If you are to start a gold collection; would you prefer Liberty Double Eagles vs Saint Gaudens?

Paradisefound

It is easier to collect the Saint Gaudens at reasonable price than the Liberty Double Eagles; of course the older minted years command much higher premium. Would you rather have a just few of Liberty Double Eagle rather than the more affordable Saint Gaudens?
I've collected the better dates of Saint Gaudens : 1907, 1908 w/m; 1909/08 overdate
but yet to acquire my 1st Liberty Double Eagle...

Timbuk3

I prefer St. Gaudens, but that's just MHO !!!

BLUEJAYWAY

The Saint's.

Justacommeman

If it’s a gold collection why not both?

m

jmlanzaf

You are assuming that I need to collect by date/mm. If it is a type collection, I simply buy one outstanding example of each.

jdimmick

I agree, buy one nice of each

Paradisefound

I am trying to collect a set overtime until I retire.

Paradisefound

@Justacommeman said:

BTW I enjoyed your LV story

PerryHall

Why limit yourself? Buy some of both types and enjoy the variety. Pick up a few of the other denominations too. The important thing is to have fun and enjoy your collection.

Justacommeman

I agree with Perry. I’m enjoying the heck of putting together a 12 piece gold type set. Love mixing in branch mints, rarities, shipwreck coins, first year issues etc......

mark

Paradisefound

@Justacommeman said:

so just decide on the year and go from there?

Justacommeman

I'd start with a plan of buying my favorite coin first and go from there. That way no matter what you have something you love. I started with a 1857-S shipwreck $20 piece in PCGS 65 CAC. Still love it as much as the day I bought it, the possibilities are endless. Doug Winters has written a few good articles along these lines for type sets

Collect what you like to look at

mark

logger7

For eye appeal I would go with the best Unc. coins and nice type examples, possibly look for slightly better dates than the 04 or 1924 etc.. With premiums way down you should be able to get an example of each, preferably certified at slight premium to melt.

jmlanzaf

@Justacommeman said:
I'd start with a plan of buying my favorite coin first and go from there. That way no matter what you have something you love. I started with a 1857-S shipwreck $20 piece in PCGS 65 CAC. Still love it as much as the day I bought it, the possibilities are endless. Doug Winters has written a few good articles along these lines for type sets

Collect what you like to look at

mark

This!

Yorkshireman

Liberties for the history. SG’s for the art.

jmlanzaf

@logger7 said:
For eye appeal I would go with the best Unc. coins and nice type examples, possibly look for slightly better dates than the 04 or 1924 etc.. With premiums way down you should be able to get an example of each, preferably certified at slight premium to melt.

And this!

As a part-time coin dealer, I should encourage date/mm collections. After all, who am I going to sell 16-D dimes in AG and VG S-VDB cents if not for the album fillers. And, if you want to fill albums, knock yourself out. It creates much more coin demand than would otherwise exist.

However, the collector in me recognizes that most of us have limited means. All Saints (with the HR exceptions) look the same. So why not own a 1924 in 67 (around $10k) rather than own ten MS-63 Saints that all look the same and are pretty marky with minimal luster? You then add a $20 lib (III) in MS-66 for about $5k, a $20 lib (II) in 63 for about $10k and a Type 1 $20 lib in MS-65 for about $10k. You've then got all types represented for a total of about $35k which is about the cost of 20-25 crappy examples of common dates in the series.

If you try to collect by date/mm a horrible VF 1866-S will cost you close to $10k, and a VF 71-CC will cost you around $20k. So those 2 crappy looking coins will cost you as much as the gorgeous type set above. And you'll have to find a 70-CC that's bent with a hole in it for $30k to fill that particular album hole.

coinnut

I agree with Perry. I like both designs and collect them both.

logger7

Another strategy with the current low premiums is to get nice 63/64 Saints/Libs. at wholesale, do your research on ebay, shows, etc.. Look for cac worthy or already stickered coins. Semi-numismatics are super safe in the current market moneywise. On $20 Libs. I would go for flashy original coins, s Mints; on Saints slightly better dates or very attractive, some come very nice like 1927.

jonruns

@Justacommeman said:
I'd start with a plan of buying my favorite coin first and go from there. That way no matter what you have something you love. I started with a 1857-S shipwreck $20 piece in PCGS 65 CAC. Still love it as much as the day I bought it, the possibilities are endless. Doug Winters has written a few good articles along these lines for type sets

Collect what you like to look at

mark

+2

BillJones

I can't see any reason why you shouldn't own a few $20 Liberty coins. They are historic and interesting pieces. As for a date and mint set of either the Liberty or St. Gaudens coins, that would be virtually impossible unless you are a millionaire many times over with a lot patience. There are simply too many mega buck “stopper coins” that barely ever appear in auction, let alone coming up with the money to pay for them.

