Can anyone direct me to where I should sell counterstamped bust HALVES not dollars. CORRECTION!

afford

I have approx 25 bust HALF dollars with counterstamps that I am looking to finally sell but have no clue where to got sell them. I am not interested in selling all on the BST and would be interested in knowing what dealers specialize in such material or worst case take it to HA but I rather not go the auction house route.
Thanks

Coinstartled

Are they raw or slabbed, Alan?

I would get them in plastic before selling.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Zoins

I don't really know of any dealers that specialize in counterstamped coins so I'm curious about the best place to sell them as well.

I'll just mention that both PCGS and ATS will certify counterstamped coins as problem free so it could be worthwhile to do. I would certainly do it in your position.

Here's an ATS Brunk S-768 sold by Kagin’s.

http://www.icollector.com/1799-Counterstamped-Bust-Dollar-W-H-Spiller-Brunk-S-768-Host-coin-B-11-BB-161-Rarity-3-EF-40_i26659630

Some from our host are here:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/994726/what-is-the-lowest-pcgs-graded-top-pop-1-0-coin#latest

Regulated

I have the Spiller now and a WW Light - I love counterstamped Bust Dollars, but never seem to be able to give them up...

Incidentally, the Spiller who counterstamped that Dollar was murdered.

BillJones

The Spanish Dollars that are counter stamped with King George's profile, large and small, (circa 1805-6 with various dates) are well known to collectors. Far less well known, and much rarer, are the American silver Dollars with the same mark. If you have one of those pieces, I would urge you to get it certified. My perception is that such a piece would attract strong bids at a major auction.

Broadstruck

For this type of material Stacks-Bowers would be my top auction house choice.

PerryHall

Would eBay with good pics be a good option if they are raw?

giorgio11

@afford said:
All raw.
You are most likely correct they should be slabbed, but I am not going to do it, as stupid as it may be.

You are leaving a lot of money on the table if you do not get them slabbed or at least get the auction house you consign them to to do it. Good luck!

Kind regards,

George

TLeverage

@BillJones said:
The Spanish Dollars that are counter stamped with King George's profile, large and small, (circa 1805-6 with various dates) are well known to collectors. Far less well known, and much rarer, are the American silver Dollars with the same mark. If you have one of those pieces, I would urge you to get it certified. My perception is that such a piece would attract strong bids at a major auction.

A dream coin of mine, but likely one that will never be fulfilled. Attached is the Norweb specimen with an octagonal countermark, which brought six figures ($110,000) in 2014, one of 5 confirmed U.S. silver dollars bearing the mark.

logger7

Probably GC would be a good option unless they are really specialized coins that need a slower auction house that attracts that limited number of hobbyists interested in counterstamped dollars, etc..

ricko

If you do not want to auction or use the BST, or slab them, I would say you are severely limiting yourself and your potential profits...In light of your parameters, why not just send them to me?? I will care for them and treat them well.... Good luck with your dilemma... Cheers, RickO

ShadyDave

@TLeverage said:

@BillJones said:
The Spanish Dollars that are counter stamped with King George's profile, large and small, (circa 1805-6 with various dates) are well known to collectors. Far less well known, and much rarer, are the American silver Dollars with the same mark. If you have one of those pieces, I would urge you to get it certified. My perception is that such a piece would attract strong bids at a major auction.

A dream coin of mine, but likely one that will never be fulfilled. Attached is the Norweb specimen with an octagonal countermark, which brought six figures ($110,000) in 2014, one of 5 confirmed U.S. silver dollars bearing the mark.

WOAH, cool! What is the story behind this coin???

BillJones

@ShadyDave said:

@TLeverage said:

@BillJones said:
The Spanish Dollars that are counter stamped with King George's profile, large and small, (circa 1805-6 with various dates) are well known to collectors. Far less well known, and much rarer, are the American silver Dollars with the same mark. If you have one of those pieces, I would urge you to get it certified. My perception is that such a piece would attract strong bids at a major auction.

