Civil War Tokens - The PCGS Way!

ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,386 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited September 21, 2018 10:24PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Back in 2012, PCGS indicated they would start slabbing Civil War Tokens (CWTs), but I haven't seen many slabbed CWTs. Recently, I thought I would take a look and I found one nice submission with some TrueViews. How is PCGS doing with CWTs and are more CWT collectors moving to PCGS?

2012 thread: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/866326/pcgs-still-doest-slab-civil-war-or-hard-times-tokens-do-they

This submission is by jester3681 of CoinTalk in October 2016. It's posted at the link below with PCGS certs: 82172509 - 82172519, 21.

CoinTalk: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/pcgs-civil-war-tokens-12-14-aint-bad.287539/

There's a great specimen of "Exigency - Time is Money", one of my all time favorite designs, along with a couple of others. See the CoinTalk thread for the rest.

I also want to say thanks to PCGS for slabbing these! The TrueViews rock!



Comments

  • rickoricko Posts: 67,808 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cointime...Nice specimen... hard to find - at least it has been for me. Being an old Navy guy, I have looked for one of these... Cheers, RickO

  • cointimecointime Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭

    @ricko First let me say thank you for your service to and for our country! Many years ago a coin shop in my area sold this coin to me and a couple books. Patriotic Civil War Tokens by George and Melvin Fuld dated 1965 3rd ed revised published by Whitman and Price Catalog of United States Hard Times Tokens - Hewitt's Numismatic Information Series (not dated). The later reference has the coin shops stamp on page one with contact info: B & D Coin & Stamp Co. Rantoul, ILL. Both are very neat and if I recall correctly all 3 were less than $10 :)

  • rickoricko Posts: 67,808 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cointime ....Thank you, I will check them out.... Cheers, RickO

  • DCWDCW Posts: 3,792 ✭✭✭✭✭

    NGC has been grading these things a lot longer. I believe most token collectors (at least the ones who like them in slabs) currently trust their product more. You still see the overwhelming majority of CWTs in NGC slabs.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 19,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    @cointime...Nice specimen... hard to find - at least it has been for me. Being an old Navy guy, I have looked for one of these... Cheers, RickO

    Rick, I know I have seen this CWT many times. There is always a dealer at the big shows that has a lot of real nice examples. I will check on them at the FUN show in Jan..


    All Dimes All Varieties

    Coins for sale

    Canadian Dimes Set


    Washington Quarters All Varieties 32-64


    >RIP -image Rebecca 2004-2018...If love could have saved you - you would have lived forever<
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:
    NGC has been grading these things a lot longer. I believe most token collectors (at least the ones who like them in slabs) currently trust their product more. You still see the overwhelming majority of CWTs in NGC slabs.

    In the CWT world, Steve Hayden takes good photos of a lot of CWTs that he sells. It would be great to combine his photos with an online reference.

  • PocketArtPocketArt Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful examples Zoins! I have five civil war tokens in my collection but this one I treasure the most. My Great, Great, Granddad was born and raised in Edgerton, OH., and he lost his leg in the battle of the Wilderness. Gilis refused help for his injury for three days so others who sustained worse could be helped. By the time they got to him- gangrene had set in, and his leg was sawed off. My Grandmother shared with me that he wanted his wooden leg burned when he died because it caused him much pain after the war.

    On a brighter note- he was friends with another veteran who had lost the opposite leg from his wound, and they had the same shoe size....they could split the cost on shoes!

    Thanks Great, Great Pops!

  • DCWDCW Posts: 3,792 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PocketArt
    Great story! So, did your great-great grandfather actually own this piece?

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • PocketArtPocketArt Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:
    @PocketArt
    Great story! So, did your great-great grandfather actually own this piece?

    Yes he did- thank you!

  • DCWDCW Posts: 3,792 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the update. Without looking it up, I believe this one is one of the less common Civil War tokens. It may even be rare.
    But, having it come directly from your ancestor makes it priceless.
    Thanks for sharing this!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 19,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see that PCGS has graded a LOT of different CWT's looking at the pop report. But not many of each. So there must be be many members submitting these. And I couldn't find any Registry sets for any CWT's. I think it would be an interesting area to collect.


    All Dimes All Varieties

    Coins for sale

    Canadian Dimes Set


    Washington Quarters All Varieties 32-64


    >RIP -image Rebecca 2004-2018...If love could have saved you - you would have lived forever<
  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does anybody know the correct PCGS GOLD SHIELD Service label when submitting Civil War Tokens CWT for grading? I have a few I would like to send in and thought maybe somebody here would know. Example Express vs Special Issues and so forth. TYIA

  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For tokens, including all civil war tokens, you enter the grading tier based on the maximum value of the individual tokens. So...

    If all of the tokens are worth $300 or less, you can submit them under the Economy tier. The Gold Shield costs an extra $5 for each token under this tier.

    If all of the tokens are worth $3,000 or less, you can submit them under the Regular tier. The Gold Shield costs an extra $5 for each token under this tier.

    If all of the tokens are worth $20,000 or less, you can submit them under the Express tier. For the Express tier and higher, Gold Shield service is automatically included for no additional charge.

    You can see the grading fee schedule here:
    https://www.pcgs.com/servicesandfees

    You can read more about the token submission process here:
    https://www.pcgs.com/tokensandmedals

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2018 1:18PM

    Thank you cardinal got it all figured out now.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 11,534 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Other TPGS have been grading these things way before 1986. Today EACH of the four TPGS does these tokens. The only difference I can tell is price, accuracy, speed, and the attractiveness of the holder. AFAIK, this is one area of numismatics where the slab does not increase the value.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    Other TPGS have been grading these things way before 1986. Today EACH of the four TPGS does these tokens. The only difference I can tell is price, accuracy, speed, and the attractiveness of the holder. AFAIK, this is one area of numismatics where the slab does not increase the value.