Condition is another issue. Some people here say you should own one coin in MS-67 at a very high price. I disagree. Unless you are bound and determined to be #1 on some registry list, I think that it’s a lot more fun to have a number of nice coins instead one mega buck super coin. You should also remember that selling lesser priced coins one at a time is a lot easier that selling one big coin for a lot of money. You can’t divide an expensive coin into pieces unless you find a group of people who want to buy it.

Another factor is the difference between an MS-66 and an MS-67. Many collectors can’t tell the difference, and in some instances, there is no difference. That’s why the Gray Sheet spread for MS-67 St. Gaudens’ type coins is $8,500 for non CAC and $21,000 for a CAC approved coin. Before you toss down $10 k for an MS-67 graded coin, you need to make darn sure that it is an MS-67.

Remember when you purchase $20 gold coins in MS-63 and 64, you buying into to two markets. There is a collector market, and there is a bullion market. Each $20 gold piece contains almost an ounce of gold. When gold goes up you make money; when it goes down, of you don’t do as well, of course. Still if you think that bullion is going to go up in value in the coming years, nice properly graded MS-63 and especially MS-64 graded coins are a way to participate in both markets. To me MS-64 is a sweet spot. The coins are attractive when properly graded, and yet the prices are not extreme for the more common dates.

As a type collector, I have all six of the double eagle designs. There are the Types I, II and III for the $20 Liberty coins, and there is the High Relief, No Motto and with Motto pieces for the St. Gaudens series. It’s a sleeper in the series, but once you get into to collecting them, the Type II Liberty $20 gold is the toughest in Choice to Gem Mint State. That coin is hard to find MS-63 and moves up virtually impossible in MS-65 and above. Why? None of them have been recovered in pristine condition from shipwreck salvage operations. Still there are a lot of Type II $20 Liberty coins in AU-58 that are quite nice and very inexpensive relative to melt. Here is one.

topstuf

Either is a smart move. 20s will accumulate more gold at less premium than the other golds.
Me, I like Libs better but saints are easier and in huge supply.

TwoSides2aCoin

I like $20 gold. Can’t have one or the other. I’m weak. Forgive me.

BryceM

I’d just collect 27-D Saints.

JK. I’m doing a 12-piece set and slowly expanding that to include the major varieties. Eventually, maybe it will include early gold. We’ll see. Gold is just SO COOL!

Walkerfan

If I just had to choose one; it would be Saints. I really love that design.

johnny9434

Both

logger7

@BillJones said:
I can't see any reason why you shouldn't own a few $20 Liberty coins. They are historic and interesting pieces. As for a date and mint set of either the Liberty or St. Gaudens coins, that would be virtually impossible unless you are a millionaire many times over with a lot patience. There are simply too many mega buck “stopper coins” that barely ever appear in auction, let alone coming up with the money to pay for them.

Condition is another issue. Some people here say you should own one coin in MS-67 at a very high price. I disagree. Unless you are bound and determined to be #1 on some registry list, I think that it’s a lot more fun to have a number of nice coins instead one mega buck super coin. You should also remember that selling lesser priced coins one at a time is a lot easier that selling one big coin for a lot of money. You can’t divide an expensive coin into pieces unless you find a group of people who want to buy it.

Another factor is the difference between an MS-66 and an MS-67. Many collectors can’t tell the difference, and in some instances, there is no difference. That’s why the Gray Sheet spread for MS-67 St. Gaudens’ type coins is $8,500 for non CAC and $21,000 for a CAC approved coin. Before you toss down $10 k for an MS-67 graded coin, you need to make darn sure that it is an MS-67.

Remember when you purchase $20 gold coins in MS-63 and 64, you buying into to two markets. There is a collector market, and there is a bullion market. Each $20 gold piece contains almost an ounce of gold. When gold goes up you make money; when it goes down, of you don’t do as well, of course. Still if you think that bullion is going to go up in value in the coming years, nice properly graded MS-63 and especially MS-64 graded coins are a way to participate in both markets. To me MS-64 is a sweet spot. The coins are attractive when properly graded, and yet the prices are not extreme for the more common dates.

As a type collector, I have all six of the double eagle designs. There are the Types I, II and III for the $20 Liberty coins, and there is the High Relief, No Motto and with Motto pieces for the St. Gaudens series. It’s a sleeper in the series, but once you get into to collecting them, the Type II Liberty $20 gold is the toughest in Choice to Gem Mint State. That coin is hard to find MS-63 and moves up virtually impossible in MS-65 and above. Why? None of them have been recovered in pristine condition from shipwreck salvage operations. Still there are a lot of Type II $20 Liberty coins in AU-58 that are quite nice and very inexpensive relative to melt. Here is one.

I prefer the type II $20s and agree that you can find nice ones. I was bidding last night but did not win this one from our friend Centsles: I was thinking probably 61, but who knows with those pics: https://tinyurl.com/yawypq8h

BillJones

This is an MS-63 from my type set. Some people don't like this one for the grade, but it does have the frosty look. When I bought this one at auction, there was a CAC approved one in the same sale, and I thought that this was a little nicer.

