices.
They've been in business longer than anyone else in the hobby and apparently in no hurry to sell off so they must be doing something right.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
For what its worth, I just stopped by my local card shop and they have nothing older than 2011. Sadly.
Of course they do have 1988, 1991, and I think 1990 Score and 1988 Donruss. All for $15 a box. That might be ok as there is no shipping. I need to find another store.
Theoretically condition should be good, prices are high, but getting real info on card condition will be tough. >>
I haven't but heard from people who have. People who bought years ago had missing cards but some gems mixed in. Recently the few examples I got weren't positive. The cards were heavily miscut or O/C. I was going to take a chance on a '73 set until I got feedback about what others had been receiving. I had been under the impression that the sets were hand built in the given year and then put away. That would be worth their prices. However, that's not the case. They build the sets to order. So they have boxes in the warehouse that they pull from to build sets. My guess is most of the better cards were pulled years ago leaving mostly the O/C and other factory defects remaining. That's why they used to list their sets as 'NM or better' but now list them as 'EX-MT or better'.
I would pay their ask price or more for sets that are truly random in terms of factory quality. However, for sets that have consistent factory issues throughout, they aren't worth half the ask price.
<< <i>Do people really care all that much about post 1980's material ever drying up? Is there anything really left to grade in 84 Donruss that can be said is still a low pop? I can fathom why anyone would want some of this stuff at those prices? Really $240 for a wax box of 84 Donruss?
I understand the rarity of older wax but people did horde 80s material and the cards in most of these sets are virtually worthless outside of 1 to 2 cards a set. Are people really buying 86 Topps to keep LOL or are they just busting it looking for a PSA 10's which are virtually impossible just like 1981 Topps. >>
Yes, there are millions of raw and graded rookies of Sandberg, Gwynn, McGwire etc. out there that only sell for $3 to $5 each, but yet people will still pay $70 to $90 a box for the thrill of trying to pull yet another themselves. That is the beauty of unopened wax. Its value has and will continue to rise over time. Same will happen with certain late 1980s and early 1990s wax as players from those years begin entering the hall of fame and the supply of wax begins to somewhat diminish. It already has to some extent.
<< <i>Do people really care all that much about post 1980's material ever drying up? Is there anything really left to grade in 84 Donruss that can be said is still a low pop? I can fathom why anyone would want some of this stuff at those prices? Really $240 for a wax box of 84 Donruss?
I understand the rarity of older wax but people did horde 80s material and the cards in most of these sets are virtually worthless outside of 1 to 2 cards a set. Are people really buying 86 Topps to keep LOL or are they just busting it looking for a PSA 10's which are virtually impossible just like 1981 Topps. >>
Yes, there are millions of raw and graded rookies of Sandberg, Gwynn, McGwire etc. out there that only sell for $3 to $5 each, but yet people will still pay $70 to $90 a box for the thrill of trying to pull yet another themselves. That is the beauty of unopened wax. Its value has and will continue to rise over time. Same will happen with certain late 1980s and early 1990s wax as players from those years begin entering the hall of fame and the supply of wax begins to somewhat diminish. It already has to some extent. >>
Agreed. To me its much more satisfying to pull a card yourself than to buy it. And equally, if not more exciting to pull the card, submit it and hopefully get a high grade (obviously a 10). But its part of the fun and profit at the same time. Lots of people here try to divide the hobby from the dealer and there are extremes on both sides, but no matter if you are a hobbyist or otherwise and you pulled an 85 Topps Roger Clemens and it was graded a 10, its a great moment because of the card itself and the potential monetary value.
<< <i>I wonder how high the 72 Topps High series football pop report would get if Frisch sold all of his inventory (and it was opened).
I wonder if the BBCE or Dave and Adams or another dealer will eventually buy them out. That would be quite a deal. >>
I dont think Steve or D&A have the money to purchase a company like that. Even if they did , Do you put it on the site and flood the market resulting in lower prices or do you sell it in auctions? Maybe 1972 third series football is saturated already and thats why they are "temp out". Does that mean they have to go to another part of the whse and dust off a few hundred cases? Maybe in the near future boxes show up again at even higher prices.
