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PCGS Restoration Service
lkeigwin
Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
From an email announcement today.
Lance.
Restoration Service
Starting January 1, 2013, we will be offering a PCGS Restoration Service. This service will be provided only for those coins which we believe have problems that can be alleviated by professional restoration, basically mild cleaning.
It is extremely important to note that this isn’t a service to arbitrarily clean every coin in existence and make them all “white”. And we will refuse to work on any coin that has attractive natural toning that is being sent to us just because the owner wants a white coin. There are certain practices that are accepted in the numismatic community (“dipping” silver coins being a prime example) and those are the only things we will do for you.
So for example, if you have a silver coin with problem spots or some ugly toning areas, we will professionally “dip” the coin for you if we think the coin will benefit, but we won’t “dip” a coin with nice natural toning. We have published a list of what we view as both acceptable restoration work and unacceptable coin doctoring on our website at www.pcgs.com/restoration/policy.
There will be no guarantee that coins will be upgraded. This service will be offered for PCGS and uncertified coins only, and the PCGS Grading Guarantee will apply to all PCGS coins submitted. You can elect to have us remove your coin from another holder.
The fee will be $25 per coin if we decide that the coin should not or cannot be restored. If we actually do restore the coin the fee will be 4% of the final value (based on the PCGS Price Guide or the declared value whichever is higher) plus the appropriate grading fee. The details of the PCGS Restoration Service can be found on our website at www.pcgs.com/restoration.
(edited to make hyperlinks)
Lance.
Restoration Service
Starting January 1, 2013, we will be offering a PCGS Restoration Service. This service will be provided only for those coins which we believe have problems that can be alleviated by professional restoration, basically mild cleaning.
It is extremely important to note that this isn’t a service to arbitrarily clean every coin in existence and make them all “white”. And we will refuse to work on any coin that has attractive natural toning that is being sent to us just because the owner wants a white coin. There are certain practices that are accepted in the numismatic community (“dipping” silver coins being a prime example) and those are the only things we will do for you.
So for example, if you have a silver coin with problem spots or some ugly toning areas, we will professionally “dip” the coin for you if we think the coin will benefit, but we won’t “dip” a coin with nice natural toning. We have published a list of what we view as both acceptable restoration work and unacceptable coin doctoring on our website at www.pcgs.com/restoration/policy.
There will be no guarantee that coins will be upgraded. This service will be offered for PCGS and uncertified coins only, and the PCGS Grading Guarantee will apply to all PCGS coins submitted. You can elect to have us remove your coin from another holder.
The fee will be $25 per coin if we decide that the coin should not or cannot be restored. If we actually do restore the coin the fee will be 4% of the final value (based on the PCGS Price Guide or the declared value whichever is higher) plus the appropriate grading fee. The details of the PCGS Restoration Service can be found on our website at www.pcgs.com/restoration.
(edited to make hyperlinks)
Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
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Comments
been waiting on this one for a while
ty for posting the links and info
.
I've got some First Spouse to "refresh" 4% plus is steep though.
<< <i>.....so much for fighting Coin Doctors. >>
Can't fight them and win just do it right and win.
<< <i>So basically like the NCS offering. Not a bad deal if the coin needs it -- the 1897-O dollar posted by goldeneye would be a prime example of something "needing fixed!"
Ugh! Terrible Deal IMO.
The "restoration" service will now be quite expensive and IMO is exactly the same as the old "spot review" which was a no charge service. Additionally, the PCGS Price Guide will be used to determine the fee for the service which seems questionable since very few modern coins ever attain PCGS Price Guide Values.
The name is LEE!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>.....so much for fighting Coin Doctors. >>
Dipping is hardly doctoring.
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"Sou Mangueira......."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>What's the difference between "conservation" and "restoration"? >>
Conservation implies prevention whereas restoration is bringing back something that has already deteriorated/bin damaged.
