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First SS Central America coins hit the market
jwitten
Posts: 5,077 ✭✭✭✭✭
Got an email from pcgs about these today. What's everyone's thoughts? The coins are higher than I want to pay, so I picked up a couple of the pinches of gold in the holders. I figured it was a fairly cheap way to be a part of the excitement.
https://www.universalcoin.com/ship-of-gold-treasures?cn=UWNRANO0318
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Thanks for the link.... nice promotional information. They sure are expensive. I would not pay that much simply for the history of the coin. I believe that the initial hype will sell many of them, but in the future, the premium will disappear. Cheers, RickO
Yes those prices are up there, especially when you consider that this new group of coins will possibly dilute the SS Central America coin market with more pieces.
Pinch is kinda cool.
Not to expensive.
just like u.s. mint releases, you pay for the hype for a few weeks, then premiums get wiped out as the interest fades
Yes expensive but I guess if it was my find, I would start out on the higher priced side as well. There is a lot of expense finding and getting the items from the sea floor to the collector. JMO
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
weren't $20 57-S 64s routinely going for under 10k in auction the last few years? Now there's an increase in supply and they bump it up a few k?
From my observation, the price of the pinch remains consistent. The coins, however, will go down like a one legged man doing the hokey-pokey.
Cheers
Bob
I don't see the weight of the pinch on the slab. Did they take the time to ensure that each pinch is the same weight?
Even if the prices were in line with the older Gold Foil coins, I don't like this type of setup... you can't pick an individual coin. I'm guessing that uber-toner they've been marketing won't be in the group of random $20s at a particular grade.
Yes, I just sold a 64 for $7500 and glad to get it.
How much is in a "pinch"? Is that about 1/40th of an ounce?
I love the "No dealers" but a limit of 10. Do "collectors" typically buy 10 of something? Aren't those just amateur dealers?
1.5 grams ???
Description
1857 S.S. Central America 1.5 grams of gold dust “pinch” from the California Gold Rush. Alongside the bars and coins, there was a large number of nuggets recovered from the shipwreck of the S.S. Central America, which sank in 1857. In addition to these artifacts, golden-brown flakes of gold, otherwise known as “pinches” and typically no more than a gram in weight, had been encapsulated by PCGS. These “slabs” of gold dust have been marketed over the past decade with great success. Only recently has PCGS created an enlarged plastic holder for these larger nuggets recovered from the shipwreck. We are told these are some of the first examples of nuggets from the excavated treasure of the Central America. Encapsulated with an assigned weight without a grade in a PCGS holder #1000/1060 Gold Foil.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Gold 1.5 gram gold dust “pinch” from the shipwreck of the S.S. Central America PCGS Gold Foil – SOLD
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I was quite interested...... then I saw the prices. Yikes!
With more and more coming up for sale, I think I'll be hunting for one in a few years when the premium has died down a bunch.
No weight given here for a pinch....................but it does have a date/mintmark
CERT VERIFICATION #57000250
According to the PCGS Certification Database, the requested certification number is defined as the following:
PCGS Coin Information
PCGS # 671486
Date, mintmark 1857
Denomination Pinch
Variety Pinch of Gold S.S. Central America #2 (with Pinch)
Country The United States of America
Grade Genuine (80 - Genuine)
Holder Type Standard
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
apparently a pinch was enough to buy a beer back in the day
Kinda silly when you can get REAL California gold that was used in commerce while the ships were busy sinking for way less money than the stuff that sank.
more gimmicks.
I'm not sure those are the same thing. In the original Central America sales, they were selling gold dust and nuggets with actual weights on the label. This "pinch" thing isn't specified. It says a pinch was equivalent to a 50 cent fractional which should be approximately 0.024 troy oz or 0.75 grams. So you've got two pinches there!
Vastly over priced for the value offered. Where is the after-market in these?
Very cool. Interesting slab.
Edited to add:
After perusing this website, I now know for certain I would never purchase a coin from them.
Ever.
Their website indicates that they are members of PCGS, NGC, PNG, are official contributors to the Red Book, and supporters of ICTA.
And then apropos of absolutely nothing, they include the NRA Business Alliance with these memberships and accolades.
I'm a firearm owner and a very proud supporter of the 2nd amendment. But I would never buy a coin, let alone a 5-figure coin, from an organization who supports the NRA.
I know for a fact that this appeals to many members here. It may be just enough to make some of my fellow posters buy a coin from this outfit. No sir. Not me. Not ever.
I don't mean to hijack this thread. This seller has included their sponsorship on their home page, so I feel it's relevant.
--Severian the Lame
They do sell on the secondary market...for less than the current offer. I think these prices are in line with the original group, but those coins dropped over time.
I had a woman try to sell me a 64 almost a year ago. At the time, I offered her $7000 because the market was $7500-$8000. Her husband had bought if for $10,500 a few years earler. She came back a couple months ago and needed to sell it. I offered her $6500 because the market was down to $7000. The 64 CAC still sell for over $10k. Straight 64s are more like $7000. So, I kind of think this is like a new car, it's going to drop 30% by the time the coin arrives in your mailbox.
https://ebay.com/itm/1857-S-U-S-GOLD-20-Central-America-Coin-Type-20A-Spiked-Shield-MS64-PCGS/352281142691?hash=item520597a5a3:g:ZBQAAOSwMfhag4F0
https://ebay.com/itm/1857-S-20-LIBERTY-GOLD-SS-CENTRAL-AMERICA-PCGS-MS64-CAC-CARTWHEEL-LUSTER/382343481077?hash=item59057286f5:g:KvUAAOSwCV5Z3C8K
https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-double-eagles/double-eagles/1857-s-20-variety-20b-ms64-pcgs-variety-20b/a/1271-6358.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-double-eagles/double-eagles/1857-s-20-spiked-shield-variety-20a-ms64-pcgs/a/1265-3299.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
this shipwreck contributed the financial panic of 1857, but, now, we are all like "meh" with this offering.