<< <i>It is most definitely true that 1970s unopened material is no longer as plentiful. While there are still a few caches out there to become available, we've reached the point at which if you want the material you are going to pay quite a bit more for it.
Look at 1973 Series 4 wax boxes as an example. 15 months ago one sold on Ebay for about $1800 to a member of this forum. In the November CollectAuctions sale one went for over $3500 with the buyers premium!! In late 2011 a series 5 1973 wax box could be had for about $4300 and in the same November 2012 auction one went for over $6000!
Fritsch is very slowly letting their unopened out. You can't get them to sell in quantity. You can't even get them to discount at this point (last year there were still ways to get 10%-15% discounts, but those days are gone). And who could argue with their approach? It's working for them very well (other than the 1971 Topps vending which is just so outrageously priced that it is going to continue sitting in the Fritsch warehouse for the foreseeable future).
And as soon as anything from the 1970-1976 era shows up on BBCE's site, it's gobbled up within hours. Look at the 1975 Topps Mini and the 1972 Topps Ser 5/6 wax boxes that went up as the last break was getting off the ground. $1800 and $6600 respectively, and those may end up being real bargains. >>
I was the one that bought that box for 1800 (from Probstein - and he said it was a great price when I got it) - I immediately put it up for a Group Rip - my wife would have killed me if I didn't! - I kept about 3 packs from that box, but jeez - should I have just hung onto it? I've been burned in the past on more expensive purchases and trying to flip them - to be honest, if I had to do it all over again - I'd do the same thing.
I've also bought quite a few '75 cellos from Fritsch in the past. They used to have good deals on % off, and then a coupon for another 10 bucks off. I pulled a few Bretts from those 75 cellos - most off center - but extremely fun rips regardless.
Ditto on the 75 cellos...not long ago they offered up to 3 at (IIRC) $85 a pack. Now, it's like $110.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Ditto on the 75 cellos...not long ago they offered up to 3 at (IIRC) $85 a pack. Now, it's like $110. >>
It looks like they raised everything $25/pack across the board. Boxes are up $600. It must be nice to control the market. Although I don't like the prices, I can't blame them at all for trying to maximize their return.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'WOW What a Ride!' Mark Frost
<< <i>Boxes that come straight from a case also are selling for more these days if you can find them. Also, did anyone notice that 1981 Topps Baseball wax boxes have been rising recently? Steve has a few left but D&A and others do not even have any right now. Steve has 1 box left of 1980 topps football and that one is moving foreward. Check completed auctions on the bay and one will see that Steves prices are pretty reasonable. I believe that 70s- mid 80s sealed rack cases fot the most part will be golden especially with stars showing. Finally Larry Fritsch does not have any 1979 rack boxes in football or baseball or 1980-81 basketball wax boxes or 72 third series FB wax. I guess we will have to see what prices go up in has next catalog. I can not believe he is really out but just taking a breather from advertising them and helping to control the market. >>
Gee that's nice to hear.
Over 20 yrs ago I bought a rack case of 81T - don't know why - other than it was cheap - hard to believe but the 87D boxes that were hot as all get out back then were going for more than these racks!
Over 20 yrs ago I bought a rack case of 81T - don't know why - other than it was cheap - hard to believe but the 87D boxes that were hot as all get out back then were going for more than these racks!
>>
This is your lucky day, I happen to have a box or 2 of 1987 Donruss and I like you, so Im willing to trade strait across!!
Over 20 yrs ago I bought a rack case of 81T - don't know why - other than it was cheap - hard to believe but the 87D boxes that were hot as all get out back then were going for more than these racks!
>>
This is your lucky day, I happen to have a box or 2 of 1987 Donruss and I like you, so Im willing to trade strait across!! >>
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I know - not very impressive - I paid 100 bucks many moons ago - now it's kindling.