Eric
<< <i>Its funny that when NGC started their service, it was bashed. But now that PCGS is doing it, suddenly its acceptable? Talk about a double standard. >>
Do you really think everyone who likes PCGS will find this new service to be acceptable?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>PCGS has had this from problem coins in their holders for years, now it appears they are offering their expertise to coins that need it prior to gettig holdered or just to aproch the value if it wasn't qute grade impacting. It lowers crack out dealers motivation if collectors can save coins instead of just lquidating them cheep (to the docs or rookie collectors) and moving on. Anyone who doesn't see this as a postive to the hobby and pcgs stock holders is blind. >>
No every coin collector considers the cleaning of coins to be positive to the hobby.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
And the World of Dipping and Stripping has gone public at PCGS
What is not said in the PCGS promotion of their new restoration service is what they will do when a coin is RUINED.
And if you speak to any knowledgeable numismatist including David Hall, there is a chance your coin sent in for restoration can be ruined.
I would also like to hear from Don Willis who at PCG S will be doing these questionable deeds.
Remember Dip It And Strip It !
I think it is time for me to take an extended hiatus. Anyway just about everything I post goes poof anyway.
Stewart Blay
<< <i>Its funny that when NGC started their service, it was bashed. But now that PCGS is doing it, suddenly its acceptable? Talk about a double standard. >>
I don't think it's acceptable to everybody.
Chris' Complete Lincoln Variety Set 1909-date
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
<< <i>Does this service replace or superceed the unwritten "spot" review service? >>
More likely it supplements it.
<< <i>
<< <i>PCGS has had this from problem coins in their holders for years, now it appears they are offering their expertise to coins that need it prior to gettig holdered or just to aproch the value if it wasn't qute grade impacting. It lowers crack out dealers motivation if collectors can save coins instead of just lquidating them cheep (to the docs or rookie collectors) and moving on. Anyone who doesn't see this as a postive to the hobby and pcgs stock holders is blind. >>
No every coin collector considers the cleaning of coins to be positive to the hobby. >>
Well if one equates the scrubbed raw vf coins on eBay being sold as gem as a baseline definition of cleaned I would agree but this isn't that. This is about stopping problems and preserving coins that have been mishandled in the past. Not all originality is good and not all restoration is negitive. I had a high end CC key date dollar that was covered in PVC and not only that it was toning around the gunk in splotches. It was turning rapidly, pcgs took the coin back and corrected the issues. Was pcgs and I obligated to give up on the rarity because people demand virgin coins? Are the 99.9999% of people who have unoriginal coins in their collections required to turn them in? Who gets to decide that acetone is ok but silver dip is not, they both take stuff off ? Might I remind you that just because dirt is vogue now, preferences change.
<< <i>"attractive natural toning" is as objective as grading. id like to read the disclaimer that applies to a coin that the owner regrets sending in. >>
I assume it will be available when the new forms are. Seems to me that if you approve the service based on THEIR recommendation and it doesn't turn out well that you will be compensated for your loss of value. Once in a PCGS holder, the normal guarantee kicks in. You can always DIY.
There is no formal written policy about crossovers that don't pass muster AFTER the coin has been cracked from its original holder, yet DW says that PCGS will compensate you for any loss should such an instance occur. Essentially if their actions cause your submitted items to lose value they will compensate you for that loss. Why should this service be treated any differently?
<< <i>
<< <i>Does this service replace or superceed the unwritten "spot" review service? >>
More likely it supplements it. >>
I don't necessarily agree with this as a "supplement" since spot review was always a quick dip to remove the spots (if that was feasible) followed with a reslabbing.
Now, folks are going to have to pay.
I remember back in the day (pre-Don Willis) when sending in a slabbed coin for variety attribution only cost the $24. Now, it costs $24 plus a $10 "reslabbing" fee. I expect that this new restoration service falls under the same scenario as what was once free will now cost additional funds.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Does this service replace or superceed the unwritten "spot" review service? >>
More likely it supplements it. >>
I don't necessarily agree with this as a "supplement" since spot review was always a quick dip to remove the spots (if that was feasible) followed with a reslabbing.
Now, folks are going to have to pay.
