2017's Clark ATB - New key?

17AN
2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - G R CLARK
14,787
01/15/2018

As of 1/15/18 there were 14,787 sold and "unavailable" since Friday.

2012's Acadia and Hawaii Volcanoes were lowest with 14,978 and 14,863 respectively.
(eBay tells me that those two sell for $500-$700.)

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Comments

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    Bump

    Anyone care about ATBs anymore?

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭✭

    Nope. And Spouses claim the same hall of fame "too damn unattractive" notoriety.
    Just wait awhile, there will be another key.

    Waiting for the swell in PM's and surf.
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭✭

    Now if you are just discussing the flip, there is board interest in any issue, any time regardless of the poor design.

    Waiting for the swell in PM's and surf.
  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭

    @MilesWaits said:
    Nope. And Spouses claim the same hall of fame "too damn unattractive" notoriety.
    Just wait awhile, there will be another key.

    Well the spouses were on sale forever and nobody wanted them. Of course almost every succeeding issue would be the new key. Kinda lame comparison.
    Over the last couple of years the ATB pucks have a history of consistent mintage numbers and have a distinct following (obviously not here). The Clark was issued in December and crapped out in a few weeks while everyone was expecting the same boring 17-18k numbers...nope...gone in a few weeks and NOT because of apathy but because of assuming.

    I just look at the obvious....raw Clarks are selling at a 30-40% premium one month after release and they haven't been officially listed as sold out yet. The two 2012's with higher mintage are in the $600 range (raw). It's not totally design but more a numbers thing.

    I know it's not the darling of anyone here but it has definite potential and NOT as a flip but as a hold. Done....

  • rickoricko Posts: 66,384 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No doubt there is a collector niche for these, however, I am not sure the niche is large enough to establish keys. Seems there will always be some available. JMO....Cheers, RickO

  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2018 11:42AM

    I love the look of the big pucks. It’s one of the few coins I have that even non collectors look at and gape.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2018 12:08AM

    @nurmaler said:
    2012's Acadia and Hawaii Volcanoes were lowest with 14,978 and 14,863 respectively.

    Do you happen to know whether these are final audited mintage figures? There was some discussion at the time that final numbers for these two coins and Denali might come in lower after adjusting for returns and exchanges. If I recall correctly, there was often considerable lag time between the last reported sales number and the audited final totals, and the final totals were sometimes reduced by as much as several hundred coins.

    Edit - I tracked down a post of mine from Sept. 3, 2014:

    << Do we have final mintage figures yet on the 2012 P mint ATBs? I haven't seen them.... >>

    No, but my guess is that the final mintage for each coin is likely somewhere between the sales totals just after each coin has gone dark and sales totals for the previous week. (The mint often includes orders that it can't fill due to inventory depletion in the final week's sales totals, so eventually the audited mintage figures often come in lower than the sales totals for the final week.)

    If my figures are accurate, there were 673 Denalis ordered in the final week of sales, implying delivery of between 14,552 and 15,225 coins. There were 262 Acadias ordered in the final week of sales, implying delivery of between 14,716 and 14,978 coins. There were 96 Hawaiis ordered in that coin's final week of sales, implying delivery of between 14,767 and 14,863 coins.

    So it's possible that any one of these coins could be the lowest mintage for the series. We'll know for sure when the audited mintage figures are released, but that could take some time.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    @nurmaler said:
    17AN
    2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - G R CLARK
    14,787
    01/15/2018

    As of 1/15/18 there were 14,787 sold and "unavailable" since Friday.

    2012's Acadia and Hawaii Volcanoes were lowest with 14,978 and 14,863 respectively.
    (eBay tells me that those two sell for $500-$700.)

    17AN - 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - G R CLARK - 14788 - 01/22/2018

    One more (net) sale this past week.
    Still "unavailable".

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    17AN - 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - G R CLARK - 14764 - 01/29/2018

    A 24 coin DECREASE vs last week.
    Still "unavailable".

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭

    They have been in "Currently Unavailable" status since 1/20 when two were made available and sold. Sooo... no availability for 11 days and numbers decreased significantly. I would think if they were CC issues they would be available the next day... and... who would return a puck that is now the lowest mintage of the series? It would have to have some serious issues...and 24 of them?

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    17AN - 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - G R CLARK - 14759 - 02/05/2018

    Another 5 coin DECREASE vs last week.
    Still "unavailable".

