@Insider2 said:
Next time I get a request to clean up a copper coin I'll post a before and after discussion. I've seen dull, brown,
AU-58 CWT's "pop" into "glossy," Brown-Red MS-64 and 65's numerous times. That's the point of Conservation!
silly me, I thought the point of "conservation" was to conserve not "make it pop"!
@Insider2 said:
Next time I get a request to clean up a copper coin I'll post a before and after discussion. I've seen dull, brown,
AU-58 CWT's "pop" into "glossy," Brown-Red MS-64 and 65's numerous times. That's the point of Conservation!
Quite often you get the same result with an application of "Care," "Blue Ribbon" or one of the other copper conservation products. Photographers have noted for years that an application of such products make copper coins more photogenic.
Any product that strips the protective skin from a copper piece is potentially dangerous. Exposure of the virgin metal under the patena runs the risk of spotting, corrosion and otherwise unattractive results.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@Insider2 said: Poll Question: There are about a dozen posters commenting in this thread. One or two say they have never used MS-70 on copper. Several (includes me) say they have with mixed results.
I'm interested in knowing if any of the folks posting opinions here have actually used this product on copper more than one time. Care to post an answer?
Okay ... I'll bite (even though I didn't post an opinion). I have used MS-70 on copper coins. My results were disappointing (to my eyes) which may the result of my naivety with MS-70 or the host coin was not a good candidate. Fortunately, the 'disimproved' coins were not valuable or significant.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
@Insider2 said:
Next time I get a request to clean up a copper coin I'll post a before and after discussion. I've seen dull, brown,
AU-58 CWT's "pop" into "glossy," Brown-Red MS-64 and 65's numerous times. That's the point of Conservation!
Quite often you get the same result with an application of "Care," "Blue Ribbon" or one of the other copper conservation products. Photographers have noted for years that an application of such products make copper coins more photogenic.
Any product that strips the protective skin from a copper piece is potentially dangerous. Exposure of the virgin metal under the patena runs the risk of spotting, corrosion and otherwise unattractive results.
You call it a protective "skin." While I don't know what to call it - "skin" works for me - it is a "substance" on the coin's surface caused as a result of a reaction with the environment. Over time, this "skin" changes the color of the surface and dulls the luster. MS-70 removes this contamination and restores the hidden luster if present.
As you know, Coin Care and MS-70 are two different products. One leaves the coin glossy w/a wet look and the other (MS-70) leaves the surface dry and "clean." A coin "brushed" with Care has a protective coating that attracts filth. An MS-70 coin is "stripped dry."
Many times they are used in combination, MS-70 then Care, then remove the traces of Care.
@Insider2 said:
Next time I get a request to clean up a copper coin I'll post a before and after discussion. I've seen dull, brown,
AU-58 CWT's "pop" into "glossy," Brown-Red MS-64 and 65's numerous times. That's the point of Conservation!
Quite often you get the same result with an application of "Care," "Blue Ribbon" or one of the other copper conservation products. Photographers have noted for years that an application of such products make copper coins more photogenic.
Any product that strips the protective skin from a copper piece is potentially dangerous. Exposure of the virgin metal under the patena runs the risk of spotting, corrosion and otherwise unattractive results.
You call it a protective "skin." While I don't know what to call it - "skin" works for me - it is a "substance" on the coin's surface caused as a result of a reaction with the environment. Over time, this "skin" changes the color of the surface and dulls the luster. MS-70 removes this contamination and restores the hidden luster if present.
As you know, Coin Care and MS-70 are two different products. One leaves the coin glossy w/a wet look and the other (MS-70) leaves the surface dry and "clean." A coin "brushed" with Care has a protective coating that attracts filth. An MS-70 coin is "stripped dry."
Many times they are used in combination, MS-70 then Care, then remove the traces of Care.
It is dangerous to call a natural surface oxide or sulfide as "contamination". Copper coins in their freshly struck state are NOT PURE COPPER ON THE SURFACE. Pure copper looks like a cent stripped in acid - that is pure copy. The "natural copper color" is the result of what you are now calling "contamination".
I don't claim to be a professional chemist. I just pretend to be like one at work. You send them in, I clean 'em up real good and real quick.
Call it what you wish. Anything that changes the surface of a "just struck coin" is a form of contamination. Perhaps you should read what Dr. Wilmar White has to say about beautiful rainbow toning...LOL.
The surfaces of metals change. Many of these changes protects them from further deterioration.
@Insider2 said:
I don't claim to be a professional chemist. I just pretend to be like one at work. You send them in, I clean 'em up real good and real quick.
