I've stated many times that I do not like share buybacks as I don't think they increase shareholder value or share prices. You can read from that that I don't believe buybacks have boosted the stock market.
A great deal of the debt issuance has been by the big tech companies such as Apple and Microsoft. There is little chance those companies will be standing at any bread line.
@cohodk said:
I've stated many times that I do not like share buybacks as I don't think they increase shareholder value or share prices. You can read from that that I don't believe buybacks have boosted the stock market.
A great deal of the debt issuance has been by the big tech companies such as Apple and Microsoft. There is little chance those companies will be standing at any bread line.
Apple has repurchased $220 billion of its own stock since March 2012. By reducing the number of shares on the market, buybacks lift a company’s earnings per share, adding to increased demand for the stock by investors.
Apple, Microsoft and Google are sitting on $464 billion in cash. Like most of corporate American they took advantage of low interest rates to fund buybacks and stockholder rewards. Unlike most of corporate American they can afford the debt.
GE, on the other hand has debt that is 3.17 times its equity. There is good debt and there is bad debt, even in corporate America. And yes, companies that are deemed to big to fail will form the next bread line. GE alone employs over 300,000 people. What's the unemployment rate gonna look like when GE and other over indebted large companies start cutting costs (jobs)?
@derryb said:
There is good debt and there is bad debt, even in corporate America. And yes, companies that are deemed to big to fail will form the next bread line. GE alone employs over 300,000 people. What's the unemployment rate gonna look like when GE and other over indebted large companies start cutting costs (jobs)?
"the ongoing rout in the corporate loans has now forced many of Wall Street’s largest banks to be stuck with at least $1.6 billion of unwanted leveraged buyout debt which they are unable to sell to investors in what is increasingly shaping up as a bidless market."
Looks like "investors" did learn something following their pre-2008 rush to purchase bank bundled mortgage securities. Shame me once. . .
Question now is "will the over-indebted corporations fail all alone, or will they take their debt holding bank with them?"
@jmski52 said:
In a healthy economy, there needs to be consequences for poor management, and bailouts aren't the answer.
In a healthy properly regulated economy, there needs to be consequences for poor management, and bailouts aren't the answer.
Bailouts are the only answer to save an economy that is completely dependent on a banking system that is poorly regulated. Bank management works just fine, for the bankers. Contrary to popular belief the three architects of the last crisis bailout had no choice but to bail out Wall St. if they were going to save Main St. For that they are most likely unsung heroes. The problem is that, because of the role of the banking system in our economy, it was really the only immediate fix available. Once that immediate problem was resolved, there was no meaningful action taken to correct the root cause. The economy's dependency on a poorly (by design) regulated banking system will once again demand further bailouts and further QE. Until legislators become divorced from Wall St., regulations and regulators are but curtains on the wall. Repeal of the Glass/Stegall Act that was put into place to prevent banks from becoming too big to fail is a perfect example of the power of the lobbyist.
So, with the markets all jittery last week the Munchicin tweets over the weekend that he called the six largest banks and all is well. He then tweets not to worry and that he will have the Plunge Protection Team meet today. My guess is their first order of business will be to close Munchie's Twitter account. Their second order of business will be to direct JPM to hit the gold price. Munchie's days as Sec. of the Treasury may be numbered.
I think their first order of business will be to hit "Ctrl PRT" and to create a new account in the Homeland Defense accounting budget with another $21 trillion on the way. But don't worry, we'll never "see" it.
A healthy economy has its corrections, and when Ron Paul speaks about malinvestments, he is talking about the mis-spent money that is exemplified by the recently discovered $21 trillion. A healthy economy is self-correcting and eventually repairs itself, after the washout.
The question is, which way will be chosen, this time around? The corrupt banks (and the Fed) need to be broken up, just like when AT&T was broken up. Central control by a few elitists is never in the interest of the country or the people in it.
Repealing Graham, Leach, Bliley is one first step in re-implementing a free market in banking. Breaking up the banking cartel is a second step. There are plenty of 2nd-tier banks and credit unions that would love to compete on a level playing field. TBTF is an illusion.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Earlier this month, the International Monetary Fund reported that the total world debt load is an incredible $184 trillion. That’s 225% of the entire world’s GDP and nearly double what it was in 2007 at the eve of the last financial crisis. Of course The Banker will tell you its all under control.
their next conference call should be very interesting. If true, continued buybacks would be one thing to add to the look out list. I'm also wondering how the whole "smart phone supplier issues" will play out on their bottom line.
You and your "classic finance". It's more like clueless finance. Like how you've been saying for the last 2 years that higher rates would destroy the economy and stock market. I vehemently disagreed, and well, looks like I was right.
Your PMs will again have their day in the sun, no doubt, but you guys need to crawl out of you holes and enjoy the sun shining all around you.
A little over a year later and it looks like the financial system couldn't tolerate slightly higher rates, not even for a fairly short period of time.
Why isn't there enough liquidity? Rates are "too high" when the debt burden can't be serviced at those rates. They have to create more debt, just to provide enough liquidity to service the existing debt.
Problem is, this injection of liquidity isn't temporary and it's increasing. Let's just call it QE, because that's what it is. More imaginary free money for the banking system.