I remember back in the day (pre-Don Willis) when sending in a slabbed coin for variety attribution only cost the $24. Now, it costs $24 plus a $10 "reslabbing" fee. I expect that this new restoration service falls under the same scenario as what was once free will now cost additional funds. >>
Didn't they start charging for spot removal awhile back?
The news is disappointing, but hopefully PCGS will be more careful than others when doing the deed.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>.....so much for fighting Coin Doctors. >>
What is that old saying
"If you can't beat them, join them"
<< <i>
<< <i>"attractive natural toning" is as objective as grading. id like to read the disclaimer that applies to a coin that the owner regrets sending in. >>
I assume it will be available when the new forms are. Seems to me that if you approve the service based on THEIR recommendation and it doesn't turn out well that you will be compensated for your loss of value. Once in a PCGS holder, the normal guarantee kicks in. You can always DIY.
There is no formal written policy about crossovers that don't pass muster AFTER the coin has been cracked from its original holder, yet DW says that PCGS will compensate you for any loss should such an instance occur. Essentially if their actions cause your submitted items to lose value they will compensate you for that loss. Why should this service be treated any differently? >>
PCGS has said they guarantee a restored coin will not downgrade (below). Of course this doesn't necessarily mean everyone will be happy with the results. I don't see PCGS compensating if there is no drop in grade.
Lance.
"PRS is not an upgrade service. There is no guarantee that your coin will grade higher than as originally submitted. Actually, PRS offers no grade guarantee. PCGS will guarantee that the grade of any PCGS-certified coin will not go down."
Which service would you rather have?
Another difference is that PCGS will restore raw coins. That's pretty cool.
Lance.
<< <i>The spot review process was free for a long time. Recently PCGS required a nominal fee. Now, however it's $25 if PCGS does nothing, or 4% of the coin's value if it's treated at all.
Which service would you rather have?
Another difference is that PCGS will restore raw coins. That's pretty cool.
Lance. >>
oops, at quick glance I thought it was more similar.
<< <i>I wonder if all of the doctored ... er ... "restored" coins will get sniffed? "Hey it passes the sniff test, because our $%*#& doesn't stink!"
The news is disappointing, but hopefully PCGS will be more careful than others when doing the deed. >>
No doubt that they will use the sniffer BEFORE conserving as there are certain kinds of toning that leave the coin worse off than before dipping. I assume the sniffer will assist them in determining which kinds of AT/added toning can be successfully removed and which can't.
<< <i>.....so much for fighting Coin Doctors.
Do they supply a few Taco Bell napkins so you can Restart the Toning process again? >>
I'm sure our host (you know - the people who provide this free forum) find these comments hilarious.
Coin Rarities Online
So let me get this straight.
First we get this huge dog and pony show about Secure Plus and the vaunted "sniffer" and the big speeches about fighting the good fight against doctoring... along with the accompanying fancier labels and higher fees...
Plus the accompanying knocks here and elsewhere against NCS and what they do...along with the conventional wisdom that lumps dipping, etc. in with "doctoring" in general...
Now I guess doctoring's OK as long as PCGS does it...?
And they're even going to charge you $25 for not doing anything!
Wow. Just, wow.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>.....so much for fighting Coin Doctors.
Do they supply a few Taco Bell napkins so you can Restart the Toning process again? >>
I'm sure our host (you know - the people who provide this free forum) find these comments hilarious. >>
"For a fee of 5% of the graded price guide value, we'll (at our discression) store your lightly cleaned or slightly overdipped coin for you in an acceptable manner, such as one of our proprietary albums or envelopes, that produces attractive, Market-Acceptable toning in 6 months to one year's time, and then stabilize the toning and potentially grade the coin in a problem free holder."
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Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder if all of the doctored ... er ... "restored" coins will get sniffed? "Hey it passes the sniff test, because our $%*#& doesn't stink!"