I do have the run from '79 to '87. Mike wanted me to organize it - but I can barely reach it all - quite a few cases are still in blue plastic cases in another closet and my wife wants it moved!
Mike, you've amassed quite an impressive unopened collection over the years!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Mike, you've amassed quite an impressive unopened collection over the years! >>
Thanx Tim. >>
But, but, but... According to some, those cases don't exist, so it must be a mirage.
Sweet hoard, Mike.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>I think that's the point , it's moved from open market into private collections. >>
Think most reasonable collectors believe that's the case. Others, not so much.
It reminds me of the [insert applicable circumstance(s) here] bubble. People with ulterior motives scream from the rooftops "buy now before it's too late" and then drop the hammer when prices hit a perceived apex, with Joe Schmoe holding the bag.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
1982 Topps wax boxes - all gone. 1984 Topps wax boxes - all gone. 1986 Donruss wax boxes - all gone.
Not saying that this stuff will be hard to replace but it seems its obvious the 70's stuff is drying up to the point that people are now going after the 80's, and why wouldn't they. The 80's has a ton of great players. The stuff is cheap compared to what the previous decade sells for and now, adults who have kids are ripping packs with there children and probably introducing them to guys like Clemens and Mattingly.
Nice to see this stuff in more demand as of recent. Heck, it only took 25-30 years. Imagine if it was 1989 and there was still unopened wax boxes from 1959-1965. Same amount of years have passed from the mid 80's up to today.
Comments
<< <i>I checked Fristch's website and don't see anything other than modern listed. Am I missing something? >>
Most of their available unopened product is listed for sale in their catalogue which they mail out every couple of months.
They have been in business for a long time and are an old school operation.
Edit to add: It is also a well-established fact that Larry Fritsch purchased literally tons of unopened cases from Topps
at the end of each year. No one knows for sure what they have left, but at the rate they've been willing to sell packs
over the years, one could certainly surmise that it is quite a bit.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
aconte
<< <i>Has anyone ever bought rack, wax, cello or vending boxes from the '70s from Fristch? >>
I bought a 75 bb cello box a few years back. His sale prices were a bit lower back then, of course, lol..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>A few years ago, just before Fritsch died, SCD had a story about him and his company. If I remember correctly, the writer was an editor from SCD, and was given a tour of the warehouse. I didn't keep the issue, so can't confirm what was written or said. Perhaps someone here remembers this issue? >>
I do vaguely remember that article, but not the details...IIRC, there was one photo of Larry standing before shelves stocked floor to ceiling with late 60s and 70s vending boxes..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Fritsch Article
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone ever bought rack, wax, cello or vending boxes from the '70s from Fristch? >>
I bought a 75 bb cello box a few years back. His sale prices were a bit lower back then, of course, lol.. >>
Found the online catalog. That price is $3000 now.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone ever bought rack, wax, cello or vending boxes from the '70s from Fristch? >>
I bought a 75 bb cello box a few years back. His sale prices were a bit lower back then, of course, lol.. >>
Found the online catalog. That price is $3000 now. >>
Make that a lot lower, then, LOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Dave
Jason
<< <i>
<< <i>The other benefit of ordering a pack from Fritsch is that you are guaranteed to get an authentic pack straight from the factory as they
are the original owners of the vintage unopened packs they sell. No other dealer can make that claim, and as the value of vintage unopened
continues to rise we will see more and more questionable or resealed packs enter the marketplace. >>
I am basically in agreement with you on this Tim. My only question about the Fritsch inventory is that given the number of slabbed star cello
packs they have offered for sale, were these packs that they discovered as they were working through each box? The alternative would be
to search all their boxes looking for for packs with stars on top and replacing them with other packs when they were found.
Said differently, the question is are these boxes as they were when they left the factory or are they searched with legitimate packs replacing
any star packs that were found? In both cases one could be confident that the packs are original and untampered with, but a clarification about
whether the boxes are original or modified would be useful information to have.