So the coins are over priced, but what about the pinch? I thought it was a decent price for what it is. I'm sure there will be tons of those on the market now though.
1) how did Universal Coin get in on this deal? The Website reads as a cheap infomercial and almost seems like it’s pandering to the unintiated layman.
2) I agree with you on the NRA tag. I’m also a gun owner and proud supporter of the second amendment but this is total turn off. It wouldn’t stop me from buying something from them but it would be my last resort
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Put your wallets back in your pockets and leave the buying to the uninitiated.
"Infomercial" is spot on. Maybe they know seasoned numismatists aren't their market, and they're selling the sizzle.
My local B&M takes in boxes full of certified presidential dollars and colorized state quarters in naughahide cases.
Is this the 5-figure equivalent?
--Severian the Lame
It's okay. If you look on eBay, you can find heavier nuggets and dust for a couple hundred bucks. So, it might drop a little bit, but I doubt it will drop so much as you'd notice. It is by far the most affordable little collectible. I looked long and hard at buying a pinch, but I would like to see an actual picture of one.
You gun afficionados make me want to buy one just to support the NRA - and I don't like guns. LOL
Here is an image of the nuggets that came with an SSCA coin from the initial offering...
@Weiss and @Justacommeman - when I saw the NRA thing, I didn't question it only because I just assumed they were primarily a "Guns and Gold" shop. On business trips, I sometimes try to visit local B&Ms if I have a half-day downtime... there's a lot of B&Ms out there that basically sell both guns and bullion, normally not in the same case, but still...
You are probably right. I believe they are in Texas and I know Dr Mike ( principal ?) is a big “In God We Trust” Motto guy on coins.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
so what is the price over spot for a pinch. And what is the weight of the pinch? If I pinch the gold will I see less if the pincher has small hands?
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I think they are dreaming if they think they will sell many at those prices!
I hate when there's a generic picture and "Add to cart" below it. Show me the actual coin.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
On the plus side there had been some suggestion that we would not see this batch of Central America treasure hit the market for public purchase until next year's Long Beach show. Those who want to be early adopters now have their opportunity. Curious though if this will move up the time table for others offering the coins?
Currently on the phone with the company that is selling these... will update here in a minute... lol
Yes, way too much money for a coin with stock images. Pass.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I called and spoke with reps multiple times. It’s pretty much a telemarketing type investment situation. Buying sight unseen. This seems to be geared toward investors vs. collectors. After asking for the smaller denoms multiple times and not the generic $20s, I was repeatedly asked how much in total I was willing to spend. I threw out $100k, but dependent on the actual coin (I don’t plan on spending any money actually). I got the vibe that 100k is small time and the guy on the phone knows nothing about coins or what I’d actually receive. It’s more of a “send up $500k and we’ll send you a group of coins to fill up that value”. Seems purely investment/speculation type of sale.
And as far as any other coins being available....”this list is coming soon”. It’s been all day and when I called back they said tomorrow, maybe. This list is likely going to the guy who said he has 1-2M to spend.
Again, I don’t plan to buy anything but I was curious. Seems like a gimmick at that point, not geared toward true collectors at all.
Wow. So, I just got off the phone with them. I bought two of the pinches, and they got my number from that. Called me to try to upsale me. I asked what the cheapest coin they had was, and they said it was a 1857-S $20 in AU58 for $7,176. Telling me it was the chance of a lifetime, guaranteed to go up in value. Said they would have a display at the NRA convention, and they would skyrocket after that. I am slightly embarrassed pcgs gave the link to these guys. Ugh.
Sounds to me like the same outfit is pushing Bitcoin and these SSCA Investment Opportunities of a Lifetime.
Be there or be Square .
Are they the only distributor or just one of many?
Also do they actually have these coins and the pokes in hand or are they jumping the gun to get out in front of the others? When you add an item to the cart it mentions credit card orders go out in 3-5 days, but that seems to be generic for all of their items rather than specific to these.
Not only way too high priced but the holder is too big!
Considering a pinch, and they seem to be moving.
There were 65 available when I checked this morning. Then around lunch it showed 177 available. Since then it's been going down through the afternoon.... 171, 165, and now at 5:00 EST it's showing 150 available.
Many of you buying pinches?
1TwoBits
Sounds slimy... but all tel-EEL marketers are like that.
I asked about the price of 1855-S double eagles, and was quoted a price of $8750 for an AU58, which is higher than the 1857-S in the same grade, but this earlier date always seems to sell for a premium over the more available dates (including the 1856-S).
What are the "donuts" made out of - the rings that enclose the gold particles and say "SHIPWRECK GOLD" or "CALIFORNIA GOLD DUST" ?
Are they printed cardboard or a die-struck metallic medal ?
This whole thing leaves me salty
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......