A dream coin of mine, but likely one that will never be fulfilled. Attached is the Norweb specimen with an octagonal countermark, which brought six figures ($110,000) in 2014, one of 5 confirmed U.S. silver dollars bearing the mark.

WOAH, cool! What is the story behind this coin???

In 1804 the British economy was running short of circulating coinage. They had a large number of Spanish dollars, some Spanish half dollars and a very small number of U.S. silver dollars. Instead of going to the trouble of melting the pieces and recoining them into British pieces, the mint counterstamped the coins with two types of George III profiles. The coins were circulated as Bank of England dollars. The vast majority of these pieces are from Spanish dollars like this. The unflattering slang phrase for this piece was "The head of a fool on the neck of an ass."

But there are a small number of U.S. dollars that also got the treatment. This one is on display at the Tower of London in the old mint building.

Perhaps we could call this one, "The head of a fool on the neck of a goddess."

shorecoll

You could try the aforementioned Kagin's or maybe HLRC (Harry Laibstain), either would get them slabbed as the first step in a sale process.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

JBK

...and I meant to say counterfeit instead of counterstamped.

Zoins

@Regulated said:
I have the Spiller now and a WW Light - I love counterstamped Bust Dollars, but never seem to be able to give them up...

Incidentally, the Spiller who counterstamped that Dollar was murdered.

Thanks for the info. The story is actually very interesting. Here's some more info with some excerpts.

Spiller was killed by an unsuccessful suitor for his daughter Catherine Markham Spiller. Marrying off your daughter was a life threatening activity back then.

His killer, James Austin Graham was found "not guilty by reason of temporary insanity" and committed permanently to the state insane asylum. Why should someone be committed permanently for a temporary condition?

A GUIDE TO THE SPILLER-BROWN FAMILY LETTERS, 1854-1859

http://ead.lib.virginia.edu/vivaxtf/view?docId=wcc/viwyc00132.xml

BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION

William Hickman Spiller, son of Hickman Spiller and Catherine M. Smith Spiller, was born on 8 October 1800. He married Susanna Crockett in Wythe County on 22 December 1831. A successful merchant, Spiller amassed great wealth through his real estate transactions and his various general merchandise stores (Auman and Spiller, Henderliter and Spiller, Bosse and Spiller); at his death in 1855 his estate was worth over $29,000 and included 49 slaves.
[...]
James Austin Graham, angered over an unsuccessful wooing of Catherine Spiller, shot William Hickman Spiller on 31 March 1855 at the Boyd Hotel in Wytheville, Virginia. Spiller was in the bar room with Connally F. Trigg, William Terry, Charles Crockett, Oscar Cox, and Mr. Taliaferro. Graham shot Trigg, who was wounded, before shooting Spiller, who died later in the office of Dr. Ewing. Spiller is buried in St. John's Lutheran Church Cemetery in Wytheville, Virginia.
[...]
Letter. Jane S. Brown, Wytheville, Virginia to Alexander Brown Stuart. 2 April 1855.
2 p.
She writes about the murder of William Hickman Spiller by James Austin Graham, telling him that a large posse of men are tracking Graham who is still at large and that the wedding of Catherine Markham Spiller is postponed. "It made me think of your escape with renewed thankfulness and the situation in which you were placed went far to reconcile me to your departure that you may be happy in your new home."

Here's some more on the fate of James Austin Graham, the killer. The book looks very interesting and I may have to pick up a copy.

Soldier of Southwestern Virginia: The Civil War Letters of Captain John Preston Sheffey

In 1855 James Austin Graham, a member of an affluent Wythe County family, shot and killed William Spiller in a local hotel. Graham had sought in vain to marry one of the Spiller daughters and blamed the father for his failure. James White Sheffey was prosecuting attorney in th eensuing trial. For the first time in Virginia jurisprudence, the defendant was adjudged "not guilty by reason of temporary insanity." Graham was committed permanently to the state insane asylum.