And as relates to the newly posted forum rules, this is NOT intended to suggest any nefarious or underhanded business practices by ANYONE!
It is intended as a legitimate question to understand what the inventory in question really is/isn't. >>
all that i can offer up on this was back when bonds was chasing the hr record my cousin wanted to buy the traded/update sets with the bonds cards. so he bought from Fritsch. he got the sets, but they were opened and bonds cards were placed in holders. unfortunately, the bonds cards would probably not grade any better than a 7. so they have in the past opened "factory" sets. i know for a fact that topps and fleer traded/update sets were factory sealed. the fleer more clearly but all topps traded sets have been sealed with scotch tape. i know from having worked at a card store and taken factory sets right from factory sealed cases.
so in one aspect i wouldnt be surprised if they havent gone through some of their unsealed cases. it could also be that in their larger bulk purchases from topps they had received cases of unboxed-unopened packs. i.e. what they use to repackage as X-out boxes. maybe after a certain point they didnt rebox them. i think about an option like this as just like the old topps cut cases they use to sell.
i wouldnt doubt that any box you buy from them is true unsearched pack. if i was really looking for true unsearched cello or rack i would probably rather buy a full unopened case from them instead.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Finally Larry Fritsch does not have any 1979 rack boxes in football or baseball or 1980-81 basketball wax boxes or 72 third series FB wax. I guess we will have to see what prices go up in has next catalog. I can not believe he is really out but just taking a breather from advertising them and helping to control the market.
Looking forward to seeing some of their stash and the pricing.
Yes I know I can view them online but what fun is that?
<< <i>Do they not list everything in the catalog as online? I don't see anything in the way of vintage stuff on their site. Some stuff, but not a lot. >>
It's in the catalogue...hard copy or pdf file on line.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Really? Nevermind then.
I wonder if the BBCE or Dave and Adams or another dealer will eventually buy them out. That would be quite a deal.
I understand the rarity of older wax but people did horde 80s material and the cards in most of these sets are virtually worthless outside of 1 to 2 cards a set. Are people really buying 86 Topps to keep LOL or are they just busting it looking for a PSA 10's which are virtually impossible just like 1981 Topps.
I think the reason you see some later years being sold out is that people like cheap rips more than anything.
they like all of it. raw. because that's what MOST collectors collect.
Theoretically condition should be good, prices are high, but getting real info on card condition will be tough.
I also like to rip (some 80's) just for fun. I'll take 1986 Topps any day over 1987.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Of course they do have 1988, 1991, and I think 1990 Score and 1988 Donruss. All for $15 a box. That might be ok as there is no shipping. I need to find another store.
<< <i>Anyone ever bought full sets from Fritsch?
Theoretically condition should be good, prices are high, but getting real info on card condition will be tough. >>
I haven't but heard from people who have. People who bought years ago had missing cards but some gems mixed in. Recently the few examples I got weren't positive. The cards were heavily miscut or O/C. I was going to take a chance on a '73 set until I got feedback about what others had been receiving. I had been under the impression that the sets were hand built in the given year and then put away. That would be worth their prices. However, that's not the case. They build the sets to order. So they have boxes in the warehouse that they pull from to build sets. My guess is most of the better cards were pulled years ago leaving mostly the O/C and other factory defects remaining. That's why they used to list their sets as 'NM or better' but now list them as 'EX-MT or better'.
I would pay their ask price or more for sets that are truly random in terms of factory quality. However, for sets that have consistent factory issues throughout, they aren't worth half the ask price.
<< <i>Do people really care all that much about post 1980's material ever drying up? Is there anything really left to grade in 84 Donruss that can be said is still a low pop? I can fathom why anyone would want some of this stuff at those prices? Really $240 for a wax box of 84 Donruss?