What a mess. They know there's a problem. Don't delude yourselves.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
You and your "classic finance". It's more like clueless finance. Like how you've been saying for the last 2 years that higher rates would destroy the economy and stock market. I vehemently disagreed, and well, looks like I was right.
Your PMs will again have their day in the sun, no doubt, but you guys need to crawl out of you holes and enjoy the sun shining all around you.
A little over a year later and it looks like the financial system couldn't tolerate slightly higher rates, not even for a fairly short period of time.
Looks like you were wrong, actually.
This "problem" that you perceive happened when rates dropped to near record lows, not when they were higher. So, it actually looks like you are wrong.
Stock market at all time high. Banks with record profits. Unemployment at 50 year lows. Inflation almost nonexistant. Yeah,financial system cant handle it. Lol.
And...while rates rose from the lows in 2016 the stock market rallied 50%.
@jmski52 said:
Why isn't there enough liquidity? Rates are "too high" when the debt burden can't be serviced at those rates. They have to create more debt, just to provide enough liquidity to service the existing debt.
Problem is, this injection of liquidity isn't temporary and it's increasing. Let's just call it QE, because that's what it is. More imaginary free money for the banking system.
What a mess. They know there's a problem. Don't delude yourselves.
Stock market at all time high. Banks with record profits. Unemployment at 50 year lows. Inflation almost nonexistant. Yeah,financial system cant handle it. Lol.
And...while rates rose from the lows in 2016 the stock market rallied 50%.
"The shutdown at the West Point Mint is coming during a time of severe market disconnects between the paper gold & silver markets and the phsyical gold & silver markets. The Mint shutdown also comes during a time of emerging physical gold & silver supply shortages, which first began at the retail level and has since developed in the futures markets."
Seemed like a good plan; borrow cheap money. Instead of wisely investing in the business in the form of Property Plant and Equipment, why not invest it in executive bonuses via stock buybacks.
"Then there is General Electric. Between 2015 and 2017, GE repurchased $40 billion of shares at prices between $20 and $32—its share price sits around $6 today. The company has destroyed about $30 billion of shareholders’ money. It lost more on its share repurchase programs during those three years than it made in operations—and by a substantial margin. But GE is just one of several hundred big companies who have thrown good money away on bad share buybacks."
What goes up. . .
"they boosted both their companies share price and, consequently, their own compensation, by simply buying back shares of their own stock. This is a short-term positive for shareholders because it bids up the stock price in the market; just as it also reduces the shares outstanding. This process boosts the EPS calculation and increases cash flows as fewer dividends are paid to outside shareholders. As an added bonus, it also provides for a nice tax write-off."
Must come down. . .
"These companies will now have to raise capital to strengthen their balance sheets just as interest rates are rising and the recession of 2019 unfolds. Then, these same companies who bought back their shares at the highs will soon have to pull those same shares out of retirement and sell them back to the public at much lower prices. Thus, diluting the shares outstanding and lowering EPS counts yet again…Wall Street never learns."
How much of Wall Street's gains are a result of these massive stock buybacks? Guess we're about to find out as the buybacks come to an end. A very large portion of the coming stock market decline is a direct result of an end to stock buy backs.
The canary in the coal mine is the greedy short term thinking of share holders (house flippers?) who didn't question why their share value was increasing and corporate executives (mortgage companies?) who failed to realize that what goes up can come down. We've seen this movie before. This time look for major corporations as well as those who loaned them money to show up at the taxpayer bailout bread line. You can bet the printing presses are primed and ready.
You were warned. Hopefully you positioned yourself accordingly. Congrats to those who took notice and weren't out fishing.
Comments
I've stated many times that I do not like share buybacks as I don't think they increase shareholder value or share prices. You can read from that that I don't believe buybacks have boosted the stock market.
A great deal of the debt issuance has been by the big tech companies such as Apple and Microsoft. There is little chance those companies will be standing at any bread line.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Apple has repurchased $220 billion of its own stock since March 2012. By reducing the number of shares on the market, buybacks lift a company’s earnings per share, adding to increased demand for the stock by investors.
Apple, Microsoft and Google are sitting on $464 billion in cash. Like most of corporate American they took advantage of low interest rates to fund buybacks and stockholder rewards. Unlike most of corporate American they can afford the debt.
GE, on the other hand has debt that is 3.17 times its equity. There is good debt and there is bad debt, even in corporate America. And yes, companies that are deemed to big to fail will form the next bread line. GE alone employs over 300,000 people. What's the unemployment rate gonna look like when GE and other over indebted large companies start cutting costs (jobs)?
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
When do they start handing out bread?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You're a banker, you'll be first to know. Word on the street is, after the last give away, all that they have left is crumbs.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Oh ok. Thanks for the thoughtful answer.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
And the bad corporate debt begins to surface
"the ongoing rout in the corporate loans has now forced many of Wall Street’s largest banks to be stuck with at least $1.6 billion of unwanted leveraged buyout debt which they are unable to sell to investors in what is increasingly shaping up as a bidless market."