Barndog

call Sheridan and ask him

logger7

@BillJones said:

@ShadyDave said:

@TLeverage said:

@BillJones said:
The Spanish Dollars that are counter stamped with King George's profile, large and small, (circa 1805-6 with various dates) are well known to collectors. Far less well known, and much rarer, are the American silver Dollars with the same mark. If you have one of those pieces, I would urge you to get it certified. My perception is that such a piece would attract strong bids at a major auction.

A dream coin of mine, but likely one that will never be fulfilled. Attached is the Norweb specimen with an octagonal countermark, which brought six figures ($110,000) in 2014, one of 5 confirmed U.S. silver dollars bearing the mark.

WOAH, cool! What is the story behind this coin???

In 1804 the British economy was running short of circulating coinage. They had a large number of Spanish dollars, some Spanish half dollars and a very small number of U.S. silver dollars. Instead of going to the trouble of melting the pieces and recoining them into British pieces, the mint counterstamped the coins with two types of George III profiles. The coins were circulated as Bank of England dollars. The vast majority of these pieces are from Spanish dollars like this. The unflattering slang phrase for this piece was "The head of a fool on the neck of an ass."

But there are a small number of U.S. dollars that also got the treatment. This one is on display at the Tower of London in the old mint building.

Perhaps we could call this one, "The head of a fool on the neck of a goddess."

It reminds me of the mutant guy in the original "Total Recall".

Veep

I had always heard that the first successful use of the temporary insanity plea in the U. S. was by Edwin Stanton on behalf of Dan Sickles for the 1859 murder of Philip Barton Key, the son of Francis Scott Key. If true, this instance would have preceded that usage.

lkeigwin

@Barndog said:
call Sheridan and ask him

Agree. PM sent.

BTW, are they mostly Houck's Panacea?
Lance.

lkeigwin

Here's a little write-up on them from Sheridan's site:

If you have an interest in countermarked coins you are familiar with the name Jacob Houck. Houck used circulating coins to advertise his business. He wacked away at quarters, half-dollars, dollars and sundry foreign specie, placing a prominent cartouche in the obverse field that identified himself, his favorite elixir and the city where he could be found: Houck’s – Panacea – Baltimore. The vast majority of Houck’s countermarks are on capped bust half-dollars, most of those with dates in the 1830s.

Houck also placed expansive ads in newspapers. His logo featured the Tree of Life, topped with a sunburst and ribbon-ended scroll that proclaimed HOUCK’S PANACEA. The text of his ads generally began with capital letters – “shouting” in today’s Internet-texting parlance – assuring one and all that his PANACEA was PREPARED SOLELY FROM VEGETABLE MATTER BY JACOB HOUCK and that “This justly celebrated Panacea may be taken with perfect safety by all ages and in all diseases.” There followed a list a 30 to 40 maladies for which the elixir would provide not just symptomatic relief but an actual cure. Minor discomforts included heart burn, colds, dyspepsia and loss of appetite. Without modesty or uncertainty the list enumerated various life-threatening conditions such as consumption, cholera, whooping cough, influenza, palsy, mercurial and venereal diseases.

In 1833 Houck sought a patent for his elixir. The application caught the eye of a writer for the Journal of the Franklin Institute of the State of Pennsylvania. The Franklin Institute in 1833 (and today) was “devoted to the mechanical arts, general science the recording of American and other patented inventions.” After he reviewed the legion of maladies for which the Panacea could provide a cure the writer, with tongue in cheek, bemoaned the absence of Intemperance. When the recipe for the Panacea was examined the reason for the omission appeared. The Panacea required only 5 ingredients. Here they are, in proper proportions:

25 gallons, rye whiskey!
25 lbs. gum guaiac. (A resin obtained from the guaiacum tree, used in varnishes and as a preservative.)
150 lbs. sugar.
1 lb. oil of juniper.
5 oz. oil of lemon.

Are you reminded of Donizetti’s opera, L'elisir d'amore (The Elixir of Love)? Granted, rye whiskey carries a greater wallop than cheap Bordeaux wine. Must we not agree that both, as Jacob Houck assured us, constitute “vegetable matter?”

The six lots that follow are from my personal collection. A date set of bust halves bearing the Houck’s countermark was begun years ago by my friend and client, Charlton E. Meyer, Jr. I purchased it from Gloria Meyer in 2007 and have been able to improve and add to the collection. In terms of quality and completeness I believe it to be the finest set in existence. Stewart P. Witham was also an avid collector of Houck’s pieces. His set, or at least the best pieces, went to Q. David Bowers many years ago. QDB has periodically sold some of the Witham coins, including a small batch this year.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

lkeigwin

@afford said:
I will contact Sheridan Downey, after all these bust halves are all my mentor's Henry Hilgard's wonderful collection.
Thanks

Even better. You must know that Henry and Sheridan had a longtime friendship that went well beyond numismatics.
Lance.

Regulated

@Zoins said:

@Regulated said:
I have the Spiller now and a WW Light - I love counterstamped Bust Dollars, but never seem to be able to give them up...

Incidentally, the Spiller who counterstamped that Dollar was murdered.

Thanks for the info. The story is actually very interesting. Here's some more info with some excerpts.

Spiller was killed by an unsuccessful suitor for his daughter Catherine Markham Spiller. Marrying off your daughter was a life threatening activity back then.

His killer, James Austin Graham was found "not guilty by reason of temporary insanity" and committed permanently to the state insane asylum. Why should someone be committed permanently for a temporary condition?

A GUIDE TO THE SPILLER-BROWN FAMILY LETTERS, 1854-1859

http://ead.lib.virginia.edu/vivaxtf/view?docId=wcc/viwyc00132.xml

BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION

William Hickman Spiller, son of Hickman Spiller and Catherine M. Smith Spiller, was born on 8 October 1800. He married Susanna Crockett in Wythe County on 22 December 1831. A successful merchant, Spiller amassed great wealth through his real estate transactions and his various general merchandise stores (Auman and Spiller, Henderliter and Spiller, Bosse and Spiller); at his death in 1855 his estate was worth over $29,000 and included 49 slaves.
[...]
James Austin Graham, angered over an unsuccessful wooing of Catherine Spiller, shot William Hickman Spiller on 31 March 1855 at the Boyd Hotel in Wytheville, Virginia. Spiller was in the bar room with Connally F. Trigg, William Terry, Charles Crockett, Oscar Cox, and Mr. Taliaferro. Graham shot Trigg, who was wounded, before shooting Spiller, who died later in the office of Dr. Ewing. Spiller is buried in St. John's Lutheran Church Cemetery in Wytheville, Virginia.
[...]
Letter. Jane S. Brown, Wytheville, Virginia to Alexander Brown Stuart. 2 April 1855.
2 p.
She writes about the murder of William Hickman Spiller by James Austin Graham, telling him that a large posse of men are tracking Graham who is still at large and that the wedding of Catherine Markham Spiller is postponed. "It made me think of your escape with renewed thankfulness and the situation in which you were placed went far to reconcile me to your departure that you may be happy in your new home."

Here's some more on the fate of James Austin Graham, the killer. The book looks very interesting and I may have to pick up a copy.

Soldier of Southwestern Virginia: The Civil War Letters of Captain John Preston Sheffey

In 1855 James Austin Graham, a member of an affluent Wythe County family, shot and killed William Spiller in a local hotel. Graham had sought in vain to marry one of the Spiller daughters and blamed the father for his failure. James White Sheffey was prosecuting attorney in th eensuing trial. For the first time in Virginia jurisprudence, the defendant was adjudged "not guilty by reason of temporary insanity." Graham was committed permanently to the state insane asylum.