I understand the rarity of older wax but people did horde 80s material and the cards in most of these sets are virtually worthless outside of 1 to 2 cards a set. Are people really buying 86 Topps to keep LOL or are they just busting it looking for a PSA 10's which are virtually impossible just like 1981 Topps. >>
Yes, there are millions of raw and graded rookies of Sandberg, Gwynn, McGwire etc. out there that only sell for $3 to $5 each, but yet people will still pay $70 to $90 a box for the thrill of trying to pull yet another themselves. That is the beauty of unopened wax. Its value has and will continue to rise over time. Same will happen with certain late 1980s and early 1990s wax as players from those years begin entering the hall of fame and the supply of wax begins to somewhat diminish. It already has to some extent.
<< <i>
<< <i>Do people really care all that much about post 1980's material ever drying up? Is there anything really left to grade in 84 Donruss that can be said is still a low pop? I can fathom why anyone would want some of this stuff at those prices? Really $240 for a wax box of 84 Donruss?
I understand the rarity of older wax but people did horde 80s material and the cards in most of these sets are virtually worthless outside of 1 to 2 cards a set. Are people really buying 86 Topps to keep LOL or are they just busting it looking for a PSA 10's which are virtually impossible just like 1981 Topps. >>
Yes, there are millions of raw and graded rookies of Sandberg, Gwynn, McGwire etc. out there that only sell for $3 to $5 each, but yet people will still pay $70 to $90 a box for the thrill of trying to pull yet another themselves. That is the beauty of unopened wax. Its value has and will continue to rise over time. Same will happen with certain late 1980s and early 1990s wax as players from those years begin entering the hall of fame and the supply of wax begins to somewhat diminish. It already has to some extent. >>
Agreed. To me its much more satisfying to pull a card yourself than to buy it. And equally, if not more exciting to pull the card, submit it and hopefully get a high grade (obviously a 10). But its part of the fun and profit at the same time. Lots of people here try to divide the hobby from the dealer and there are extremes on both sides, but no matter if you are a hobbyist or otherwise and you pulled an 85 Topps Roger Clemens and it was graded a 10, its a great moment because of the card itself and the potential monetary value.
<< <i>I wonder how high the 72 Topps High series football pop report would get if Frisch sold all of his inventory (and it was opened).
I wonder if the BBCE or Dave and Adams or another dealer will eventually buy them out. That would be quite a deal. >>
I dont think Steve or D&A have the money to purchase a company like that. Even if they did , Do you put it on the site and flood the market resulting in lower prices or do you sell it in auctions? Maybe 1972 third series football is saturated already and thats why they are "temp out". Does that mean they have to go to another part of the whse and dust off a few hundred cases? Maybe in the near future boxes show up again at even higher prices.
<< <i>It is most definitely true that 1970s unopened material is no longer as plentiful. While there are still a few caches out there to become available, we've reached the
point at which if you want the material you are going to pay quite a bit more for it.
Look at 1973 Series 4 wax boxes as an example. 15 months ago one sold on Ebay for about $1800 to a member of this forum. In the November CollectAuctions
sale one went for over $3500 with the buyers premium!! In late 2011 a series 5 1973 wax box could be had for about $4300 and in the same November 2012
auction one went for over $6000!
Fritsch is very slowly letting their unopened out. You can't get them to sell in quantity. You can't even get them to discount at this point (last year there were still
ways to get 10%-15% discounts, but those days are gone). And who could argue with their approach? It's working for them very well (other than the 1971 Topps
vending which is just so outrageously priced that it is going to continue sitting in the Fritsch warehouse for the foreseeable future).
And as soon as anything from the 1970-1976 era shows up on BBCE's site, it's gobbled up within hours. Look at the 1975 Topps Mini and the 1972 Topps Ser 5/6
wax boxes that went up as the last break was getting off the ground. $1800 and $6600 respectively, and those may end up being real bargains. >>
I was the one that bought that box for 1800 (from Probstein - and he said it was a great price when I got it) - I immediately put it up for a Group Rip - my wife would have killed me if I didn't!
I've also bought quite a few '75 cellos from Fritsch in the past. They used to have good deals on % off, and then a coupon for another 10 bucks off. I pulled a few Bretts from those 75 cellos - most off center - but extremely fun rips regardless.