The news is disappointing, but hopefully PCGS will be more careful than others when doing the deed. >>
No doubt that they will use the sniffer BEFORE conserving as there are certain kinds of toning that leave the coin worse off than before dipping. I assume the sniffer will assist them in determining which kinds of AT/added toning can be successfully removed and which can't. >>
That would make sense. But if the coin was PCGS-holdered they'd have to crack it first, of course. A buy back would follow, I guess.
Let's not have any more poofed threads or bammed members. PCGS is good to allow these threads but their tolerance for criticism is limited.
Lance.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder if all of the doctored ... er ... "restored" coins will get sniffed? "Hey it passes the sniff test, because our $%*#& doesn't stink!"
The news is disappointing, but hopefully PCGS will be more careful than others when doing the deed. >>
No doubt that they will use the sniffer BEFORE conserving as there are certain kinds of toning that leave the coin worse off than before dipping. I assume the sniffer will assist them in determining which kinds of AT/added toning can be successfully removed and which can't. >>
That would make sense. But if the coin was PCGS-holdered they'd have to crack it first, of course. A buy back would follow, I guess.
Let's not have any more poofed threads or bammed members. PCGS is good to allow these threads but their tolerance for criticism is limited.
Lance. >>
Poofing threads and bamming members for honest, open-minded, non-mean-spirited discussion about their new products and services would be a waste of their use of this forum and the excellent feedback that is provided by their customers and supporters.
I have a question though. Since the "sniffer" is rejecting coins dipped in ammonia , as "altered surfaces", can PCGS just send the coin to the "Restoration service", bill me $25 dollars, and holder the darn thing as problem-free? I would have NO PROBLEM paying this bill.
Free Trial
<< <i>Will this take care of the damn white milky spotting that seems to develop out of nowhere? >>
No, but they'll evidently still take your $25 to tell you that they can't do anything about it...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Normally I try to refrain from posts that could be interpreted as disparaging our hosts here, but I can't let this go without comment.
So let me get this straight.
First we get this huge dog and pony show about Secure Plus and the vaunted "sniffer" and the big speeches about fighting the good fight against doctoring... along with the accompanying fancier labels and higher fees...
Plus the accompanying knocks here and elsewhere against NCS and what they do...along with the conventional wisdom that lumps dipping, etc. in with "doctoring" in general...
Now I guess doctoring's OK as long as PCGS does it...?
And they're even going to charge you $25 for not doing anything!
Wow. Just, wow. >>
Plainly put, dipping is not doctoring as much as it is conserving.
Not all coins tone in lustrous rainbow hues. Some, quite frankly, tone up butt ugly and their resale prices confirm this.
O'm of the opinion that its not so mych the metal which creates toning as much as it is whats on the coins surface. NO coin, aside from a proof, is without some type of oil or cleaning agent on its surfaces. These agents react with the silver to produce toning. Even the old bagged Morgans produced some vivid toning due to the material of the mint bags.
Removing surface contaminents could not be considered "doctoring". Doctoring is removing physical imperfections such as puttying scratches and pits. Even silver coins have scratch removal processes, using other similar letals, which are detectable by the sniffer.
Polishing coins with ultra fine abrasives is doctoring as well. Heck, even whizzing is doctoring since it makes the coin "look" lustrous to the casual buyer.
Some purists may argue that a silver dip strips away the metal and it might just do that. But only on the electron microscope level and we all know how folks view electron microscope differences (i.e. varieties)!
If folks don't like the service then just don't use it. If folks don't like PCGS because of the service, change TPG's which will leave ya with ANACS or ICG since NGC offers the same service.
My only beef, is what was once free, is now a billable service which is a step backwards.
The name is LEE!
Full transparency will reveal a load of BS across the board IMHO. Who actually desires a "market acceptable coin"?
Ugh.
Eric
People on this board hold other people's coins to a standard that few (very very very few) actually collect by. This is a ridicules conversation IMO
I hate seeing a coin with gunk in the letters,etc in a holder...
Come on guys - we have all seen the ugly colors, the blackness accross the coin, the prints, etc. DIP IT! Who the heck is going to want a coin in their collection that looks like that!! not me..