BustDMs

I like the Saints better but would supplement it with a mint mark set of the Libs.

LindeDad

Got the 12 piece type gold working on the others in the type set slowly.
Just got my first "No Motto" Half Eagle Lib. in this week.
AU58's seem to be the closest to bullion so that what I'm doing.

ricko

I really like the big gold coins... I have both, but prefer the artistry of the Saints. It is indeed an expensive collection, however, if I were to recommend one, it would be the high relief Saint for beauty as well as liquidity. Now, if you are stacking bullion, then get what you can, cheap. Cheers, RickO

metalmeister

Do both! Double Eagles are the crown jewel of numismatics.

jmlanzaf

@ricko said:
I really like the big gold coins... I have both, but prefer the artistry of the Saints. It is indeed an expensive collection, however, if I were to recommend one, it would be the high relief Saint for beauty as well as liquidity. Now, if you are stacking bullion, then get what you can, cheap. Cheers, RickO

Yeah, those high relief Saints won't stack properly...design flaw.

divecchia

I like both, but the Saint Gaudens is my favorite coin.

Donato

ricko

@jmlanzaf.... Stacking High Relief Saints is not a problem many people have encountered... I wish I had that problem...Cheers, RickO

steveben

lots of good suggestions here...i would get at least one of each type of $20 lib.

my favs are type 1

BAJJERFAN

@Justacommeman said:
If it’s a gold collection why not both?

m

A Saint obverse with a Lib reverse would be the cat's meow.

Hydrant

Both!

blu62vette

I would go with Libs, I like the design more. I would think I am in the minority.

BustDMs

@ricko said:
@jmlanzaf.... Stacking High Relief Saints is not a problem many people have encountered... I wish I had that problem...Cheers, RickO

No problem, if they are slabbed!

I think the world record is 66

mvs7

There are so many ways to collect classic U.S. gold - full date/MM, by date, by type, by series, by mint or other subset, box of 20, shipwreck-only, etc. If you are completely new to gold collecting, rather that restrict yourself initially to a binary choice between major double eagle types, I'd start with a type set or even just any one coin that is interesting to you, and let those initial purchases influence your collecting direction.

Outside of a few raw-at-the-time small gold type coins when I was younger, my first major gold purchase was an SS Central America 1857-S $20 in PCGS 64/CAC. I decided I liked the gold rush/San Francisco element the most and proceeded to put together an S-mint type set (11 coins -- the traditional "12 coin" gold set minus the Indian $2.50), then on to nearly complete S-mint date runs of the smaller denominations.

The point is, everyone's journey will be different - collect what catches your eye and have fun!

Paradisefound

@jmlanzaf said:

@ricko said:
I really like the big gold coins... I have both, but prefer the artistry of the Saints. It is indeed an expensive collection, however, if I were to recommend one, it would be the high relief Saint for beauty as well as liquidity. Now, if you are stacking bullion, then get what you can, cheap. Cheers, RickO

Yeah, those high relief Saints won't stack properly...design flaw.

I'd be lucky if stacking is the problem
Centless had a few raws listed awhile ago but I was too nervous for that kind of expensive raw so my low bids (<$4000) were expectedly buried so deep.....

ricko

@Paradisefound ....yep... they do not come cheap.... but they sure are purty......Cheers, RickO

3stars

Saints are the Morgan Dollars of the gold coin world.

Swampboy

Saints would be my choice.
The gold collection I'm working on is one of each denomination.
I still need a Saint, a $3 and a $4 (as if )

Paradisefound

@BillJones said:

May I have your opinion on this offered to me at $1575?

BillJones

I would not purchase that piece because it is way over priced. It is no better than an AU, and it has a small rim bump above the "U" in "UNITED" on the reverse. The Gray Sheet bid $1,285 to $1,300 from VF-20 to AU-58. There is no spread. The asking price is higher than the Gray Sheet bid for an MS-62 piece.

I'd advise you to buy a certified coin. They are much easier to sell when the time comes. This coin is not worth certifiying because it is worth little more than bullion in the present market in that grade.

dpoole

I like the Libertys.

I dunno. Maybe I've gotten too used to the St. G design, what with all the bullion AGEs.

asheland

I'm partial to the Liberty type, but one of each shouldn't be too bad.

mustangmanbob

I bought 1 of each, MS64, PCGS, both 1907, as it was a transition year.

I thought it was neat that they had the same dates, and IIRC, they were $350 each off ebay, but that was a while ago.

tommy44

I like the both. If I were starting today I'd shoot for one of each major type, Type I Liberty, Type II Liberty, Type III Liberty, roman numeral high relief Saint, no motto Saint, with motto Saint. Forget the high relief for now if you are on a limited budget.

As stated above, I'd pass on the 1884-S, I think you can do much better than that.

hchcoin

Cool thread with great suggestions. I like the both and also like @mustangmanbob 's idea.