My collecting blog: http://ctcard.wordpress.com
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Ditto on the 75 cellos...not long ago they offered up to 3 at (IIRC) $85 a pack. Now, it's like $110. >>
It looks like they raised everything $25/pack across the board. Boxes are up $600. It must be nice to control the market. Although I don't like the prices, I can't blame them at all for trying to maximize their return.
<< <i>Boxes that come straight from a case also are selling for more these days if you can find them. Also, did anyone notice that 1981 Topps Baseball wax boxes have been rising recently? Steve has a few left but D&A and others do not even have any right now. Steve has 1 box left of 1980 topps football and that one is moving foreward. Check completed auctions on the bay and one will see that Steves prices are pretty reasonable. I believe that 70s- mid 80s sealed rack cases fot the most part will be golden especially with stars showing.
Finally Larry Fritsch does not have any 1979 rack boxes in football or baseball or 1980-81 basketball wax boxes or 72 third series FB wax. I guess we will have to see what prices go up in has next catalog. I can not believe he is really out but just taking a breather from advertising them and helping to control the market. >>
Gee that's nice to hear.
Over 20 yrs ago I bought a rack case of 81T - don't know why - other than it was cheap - hard to believe but the 87D boxes that were hot as all get out back then were going for more than these racks!
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
Gee that's nice to hear.
Over 20 yrs ago I bought a rack case of 81T - don't know why - other than it was cheap - hard to believe but the 87D boxes that were hot as all get out back then were going for more than these racks!
This is your lucky day, I happen to have a box or 2 of 1987 Donruss and I like
you, so Im willing to trade strait across!!
<< <i>Gee that's nice to hear.
Over 20 yrs ago I bought a rack case of 81T - don't know why - other than it was cheap - hard to believe but the 87D boxes that were hot as all get out back then were going for more than these racks!
This is your lucky day, I happen to have a box or 2 of 1987 Donruss and I like
you, so Im willing to trade strait across!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Nice '79 Rack Case Mike! >>
Oh my!
PM sent. >>
That's a shocker! LOL!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
<< <i>'87 VENDING! NICE! >>
Hiya Eric
I know - not very impressive - I paid 100 bucks many moons ago - now it's kindling.
I do have the run from '79 to '87. Mike wanted me to organize it - but I can barely reach it all - quite a few cases are still in blue plastic cases in another closet and my wife wants it moved!
<< <i>
<< <i>Nice '79 Rack Case Mike! >>
Oh my!
PM sent. >>
And change your undies. I'm sure they are moist(or something)
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Mike, you've amassed quite an impressive unopened collection over the years! >>
Thanx Tim.
<< <i>
<< <i>Mike, you've amassed quite an impressive unopened collection over the years! >>
Thanx Tim. >>
But, but, but... According to some, those cases don't exist, so it must be a mirage.
Sweet hoard, Mike.
My collecting blog: http://ctcard.wordpress.com
<< <i>I think that's the point , it's moved from open market into private collections. >>
Think most reasonable collectors believe that's the case. Others, not so much.
It reminds me of the [insert applicable circumstance(s) here] bubble. People with ulterior motives scream from the rooftops "buy now before it's too late" and then drop the hammer when prices hit a perceived apex, with Joe Schmoe holding the bag.
1984 Topps wax boxes - all gone.
1986 Donruss wax boxes - all gone.
Not saying that this stuff will be hard to replace but it seems its obvious the 70's stuff is drying up to the point that people are now going after the 80's, and why wouldn't they. The 80's has a ton of great players. The stuff is cheap compared to what the previous decade sells for and now, adults who have kids are ripping packs with there children and probably introducing them to guys like Clemens and Mattingly.
Nice to see this stuff in more demand as of recent. Heck, it only took 25-30 years. Imagine if it was 1989 and there was still unopened wax boxes from 1959-1965. Same amount of years have passed from the mid 80's up to today.