Looks like "investors" did learn something following their pre-2008 rush to purchase bank bundled mortgage securities. Shame me once. . .
Question now is "will the over-indebted corporations fail all alone, or will they take their debt holding bank with them?"
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
In a healthy economy, there needs to be consequences for poor management, and bailouts aren't the answer.
I knew it would happen.
In a healthy properly regulated economy, there needs to be consequences for poor management, and bailouts aren't the answer.
Bailouts are the only answer to save an economy that is completely dependent on a banking system that is poorly regulated. Bank management works just fine, for the bankers. Contrary to popular belief the three architects of the last crisis bailout had no choice but to bail out Wall St. if they were going to save Main St. For that they are most likely unsung heroes. The problem is that, because of the role of the banking system in our economy, it was really the only immediate fix available. Once that immediate problem was resolved, there was no meaningful action taken to correct the root cause. The economy's dependency on a poorly (by design) regulated banking system will once again demand further bailouts and further QE. Until legislators become divorced from Wall St., regulations and regulators are but curtains on the wall. Repeal of the Glass/Stegall Act that was put into place to prevent banks from becoming too big to fail is a perfect example of the power of the lobbyist.
So, with the markets all jittery last week the Munchicin tweets over the weekend that he called the six largest banks and all is well. He then tweets not to worry and that he will have the Plunge Protection Team meet today. My guess is their first order of business will be to close Munchie's Twitter account. Their second order of business will be to direct JPM to hit the gold price. Munchie's days as Sec. of the Treasury may be numbered.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
I think their first order of business will be to hit "Ctrl PRT" and to create a new account in the Homeland Defense accounting budget with another $21 trillion on the way. But don't worry, we'll never "see" it.
A healthy economy has its corrections, and when Ron Paul speaks about malinvestments, he is talking about the mis-spent money that is exemplified by the recently discovered $21 trillion. A healthy economy is self-correcting and eventually repairs itself, after the washout.
The question is, which way will be chosen, this time around? The corrupt banks (and the Fed) need to be broken up, just like when AT&T was broken up. Central control by a few elitists is never in the interest of the country or the people in it.
Repealing Graham, Leach, Bliley is one first step in re-implementing a free market in banking. Breaking up the banking cartel is a second step. There are plenty of 2nd-tier banks and credit unions that would love to compete on a level playing field. TBTF is an illusion.
I knew it would happen.
Earlier this month, the International Monetary Fund reported that the total world debt load is an incredible $184 trillion. That’s 225% of the entire world’s GDP and nearly double what it was in 2007 at the eve of the last financial crisis. Of course The Banker will tell you its all under control.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Fish-on!
You're showing us you are fishing while Rome is burning?
You may need a bail out?
You aren't trolling at the moment?
You're subsisting on fish until gold hits $5,000?
I'm confused.
Will the year change on this thread or will we argue on. A new thread ?
A new thread will commence Tuesday hence.
Apple Lost $11 Billion Buying Back Its Own Stock In 2018
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Bank Holiday
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
their next conference call should be very interesting. If true, continued buybacks would be one thing to add to the look out list. I'm also wondering how the whole "smart phone supplier issues" will play out on their bottom line.
2019's first underfunded pension bailout. Sign of things to come?
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
A little over a year later and it looks like the financial system couldn't tolerate slightly higher rates, not even for a fairly short period of time.
Looks like you were wrong, actually.
Why isn't there enough liquidity? Rates are "too high" when the debt burden can't be serviced at those rates. They have to create more debt, just to provide enough liquidity to service the existing debt.
Problem is, this injection of liquidity isn't temporary and it's increasing. Let's just call it QE, because that's what it is. More imaginary free money for the banking system.
What a mess. They know there's a problem. Don't delude yourselves.
I knew it would happen.
This "problem" that you perceive happened when rates dropped to near record lows, not when they were higher. So, it actually looks like you are wrong.
Stock market at all time high. Banks with record profits. Unemployment at 50 year lows. Inflation almost nonexistant. Yeah,financial system cant handle it. Lol.
And...while rates rose from the lows in 2016 the stock market rallied 50%.
Yeah..i was wrong. Lol
LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Climbing a wall of worry.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Climbing a wall of worry.
Hey man, it's your punchbowl. Have at it. I will refrain, but thanks anyway.
I knew it would happen.
Well that didn't last long. LOL
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Zing!
I knew it would happen.
Yup...they should have kept rates higher.
BTW---when is silver gonna hit new highs?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I guess there's no more "wall of worry". What is it now? A wall of joy?
I knew it would happen.
Opportunity for those who have vision beyond tomorrow.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
US Mint Employee Tests Positive At West Point Mint, Causing Temporary Shutdown
"The shutdown at the West Point Mint is coming during a time of severe market disconnects between the paper gold & silver markets and the phsyical gold & silver markets. The Mint shutdown also comes during a time of emerging physical gold & silver supply shortages, which first began at the retail level and has since developed in the futures markets."
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Wall St. Journal release: Coronavirus Sparks a Global Gold Rush
What's going on behind the scenes with available gold supply.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
You were warned. Hopefully you positioned yourself accordingly. Congrats to those who took notice and weren't out fishing.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt