Does the "certification" service(s) affect your coin purchasing decision?

CCGGG

I know you are supposed to buy the coin and not the holder, but how much does the holder (certification service) really influence your decision? Just 10 years ago, I’d buy a coin, no matter if it was raw, or slabbed or from any grading service. I found a lot bargain’s with raw or 2nd tier grading service coins since many dealers would be willing to deal on those. Most of time, when I sent a raw or 2nd tier graded coin in for crossover, it would come back "as I suspected", and valued for about what I paid for it. It's a interesting way to test your grading capabilities. However, I now find at a coin shows that I’m not even looking at raw or second tier graded coins. Yes, I may miss a coin I’m looking for, or even a good buy, but the time, hassle and “risk” of a raw or crossover grading has become a real downer for me especially now that my collection is near the grade levels I want. There are raw fakes out there, I’ve got a few to prove it! Although, I’ve never got a fake in a slab,,,, that I know of.

These days I prefer only PCGS graded coins. I still look at, and would buy, a NGC graded coin but it’s going to have to be an outstanding coin since I’d rather keep looking for the coin already in a PCGS slab rather than go through the crossover process. Now it’s getting worse for me. I want my graded coins to have a CAC sticker too. Otherwise it means “months” in shipping and grading time (PCGS and CAC) not to mention the cost (which I'll admit is usually small in comparison to the coins value that I'm buying).

Are any of you guys (or gals) evolving to this point with your collections?

topstuf

Of course not!

....Laura

Zoins

For me, it depends on how common of a coin is the one I'm interested in. If it's available in all holders, then I'd lean to my preferred TPG, especially if it has a TrueView already.

If it's not available in all holders and the only real, other choice is to not buy it, then I'll still pick it up. I have a variety of pieces in the top 4 TPGs because of this.

PerryHall

NGC or PCGS or PASS. Obviously, I also have to like the coin and agree with the assigned grade and the price has to be realistic.

coinnut

I prefer PCGS graded coins but will buy any coin in any holder if I really like the coin. I also buy raw coins for my albums and will crack anything not in a PCGS or NGC holder for my albums. Doing a crossover is kind of a pain but like I said if it's a coin I really like then I will do it. As for the green bean, I guess it's nice to have when it comes time to sell but it doesn't influence my decision to buy.

Cameonut

For Cameo proofs for my collection - PCGS only. If not for my set, I'll consider NGC.
For most everything else, I'll let the coin talk to me, but stick to the big 4 services.

Paradisefound

There are so much thought and consideration before any coin is purchased now these days.
I see your points especially the premium PCGS holdered coins command and the hassles to get to CAC's by started on a raw. Some of the coins in older NGC 1st / 2nd generation show much better eye appeal than their grades; may cross over nicely if not up a grade or +; particularly the Saint I've been studying.
Before you get to CAC is another added cost and the chance pending on your keen eye on purchasing raws. I have a few raw Saints I thought would grade 64 but returned 63 & AU58 + $32 p/coin + shipping & insurance; I should've pay the premium for those already in PCGS holder.
Have fun collecting!

BlindedByEgo

Virtually all of us buy insurance. Some insurance providers are AAA rated, some are not. Regardless, we assume we will be protected if the time of need comes.

Trusted coin dealers, TPG plastic and secondary grading services are all forms of insurance; their value becomes wholly evident when it is time to sell.

The question, then, answers itself.

Boosibri

Of course it does.

I know some dealers try to cross everything that makes economical sense, if they offer a coin in an NGC holder I know of failed to cross maybe once, maybe a few times. That is a data point.

If I want to max the value / liquidity of a coin for resale it is PCGS CAC. If a coin is in an NGC holder that can equal more cost to move the coin.

LindeDad

Yes hardly ever look at one's our hosts didn't grade.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

...I rarely ever buy anything outside of the 2 but last night I bought my first ICG graded coin...the circumstances were right and we will see...I only spent $200 so that’s potentially the most I will be out of in the end...but who knows, maybe it will all be ok

cameonut2011

No.

mvs7

I want to have coins I keep long term in PCGS holders, both for the registry and because I just prefer the look of them. As some others have mentioned, if a coin I'm looking for is readily available in holders of multiple grading services, I will wait to find a quality PCGS or preferably PCGS/CAC example. I will crossover coins on occasion, if it's rare in any holder, if it's a world coin I like (where grading pops still skew toward NGC at the moment), or US coins in NGC plastic with interesting pedigrees (like Eliasberg).

topstuf

And NGC holders will jam a blue box.

RogerB

So long as the coin is authentic the holder is immaterial.

topstuf

But then I bought Zohar's box and love it.

Desert Moon

Yes because the perception of market value is dictated by the slab surrounding the coin. It is what it is.

Best, SH

BillJones

I put an “agree” on your post because I agreed with 90% of what you wrote. The difference between us is that the grading of U.S. coins has ruined the U.S. regular issue coin aspect of the hobby for me. You have to jump though so many grading hoops now, it’s not worth the bother and the expense. Part of the time, I don’t agree with the grades on the coins that have jumped through all the hoops, and that’s turning into a problem for me. Yet, those items seem to be the only pieces that get any respect in the market.

