Civil War Tokens - The PCGS Way!
Zoins
Posts: 34,287 ✭✭✭✭✭
Back in 2012, PCGS indicated they would start slabbing Civil War Tokens (CWTs), but I haven't seen many slabbed CWTs. Recently, I thought I would take a look and I found one nice submission with some TrueViews. How is PCGS doing with CWTs and are more CWT collectors moving to PCGS?
2012 thread: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/866326/pcgs-still-doest-slab-civil-war-or-hard-times-tokens-do-they
This submission is by jester3681 of CoinTalk in October 2016. It's posted at the link below with PCGS certs: 82172509 - 82172519, 21.
CoinTalk: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/pcgs-civil-war-tokens-12-14-aint-bad.287539/
There's a great specimen of "Exigency - Time is Money", one of my all time favorite designs, along with a couple of others. See the CoinTalk thread for the rest.
I also want to say thanks to PCGS for slabbing these! The TrueViews rock!
Comments
Here is the only one I have and it is not a very valuable coin, I wonder how many times this was spent
F-241/336 Copper Our Navy
My Washington Type B/C Set
@cointime...Nice specimen... hard to find - at least it has been for me. Being an old Navy guy, I have looked for one of these... Cheers, RickO
@ricko First let me say thank you for your service to and for our country! Many years ago a coin shop in my area sold this coin to me and a couple books. Patriotic Civil War Tokens by George and Melvin Fuld dated 1965 3rd ed revised published by Whitman and Price Catalog of United States Hard Times Tokens - Hewitt's Numismatic Information Series (not dated). The later reference has the coin shops stamp on page one with contact info: B & D Coin & Stamp Co. Rantoul, ILL. Both are very neat and if I recall correctly all 3 were less than $10
My Washington Type B/C Set
@cointime ....Thank you, I will check them out.... Cheers, RickO
NGC has been grading these things a lot longer. I believe most token collectors (at least the ones who like them in slabs) currently trust their product more. You still see the overwhelming majority of CWTs in NGC slabs.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Rick, I know I have seen this CWT many times. There is always a dealer at the big shows that has a lot of real nice examples. I will check on them at the FUN show in Jan..
In the CWT world, Steve Hayden takes good photos of a lot of CWTs that he sells. It would be great to combine his photos with an online reference.
Beautiful examples Zoins! I have five civil war tokens in my collection but this one I treasure the most. My Great, Great, Granddad was born and raised in Edgerton, OH., and he lost his leg in the battle of the Wilderness. Gilis refused help for his injury for three days so others who sustained worse could be helped. By the time they got to him- gangrene had set in, and his leg was sawed off. My Grandmother shared with me that he wanted his wooden leg burned when he died because it caused him much pain after the war.
On a brighter note- he was friends with another veteran who had lost the opposite leg from his wound, and they had the same shoe size....they could split the cost on shoes!
Thanks Great, Great Pops!
@PocketArt
Great story! So, did your great-great grandfather actually own this piece?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Yes he did- thank you!
Thanks for the update. Without looking it up, I believe this one is one of the less common Civil War tokens. It may even be rare.
But, having it come directly from your ancestor makes it priceless.
Thanks for sharing this!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I see that PCGS has graded a LOT of different CWT's looking at the pop report. But not many of each. So there must be be many members submitting these. And I couldn't find any Registry sets for any CWT's. I think it would be an interesting area to collect.
Does anybody know the correct PCGS GOLD SHIELD Service label when submitting Civil War Tokens CWT for grading? I have a few I would like to send in and thought maybe somebody here would know. Example Express vs Special Issues and so forth. TYIA
For tokens, including all civil war tokens, you enter the grading tier based on the maximum value of the individual tokens. So...
If all of the tokens are worth $300 or less, you can submit them under the Economy tier. The Gold Shield costs an extra $5 for each token under this tier.
If all of the tokens are worth $3,000 or less, you can submit them under the Regular tier. The Gold Shield costs an extra $5 for each token under this tier.
If all of the tokens are worth $20,000 or less, you can submit them under the Express tier. For the Express tier and higher, Gold Shield service is automatically included for no additional charge.
You can see the grading fee schedule here:
https://www.pcgs.com/servicesandfees
You can read more about the token submission process here:
https://www.pcgs.com/tokensandmedals
Thank you cardinal got it all figured out now.