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    17AN - 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - G R CLARK - 14741 - 02/12/2018

    Another 18 coin DECREASE vs last week.
    Still "unavailable".

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    17AN - 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - G R CLARK - 14739 - 02/19/2018

    Another 2 coin DECREASE vs last week.
    Still "unavailable".

  • bigolebigole Posts: 339 ✭✭✭

    So only downward adjustments for the last month? Should go to "sold out" soon.

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭

    ...and the latest edition Pic Rocks has already gone by Clark in sales numbers after only nine days

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    SOLD OUT!

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭

    Nice.....New key P puck

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
  • OnastoneOnastone Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So basically this puck was only available for about 6 weeks. Dec 5- Jan 20'th . If the max mintage was set at 25,000 why were they cut off so early? What was the final count, around 14,739?

  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭

    a lot of us mint products will have new low mintages, they just don't have the customer base anymore, just look at the us mint $5 gold comms, new low mintages every year

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭✭

    Correct about the low mintages. Yet, for the collectors of pucks this just adds another dimension as they were going to probably purchase them anywho...and for the dealers here it might give them some profit for those wanting to play the late flip game.

    Waiting for the swell in PM's and surf.
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 7,214 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you go to walmart , you can get a key made for like 2 bucks. Why pay what the mint is charging?

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭

    I will admit it took awhile for me to get that...duh!

    a lot of us mint products will have new low mintages, they just don't have the customer base anymore,

    Yup but I should add that the new Pic Rocks P puck after nine days has already gone by the Clark number

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭✭

    @BigA said:
    Nice.....New key P puck

    Not necessarily, and even if true it's not close to being a deep key. As far as I have been able to determine, final mintage figures for the 2012-P Acadia, Hawaii and Denali have not been made public, and these mintages are almost certainly lower than the final weekly sales numbers that are currently serving as a proxy for them.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Another "Lake Wobegon" issue - all the coins are "above average."

    5-ounce silver -- "the little coins that time forgot, and the decades cannot improve."

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have my first day releases kept in unopened mint sealed box. I buy 2 of each and just toss them away unopened. Boring I know but some day....

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2018 9:19AM

    @Overdate said:

    @BigA said:
    Nice.....New key P puck

    Not necessarily, and even if true it's not close to being a deep key. As far as I have been able to determine, final mintage figures for the 2012-P Acadia, Hawaii and Denali have not been made public, and these mintages are almost certainly lower than the final weekly sales numbers that are currently serving as a proxy for them.

    Well using the same premise it is then also probable that, in six or so years, the Clark numbers will "almost certainly" be lower than the present reported number....but, after looking at the same 2012 figures for many years I will just accept what I see and not assume.

  • bigolebigole Posts: 339 ✭✭✭

    There are some that think the Denali may even be lowest, as there were a ton of last minute orders and (likely) returns as well. You'd think by 2018 there should be some final official numbers. Is there a mintage uncertainty older than this one?

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 7,214 ✭✭✭✭✭

    so now there is a thing called a "deep key" :(

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭

    There is some "deep" stuff in some minds but it's not related to the puck numbers. They are what they presently are.

  • jrt103jrt103 Posts: 295 ✭✭

    @nurmaler said:
    Bump

    Anyone care about ATBs anymore?

    I was going to start a new thread asking the same question... I have some of the 2014 and 2015 issues in OGP that I am looking to sell... do they have any value above spot priceat all?

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭✭

    @BigA said:
    Well using the same premise it is then also probable that, in six or so years, the Clark numbers will "almost certainly" be lower than the present reported number....but, after looking at the same 2012 figures for many years I will just accept what I see and not assume.

    In response to a query by me, the Mint said "Unfortunately, the Production & Sales Figures for the Cumulative Sales Figures will not have the information you are looking for on our website. When a product is no longer available, the sales figure is the Last Known Sale (LKS), which is the last sales figure published for that product when removed from sale." These Last Known Sales numbers are currently the commonly accepted mintage numbers for the 2012-P ATB 5 oz. silver quarters.

    But in 2012 the "Last Known Sale" numbers for the 5 oz. pucks reflected a final week's rush of orders prior to a sellout, and did not reflect returns and orders that were not able to be filled, which was typically a considerable number. Today, by contrast, coins often linger on the sales reports for weeks after sales have effectively ceased, allowing the sales reports to show adjustments for cancelled and unfulfillable orders and returns.