I’m having more fun with the dark side now, tokens, medals, British coins and perhaps ancient Roman. I recently completed a set of at least one coin for every British monarch from Edward the Confessor to Queen Elizabeth II, that is collectable. I’m also spending more time delving more deeply into what I have by building research notebooks and exhibits. I just hope that the stickers and labels don't invade the dark side.

JBN

For the slabbed portion of the collection, including my old half dollars, dollars, and the registry sets: PCGS & CAC.

For the remainder of the collection in Capital Holders, Danscos, and my old Whitmans: Any and all certification services are on the radar, as the coins will be freed. NOTE: I do respect the holder collectors here. Several months ago, I passed on an old green holder with the dot matrix printing, even though I liked the coin.

Walkerfan

PCGS or NGC only for me. Stickers are nice but not mandatory.

CCGGG

@JBN said:

For the remainder of the collection in Capital Holders, Danscos, and my old Whitmans: Any and all certification services are on the radar, as the coins will be freed. NOTE: I do respect the holder collectors here.

That's a good point. I had totally forgot that I have a complete set of raw Franklin halfs in a Dansco album. Probably all 64's or better that I bought raw through the years, but still not worth slabbing. I probably could find some higher grade slabbed stuff that's cheap enough to crack out for that set and then I wouldn't care who graded it.

logger7

My decisions are largely economic based on whether something is a good deal. So even raw or problem coins are worth picking up if they will grade well or can be conserved.

DNADave

I generally stick with PCGS for my PCGS type set , however, I buy anything that I like. I'd just as soon buy an old ANACS holdered coin (pre 2,000,000 or so cert. no.) as anything. CAC means zero to me.

RockyMtnProspector

Buy the coin not the holder. I prefer PCGS for registry, but I've seen some dogs in PCGS (real head-scratchers) that wouldn't CAC by a mile. I like older NGC and ANACS white holders, but if you look at the coin and not the holder, and know how to grade, you can cherry pick future PCGS CAC-stickered coins in the same grade or higher.

For instance, a couple years ago I ended up purchasing a 1934-S Walker that was in ANACS gold holder 64, with really nice toning. It was priced at PCGS 63, non-CAC money. I bought it, crossed it at 64, and then a green bean. Was really a no-brainer, since ANACS had correctly graded the coin.

To recap: I like the "easy" route and will go with preferred grader first, but I never pass up those coins that shout out from the cases raw or slabbed, that you can tell are all there and then some.

dlmtorts

No. Buy the coin. While PGS plastic is preferable, i like raw coins too

cameonut2011

I don't deny that plastic matters when it comes to sell, but what difference does it make to you as a buyer? Some of my best purchases/profits come from coins that many would have never touched because of the plastic tomb. In the last year, I have had scores from ANACS, ICG, and even SEGS slabs.

ChristopherCoins

@CCGGG said:
I know you are supposed to buy the coin and not the holder, but how much does the holder (certification service) really influence your decision?

It matters due to my failure to get even CAC NGC coins to cross at PCGS. I glance at NGC slabbed coins (especially old holder) but it would have to be an exceptional coin for me to take the risk.

thechristophercollection.net

koynekwest

@ChristopherCoins said:

@CCGGG said:
I know you are supposed to buy the coin and not the holder, but how much does the holder (certification service) really influence your decision?

It matters due to my failure to get even CAC NGC coins to cross at PCGS. I glance at NGC slabbed coins (especially old holder) but it would have to be an exceptional coin for me to take the risk.

thechristophercollection.net

That says something about the value of all these stickers IMO.

I always buy the coin, not the slab although I have nearly 100% of my stuff in PCGS slabs. Unfortunately not too many of today's collectors can grade without help from the slabbing services and even then can't be sure of the grade given without a sticker.

BryceM

I collect coins, but realistically most of what I buy is subject to upgrade or sale and I sell coins almost as often as I buy. If you do, and care about the financial implications, you have to be aware of market preferences and trends, even if you don’t agree with all of them. The same coin in two different holders WILL bring different money. That’s just reality.

I’d consider a coin in any plastic, but at different price points.

skier07

@cameonut2011 said:
I don't deny that plastic matters when it comes to sell, but what difference does it make to you as a buyer? Some of my best purchases/profits come from coins that many would have never touched because of the plastic tomb. In the last year, I have had scores from ANACS, ICG, and even SEGS slabs.

It matters because in all likelihood my collection will eventually be sold. If I have an untimely demise I’ve made things a lot easier for my estate and they stand to benefit financially.

cameonut2011

@skier07 said:

@cameonut2011 said:
I don't deny that plastic matters when it comes to sell, but what difference does it make to you as a buyer? Some of my best purchases/profits come from coins that many would have never touched because of the plastic tomb. In the last year, I have had scores from ANACS, ICG, and even SEGS slabs.

It matters because in all likelihood my collection will eventually be sold. If I have an untimely demise I’ve made things a lot easier for my estate and they stand to benefit financially.

That's why I do crossovers or crack and submit to PCGS as raw. If you buy it "right" and leave a margin of error, you're fine as long as you have learned how to grade and detect problem coins.

mannie gray

@cameonut2011 said:
I don't deny that plastic matters when it comes to sell, but what difference does it make to you as a buyer? Some of my best purchases/profits come from coins that many would have never touched because of the plastic tomb. In the last year, I have had scores from ANACS, ICG, and even SEGS slabs.

I agree....raw, NGC, ANACS, ICG, etc.
If I can sell it for a profit, I don't care.
Just last week I made over 100% on a PCI coin.
Please don't look at any coins other than PC/CAC ones.
More stuff for me.

Paradisefound

@BillJones

well said BillJones, I really like the perspective.....

ricko

Since I collect and do not sell, it is the coin I look at, not the holder (if it is even in a holder). I am very careful when buying gold though... and more likely to buy gold coins in a slab, unless from the mint. I do have a couple of raw gold coins... However, I was very sure of their authenticity when I purchased them. My slabbed coins are from the four majors and I do not intend to cross any not from our hosts. Cheers, RickO

oih82w8

It depends on the coin's eye appeal, primarily...the holder is secondary and can be changed.

Thundermonty

I only buy PCGS graded coins but thats more to keep my collection uniform than anything.

Azurescens

I can't stand dimes in the new NGC. Give me a fatty any day (or an old NGC holder ;D) and I'm happy. I just can't see my coin. I also don't like cents in PCGS. Anything else sure but they seem clumsy for a cent. Like.. cheap, I guess.

I'm filling some cent nickel and dime books and don't mind cracking out some of these 1-3 dollar slabs. I always buy the coin it depends what I'm doing with it.

BillyKingsley

Not in the least. In fact, I only bought a coin graded by our hosts just because I saw it as my way of helping pay the bills of the forum.

Of course, most of what I like to collect wouldn't be "worth" grading anyway. Roughly 85% of my US collection is circulated clad era. When I buy something vintage it's generally in the XF40 or lower state of preservation. These days I mostly collect modern world by type and just keep up with new US issues as they come out...I have not purchased any US coins in any form in about 2 years.

Twobitcollector

No, neither does the bean. Case in point this would look the same in any TPG slab.
Well at least the top 4.

ShadyDave

@cameonut2011 said:
I don't deny that plastic matters when it comes to sell, but what difference does it make to you as a buyer? Some of my best purchases/profits come from coins that many would have never touched because of the plastic tomb. In the last year, I have had scores from ANACS, ICG, and even SEGS slabs.

Many don't actually know how to accurately grade here. If you trust your ability, nothing matters outside of the coin and the price it is being offered for. Some of my best and cheapest purchases have been either raw or very cheap ICG, NNC or other basement slabbers.

Outhaul

TPG factor: 0%
Personal opinion: 100%

Azurescens

@ShadyDave said:
Many don't actually know how to accurately grade here. If you trust your ability, nothing matters outside of the coin and the price it is being offered for. Some of my best and cheapest purchases have been either raw or very cheap ICG, NNC or other basement slabbers.

An average coin passes through 8 people's hands and 4 dealers before finding a forever home.

Being the first set of hands on an old hoard removes 11 people from the equation. A majority of my raw coins are my faves.

asheland

I prefer PCGS then NGC. ANACS only if it's the small white holder AND I really like the coin.

RWM

No, unless I'm working on registry set. I do wish NGC still allowed PCGS coins in their sets. I guess it was just a simpler time.

TwoSides2aCoin

I enjoy coins. I could crack 'em out and still enjoy them, but I'm kind of weird that way.

Peace_dollar88

I prefer PCGS but will buy anacs or NGC. I hate how the NGC holders don't fit in the PCGS boxes.

Kkathyl

No, I only buy coins so I can post them here and get praise for them.

I buy all the above but do expect to pay a little more if it is in a PCGS holder.

Jimnight

No.

ctf_error_coins

I have bought 65 dollar labels for less than 10 bucks

oldgoldlover

I will buy a coin I like in a NGC holder but cross it to PCGS to keep what little I have consistent. So far I have had good luck with this as NGC trades at a discount. There is a major rare coin dealer that uses NGC exclusively to get the extra points. The only PCGS coins they have are traded in. They use the PCGS price guide but a grading service I/M/O that is a tick higher on a given coin. They are very active and know how best to prop up the bottom line.

A 53 in a PCGS holder often goes for more than a NGC 55. That tells me what holder I like but the coin must look good, and be graded as it should. My focus is so small I am familiar with all the dates in the run, their quality of strike and get pretty close to what it will grade. If you can find a nice coin in an NGC holder and cross it to PCGS on a same grade basis you should do well over the long haul.

PerryHall

It would be interesting to see what the responses would be if this same question were to be asked on the NGC Coin Forums.