Call it what you wish. Anything that changes the surface of a "just struck coin" is a form of contamination. Perhaps you should read what Dr. Wilmar White has to say about beautiful rainbow toning...LOL.
The surfaces of metals change. Many of these changes protects them from further deterioration.
Weimar White did some fun chemistry with coins - including toning them in the slabs with hydrogen sulfide.
@Insider2 said:
I don't claim to be a professional chemist. I just pretend to be like one at work. You send them in, I clean 'em up real good and real quick.
Call it what you wish. Anything that changes the surface of a "just struck coin" is a form of contamination. Perhaps you should read what Dr. Wilmar White has to say about beautiful rainbow toning...LOL.
The surfaces of metals change. Many of these changes protects them from further deterioration.
Weimar White did some fun chemistry with coins - including toning them in the slabs with hydrogen sulfide.
I've stood next to a nationally known/published chemist and watched him play with slabs and Hydrogen Sulfide. He was using a fume hood and the entire time he was telling me how dangerous the experiment was. He used slabs from each TPGS and was going to publish an account of his experiment in a numismatic periodical. He was being paid by a TPGS and perhaps that's why the article was never published.
ins - including toning them in the slabs with hydrogen sulfide.
I've stood next to a nationally known/published chemist and watched him play with slabs and Hydrogen Sulfide. He was using a fume hood and the entire time he was telling me how dangerous the experiment was. He used slabs from each TPGS and was going to publish an account of his experiment in a numismatic periodical. He was being paid by a TPGS and perhaps that's why the article was never published.
Weimar White did publish some of his results in his book. He also lectured on the subject. Now, those were circa 1995 slabs he was playing with. I don't know how much better current slabs are, but some of the "monster toned" slabs on eBay would suggest that they are still NOT air tight and can be toned with hydrogen sulfide.
Hydrogen sulfide is marginally dangerous to work with, but perfectly safe in a laboratory setting. We have a tank at work, although I've never cared to use it to tone anything - raw or slabbed.
@Insider2 said:
Next time I get a request to clean up a copper coin I'll post a before and after discussion. I've seen dull, brown,
AU-58 CWT's "pop" into "glossy," Brown-Red MS-64 and 65's numerous times. That's the point of Conservation!
When conserving, do you end up with the purplish pink look at the coin in the OP has or is it a more natural look? I have never conserved copper so trying to ask an honest question.
@Insider2 said:
Next time I get a request to clean up a copper coin I'll post a before and after discussion. I've seen dull, brown,
AU-58 CWT's "pop" into "glossy," Brown-Red MS-64 and 65's numerous times. That's the point of Conservation!
When conserving, do you end up with the purplish pink look at the coin in the OP has or is it a more natural look? I have never conserved copper so trying to ask an honest question.
My honest answer is at the end. You can skip the story in the middle.
As most of you here, I never used MS-70 in my life as a collector. Silver coin dip, Care, and Acetone were my chemicals of choice. Then I got "schooled." Another collector introduced me to MS-70. You see, when cleaning a clad coin, the coin dip will turn the copper core on the edge an unnatural "pink" color. MS-70 does not. As you can see from the OP's post, MS-70 works on copper. Here is "my" story...
About seven years ago while conserving a gem Proof 1877 Indian head with MS-70 (as I had done many times) the coin turned iridescent BLUE! Holy crap, I thought I was in heap big trouble. That's Native American Indian (PC) lingo for OMG what am I going to do now? I saw the pink slip right before my eyes. I put on an additional coating and the coin did not change. If anything, the blue color got deeper and it may have moved to different parts of the coin. When I showed the coin to my lab mate, he smiled at my terror and then, rather than fix it immediately, the NLittleS (who worked for a reputed "coin doctor" at one time) let me suffer for a short time. Later, the simple application of another chemical restored its beautiful original color and I learned a new "trick-of-the-trade."
For a time, this blue color was prized. It can occur naturally. I like the OP's coin and told him he did an excellent job. It just needs to be finished. After restoring its RB color, I should have removed the tiny black spots in the letters also.
End of the story.
MS-70 IS USED TO CONSERVE COINS OF ALL ALLOYS, even tin.
Comments
I don't use it on many of my coppers, only the ones I feel need it.
On coppers stored in a well stapled 2x2, the look seems to be stable.
The ones in my 7070 definitely need re-application from time to time.
That was awful nice of you to have freed that toning, Smitty. lol
Yes, applying MS-70 is cleaning, and "acceptable" is judged solely in the eye of the beholder.
silly me, I thought the point of "conservation" was to conserve not "make it pop"!
Quite often you get the same result with an application of "Care," "Blue Ribbon" or one of the other copper conservation products. Photographers have noted for years that an application of such products make copper coins more photogenic.
Any product that strips the protective skin from a copper piece is potentially dangerous. Exposure of the virgin metal under the patena runs the risk of spotting, corrosion and otherwise unattractive results.
Okay ... I'll bite (even though I didn't post an opinion). I have used MS-70 on copper coins. My results were disappointing (to my eyes) which may the result of my naivety with MS-70 or the host coin was not a good candidate. Fortunately, the 'disimproved' coins were not valuable or significant.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
You call it a protective "skin." While I don't know what to call it - "skin" works for me - it is a "substance" on the coin's surface caused as a result of a reaction with the environment. Over time, this "skin" changes the color of the surface and dulls the luster. MS-70 removes this contamination and restores the hidden luster if present.
As you know, Coin Care and MS-70 are two different products. One leaves the coin glossy w/a wet look and the other (MS-70) leaves the surface dry and "clean." A coin "brushed" with Care has a protective coating that attracts filth. An MS-70 coin is "stripped dry."
Many times they are used in combination, MS-70 then Care, then remove the traces of Care.
It is dangerous to call a natural surface oxide or sulfide as "contamination". Copper coins in their freshly struck state are NOT PURE COPPER ON THE SURFACE. Pure copper looks like a cent stripped in acid - that is pure copy. The "natural copper color" is the result of what you are now calling "contamination".
I don't claim to be a professional chemist. I just pretend to be like one at work. You send them in, I clean 'em up real good and real quick.
Call it what you wish. Anything that changes the surface of a "just struck coin" is a form of contamination. Perhaps you should read what Dr. Wilmar White has to say about beautiful rainbow toning...LOL.
The surfaces of metals change. Many of these changes protects them from further deterioration.
Weimar White did some fun chemistry with coins - including toning them in the slabs with hydrogen sulfide.
I've stood next to a nationally known/published chemist and watched him play with slabs and Hydrogen Sulfide. He was using a fume hood and the entire time he was telling me how dangerous the experiment was. He used slabs from each TPGS and was going to publish an account of his experiment in a numismatic periodical. He was being paid by a TPGS and perhaps that's why the article was never published.
ins - including toning them in the slabs with hydrogen sulfide.
Weimar White did publish some of his results in his book. He also lectured on the subject. Now, those were circa 1995 slabs he was playing with. I don't know how much better current slabs are, but some of the "monster toned" slabs on eBay would suggest that they are still NOT air tight and can be toned with hydrogen sulfide.
Hydrogen sulfide is marginally dangerous to work with, but perfectly safe in a laboratory setting. We have a tank at work, although I've never cared to use it to tone anything - raw or slabbed.
GREAT THREAD! I feel like I should be paying for this seminar...
When conserving, do you end up with the purplish pink look at the coin in the OP has or is it a more natural look? I have never conserved copper so trying to ask an honest question.
Latin American Collection
Looks like the copper so many copper dealers call “amazingly original”
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
My honest answer is at the end. You can skip the story in the middle.
As most of you here, I never used MS-70 in my life as a collector. Silver coin dip, Care, and Acetone were my chemicals of choice. Then I got "schooled." Another collector introduced me to MS-70. You see, when cleaning a clad coin, the coin dip will turn the copper core on the edge an unnatural "pink" color. MS-70 does not. As you can see from the OP's post, MS-70 works on copper. Here is "my" story...
About seven years ago while conserving a gem Proof 1877 Indian head with MS-70 (as I had done many times) the coin turned iridescent BLUE! Holy crap, I thought I was in heap big trouble.
That's Native American Indian (PC) lingo for OMG what am I going to do now? I saw the pink slip right before my eyes. I put on an additional coating and the coin did not change. If anything, the blue color got deeper and it may have moved to different parts of the coin. When I showed the coin to my lab mate, he smiled at my terror and then, rather than fix it immediately, the NLittleS (who worked for a reputed "coin doctor" at one time) let me suffer for a short time. Later, the simple application of another chemical restored its beautiful original color and I learned a new "trick-of-the-trade."
For a time, this blue color was prized. It can occur naturally. I like the OP's coin and told him he did an excellent job. It just needs to be finished. After restoring its RB color, I should have removed the tiny black spots in the letters also.
End of the story.
MS-70 IS USED TO CONSERVE COINS OF ALL ALLOYS, even tin.