    Once the final audited mintages are established, Clark will likely either be dethroned as the key or will be an incredibly shallow one with a very small difference between its mintage and the mintage of several of the 2012 issues.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:
    so now there is a thing called a "deep key" :(

    The term is just shorthand for a key that has a much lower mintage than any other coin in its series. The 1916 SLQ, 1916-D dime and 1995-W Silver Eagle fall into that category. A shallow key is a coin whose mintage is only slightly lower than its low-mintage neighbors in a series.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭✭

    Yep, Splitting hairs on the mintage diffs on this one and doing the same for the spousal series.
    The next tail to chase will be the AGE Proofs.
    I am glad you all continue to post on the as I think you may be the last of the dedicated collectors for these series.
    The cool part is that you seem to be enjoying the designs, too.

    Waiting for the swell in PM's and surf.
  • AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭✭

    I like many of the ATB pucks. Always have. Don't have one of each, but have kept those liked. I have also done well with speculation on the 2012s, and there certainly is demand to still pay $500 - $600 for those lowest mintages. Although the Clark issue is not an attractive strike, it has obviously already grown legs already, giving the series a boost in attention (as here). As has been said, humdrum mintages lessen the collector interest. Smart move by the Mint to create some variety. However, I do think the next few issues are much more attractive. Pictured Rocks and Apostle Islands both are very nice scenes on big silver.

    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭

    These Last Known Sales numbers are currently the commonly accepted mintage numbers for the 2012-P ATB 5 oz. silver quarters.

    Correct...normally we use the data we have and not just make claims six years out from that data release that it is incorrect.. When/if the data changes, like many things, the facts will be adjusted. To say it is incorrect without such corrected data makes zero sense to me anyway especially six years after the fact. Obviously you feel differently and seem to prefer to make assumptions into presumed facts.

    The numbers are what they are...believe what you want to believe but facts are facts....and if it makes some feel better we can just say "presently the lowest mintage" instead of a deep/soft/hard/house/garage key. That is what was referred to by the title of the thread and did not need to be made into a "deep" thread

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭✭

    I am not making claims “six years out”. The issue regarding the actual mintages of the 2012-P pucks was being actively discussed on these boards by myself and others beginning shortly after the sellouts of the Acadia and Denali coins. An extended quote of a post I made back in 2014 can be found about 30 posts earlier on this thread, and explains why it’s likely that the mintages of both coins (and possibly Hawaii) are lower than the final week’s sales totals reported. I’m continuing to try to locate a source for the final audited mintages of these coins.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭

    Good luck on your quest.

    Most recent completed sale price (Yesterday,Raw, OGP) .... $238

  • GritsManGritsMan Posts: 2,646 ✭✭✭

    Well, I knew there would be a new key as soon as I quit subscribing to the series. Just too many "blah" issues coming out. I do like the series, though, have enjoyed many, many of the designs. Will they ever be worth a "mint"? No, probably not, but fun to look at, and a bright spot compared to many other Mint offerings.

    Winner of the Coveted Devil Award June 8th, 2010
  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    @BigA said:
    Good luck on your quest.

    Most recent completed sale price (Yesterday,Raw, OGP) .... $238

    Wow! There were several with BIN at $200-$205 when I started the thread.

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2018 5:08PM

    AMPEX last OGP BIN sale $260

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2018 12:21PM

    17AN - 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - G R CLARK - 14739 - 02/26/2018

    (no change vs. prior week)

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    Pic Rocks up to 15,249 though ;-)

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭

    The only recent week that this didn't decrease in numbers was the week it was sold out....four straight weeks of decreases....and in six + years it will probably be even lower ;)

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭✭

    @BigA said:
    AMPEX last OGP BIN sale $260

    Make that $312.49

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    Pic Rocks DOWN to 14,769 (only 30 over Clark)

  • AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭✭

    @nurmaler how many pic rocks are still available? 100 at least for us plebs...
    These are an attractive issue -- will the Mint produce extra to demand?

    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    @Akbeez said:
    @nurmaler how many pic rocks are still available? 100 at least for us plebs...
    These are an attractive issue -- will the Mint produce extra to demand?

    1540 remaining.

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭

    Pic Rocks back over 15k - 15,055 as of 3/18/2018

  • nurmalernurmaler Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018 1:15PM

    1,429 left in stock

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