I spent an hour poring over all of that information when I found it after buying the coin. It seems like something out of a novel.

Treashunt

Please PM me.

CyStater

Sounds like an awesome collection. Keep us informed if they go to auction somewhere.

PerryHall

The OP asked about selling raw counterstamped half dollars that he didn't want to slab. I asked several posts ago if eBay with good pics would be a viable option to sell raw counterstamped coins and no one has responded. Well, would it?

GoBust

Sheridan Downey is superb. Very honest and straight forward. I have been a customer for 20+ years. He knows these early halves backwards and forwards. Just call him and I'm sure he would be glad to speak with you. He will be at the Baltimore show this week. Cool coins good luck with them.

lkeigwin

@PerryHall said:
The OP asked about selling raw counterstamped half dollars that he didn't want to slab. I asked several posts ago if eBay with good pics would be a viable option to sell raw counterstamped coins and no one has responded. Well, would it?

I'm not sure, Perry. They're not widely collected but those who enjoy them are very focused. Kinda like contemporary counterfeits collectors.

eBay will get you broad exposure, and you may get lucky. But I think putting them in the hands of a dealer who specializes in them (and who knows how to reach the interested collectors) would be simpler, assuming expedience matters.

True, a dealer won't pay retail. But that might be offset by the lack of eBay and PayPal fees. And a dealer who knows the market may be more interested in the whole lot at a fair price.
Lance.

1630Boston

I have no idea but I did find this site last week trying to identify a counter stamp.
Again, I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS SITE, but it says that they are 'buying'.

http://www.exonumia.com/art/cma.htm
Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins
Advertising on the World's Smallest Billboards
By Gregory G. Brunk

new BRUNK Countermarked Coins book cover

This important massive reference covers all known counterstamped coins issued by merchants of the United States, Canada, Mexico and the WORLD. This does not cover governmental marks. Front cover shown above. This is the MOST RECENT Edition

** Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins
Advertising on the World's Smallest Billboards
By Gregory G. Brunk

new BRUNK Countermarked Coins book cover

**But it also says that you need to send them the coins to get an offer, I do not think that I would do that JMO.
**

PerryHall

@lkeigwin said:

@PerryHall said:
The OP asked about selling raw counterstamped half dollars that he didn't want to slab. I asked several posts ago if eBay with good pics would be a viable option to sell raw counterstamped coins and no one has responded. Well, would it?

I'm not sure, Perry. They're not widely collected but those who enjoy them are very focused. Kinda like contemporary counterfeits collectors.

eBay will get you broad exposure, and you may get lucky. But I think putting them in the hands of a dealer who specializes in them (and who knows how to reach the interested collectors) would be simpler, assuming expedience matters.

True, a dealer won't pay retail. But that might be offset by the lack of eBay and PayPal fees. And a dealer who knows the market may be more interested in the whole lot at a fair price.
Lance.

I can't think of a venue (auction or otherwise) that has more eyes than eBay.

carabonnair

@1630Boston said:
I have no idea but I did find this site last week trying to identify a counter stamp.
Again, I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS SITE, but it says that they are 'buying'.

http://www.exonumia.com/art/cma.htm
Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins
Advertising on the World's Smallest Billboards
By Gregory G. Brunk

new BRUNK Countermarked Coins book cover

This important massive reference covers all known counterstamped coins issued by merchants of the United States, Canada, Mexico and the WORLD. This does not cover governmental marks. Front cover shown above. This is the MOST RECENT Edition

** Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins
Advertising on the World's Smallest Billboards
By Gregory G. Brunk

new BRUNK Countermarked Coins book cover

**But it also says that you need to send them the coins to get an offer, I do not think that I would do that JMO.
**

I would be interested to know the status of this site, because, sadly, Rich Hartzog passed away recently.
Edited to add link https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2017/12/exonumia-dealer-rich-hartzog-dead-at-70.all.html

1630Boston

Sorry, I did not know that.