Other TPGS have been grading these things way before 1986. Today EACH of the four TPGS does these tokens. The only difference I can tell is price, accuracy, speed, and the attractiveness of the holder. AFAIK, this is one area of numismatics where the slab does not increase the value.
The big difference is all over this thread - the TrueViews!
True views are WONDERFUL! Are they free?
If so, and you have money and are not in a rush for your coins - PCGS wins hands down.
YES!!!!! The TrueViews!!!
Have you even checked the NGC coin verification? NGC started photographing all of the coins/tokens/medals for free long before TrueView started. And....just like the adage says, "you get what you paid for!" Unless they still have the service that gives you a glossy portfolio print of the coin, all there is online is a relatively out-of-focus pic shot through the holder. I really don't know if those are even sufficient to identify the coin inside the holder!
With the Gold Shield service ($5 extra for grading tiers below Express, free above that), you get the extra service and a free TrueView, which used to be an extra $10.
I like that CV token a lot. Nice!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Old Thread Update
Here's another one I ran across. Is there an easy way to see all TrueViewed Civil War Tokens? Or is creating our own list the easiest way?
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/36689425
NGC used to have a service where they gave you cropped in-slab photos in a PDF. They have a new PhotoVision service with raw coin photos with photos both with and without background. I don't think they are as good as TrueViews but they are a huge improvement. One issue is that it doesn't seem like they include them in Cert Verification so they may be hard to find.
It seems to be getting some attention from the ancients crowd who otherwise wouldn't send their coins to NGC:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AncientCoins/comments/8vq1v1/got_my_bosporos_pantikapaion_coin_back_with_the/
Here are some examples from their Instagram page.
Here's one Stef ( @coinsarefun ) got which she liked and posted here:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006601/green-river-whiskey-one-of-the-more-iconic-advertising-image-in-the-world
Thanks @Zoins The End of Pain is also mine.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Good to know @coinsarefun!
Congrats on your 1000+ followers on Instagram!
Here's a Lakesammman--view.
Here is an example from one of my favorite series of Civil War tokens, the Indiana primitives. This is Fuld number 175/403. These dies and tokens were made by Henry Higgins. He made some dies by copying them from other tokens, as noted from the obverse of this piece, and made his own dies, which is illustrated by the reverse.
Well, a quick check of the database, it seems that Civil War Tokens are limited to the three TrueViews at the most.
It does seem to be that any that are included in the inventory of a member that has a Registry Set, will be shown in full, such as this:
Lingg Token
(Of course, the 4 examples shown on the linked page are included in my inventory.)
I like that one above !!
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Thanks.
Dies by John Marr whom I regard as the best of all the CWT die sinkers.
I bought this recently. Googled Ohio 55th volunteer regiment. Those guys were ass deep in action including Gettysburg.
Nice Sutler token!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Here are a few I submitted a year or so back. I would like to send more but to busy buying. Nothing fancy but good work by our host.
1863 Token F-510AM-1a Copper PE D. Stoffel WI, AU58BN
1863 Token F-630AK-1a Copper PE Hussey's, BN
AU53 (c.1864) Token DeWitt GMcC 1864-18 Silvered-Brass Geo. B. McClellan Campaign
AU58BN - 1863 Token F-254-255 Copper Money Makes the Mare Go,
I think grading CWT's is tough for several reasons. Compared to the Mint they started with inferior dies and equipment and sometimes poor planchets too. Then they often kept striking on rusty dies or until the dies literally fell apart.
I looked at a bunch recently on ebay (maybe a clearinghouse for lesser stuff) and I think If the graders added a note or two to the slab it would be helpful. There was one token graded MS-63 that was from a very late die state, some of the details were just blobs. You could find an XF example in an early die state with much more detail and at a tenth of the price. Another MS example had very uneven blotchy toning that was not pretty. Previously I have seen CWT's graded MS with apparent corrosion.
The most disturbing one I saw though was not slabbed. It was nickel or silver priced at $700 and it looked like it had been literally minted the day before, kind of odd for any 150 year old piece of metal. I I know they are counterfeiting just about everything now but still a bummer to see.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
While copper and in a few instances brass civil war tokens were struck for use in commerce, a small number of strikes in other metals, such as the nickel or silver token mentioned, were made for sale to contemporary collectors and therefore more often than not are in mint state. Occasionally some of these still look as if it were minted yesterday.
Are there any records of contemporary collects buying the off metal strikes? It would be fascinating to read about.