    The big difference is all over this thread - the TrueViews!

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 11,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2018 12:59PM

    True views are WONDERFUL! Are they free?

    If so, and you have money and are not in a rush for your coins - PCGS wins hands down. :)

  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @Insider2 said:
    Other TPGS have been grading these things way before 1986. Today EACH of the four TPGS does these tokens. The only difference I can tell is price, accuracy, speed, and the attractiveness of the holder. AFAIK, this is one area of numismatics where the slab does not increase the value.

    The big difference is all over this thread - the TrueViews!

    YES!!!!! The TrueViews!!!

    Have you even checked the NGC coin verification? NGC started photographing all of the coins/tokens/medals for free long before TrueView started. And....just like the adage says, "you get what you paid for!" Unless they still have the service that gives you a glossy portfolio print of the coin, all there is online is a relatively out-of-focus pic shot through the holder. I really don't know if those are even sufficient to identify the coin inside the holder!

    With the Gold Shield service ($5 extra for grading tiers below Express, free above that), you get the extra service and a free TrueView, which used to be an extra $10.

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 11,047 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like that CV token a lot. Nice!

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Old Thread Update

    Here's another one I ran across. Is there an easy way to see all TrueViewed Civil War Tokens? Or is creating our own list the easiest way?

    https://www.pcgs.com/cert/36689425

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,386 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2019 10:46PM

    @cardinal said:

    @Zoins said:

    @Insider2 said:
    Other TPGS have been grading these things way before 1986. Today EACH of the four TPGS does these tokens. The only difference I can tell is price, accuracy, speed, and the attractiveness of the holder. AFAIK, this is one area of numismatics where the slab does not increase the value.

    The big difference is all over this thread - the TrueViews!

    YES!!!!! The TrueViews!!!

    Have you even checked the NGC coin verification? NGC started photographing all of the coins/tokens/medals for free long before TrueView started. And....just like the adage says, "you get what you paid for!" Unless they still have the service that gives you a glossy portfolio print of the coin, all there is online is a relatively out-of-focus pic shot through the holder. I really don't know if those are even sufficient to identify the coin inside the holder!

    With the Gold Shield service ($5 extra for grading tiers below Express, free above that), you get the extra service and a free TrueView, which used to be an extra $10.

    NGC used to have a service where they gave you cropped in-slab photos in a PDF. They have a new PhotoVision service with raw coin photos with photos both with and without background. I don't think they are as good as TrueViews but they are a huge improvement. One issue is that it doesn't seem like they include them in Cert Verification so they may be hard to find.

    It seems to be getting some attention from the ancients crowd who otherwise wouldn't send their coins to NGC:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AncientCoins/comments/8vq1v1/got_my_bosporos_pantikapaion_coin_back_with_the/

    Here are some examples from their Instagram page.

    • Gold:
    • Silver:
    • Silver SMS:
    • Copper:
    • Pewter?:
    • Palladium:

    Here's one Stef ( @coinsarefun ) got which she liked and posted here:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006601/green-river-whiskey-one-of-the-more-iconic-advertising-image-in-the-world

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks @Zoins The End of Pain is also mine.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,386 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2019 10:57PM

    Good to know @coinsarefun!

    Congrats on your 1000+ followers on Instagram!

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 15,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's a Lakesammman--view. :D

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).
    I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17)
    Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 27,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is an example from one of my favorite series of Civil War tokens, the Indiana primitives. This is Fuld number 175/403. These dies and tokens were made by Henry Higgins. He made some dies by copying them from other tokens, as noted from the obverse of this piece, and made his own dies, which is illustrated by the reverse.


    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible.
  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Old Thread Update

    Here's another one I ran across. Is there an easy way to see all TrueViewed Civil War Tokens? Or is creating our own list the easiest way?

    https://www.pcgs.com/cert/36689425

    Well, a quick check of the database, it seems that Civil War Tokens are limited to the three TrueViews at the most.

    It does seem to be that any that are included in the inventory of a member that has a Registry Set, will be shown in full, such as this:

    Lingg Token

    (Of course, the 4 examples shown on the linked page are included in my inventory.)

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like that one above !!

    Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV.
    Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 42 +-Year PNG Member, and an ICTA Board Member.A full time coin dealer since 1972.
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,011 ✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    I like that one above !!

    Thanks.

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 27,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019 1:55PM

    Dies by John Marr whom I regard as the best of all the CWT die sinkers.


    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible.
  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 435 ✭✭✭

    I bought this recently. Googled Ohio 55th volunteer regiment. Those guys were ass deep in action including Gettysburg.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 3,792 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JimTyler said:
    I bought this recently. Googled Ohio 55th volunteer regiment. Those guys were ass deep in action including Gettysburg.

    Nice Sutler token!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • I think grading CWT's is tough for several reasons. Compared to the Mint they started with inferior dies and equipment and sometimes poor planchets too. Then they often kept striking on rusty dies or until the dies literally fell apart.

    I looked at a bunch recently on ebay (maybe a clearinghouse for lesser stuff) and I think If the graders added a note or two to the slab it would be helpful. There was one token graded MS-63 that was from a very late die state, some of the details were just blobs. You could find an XF example in an early die state with much more detail and at a tenth of the price. Another MS example had very uneven blotchy toning that was not pretty. Previously I have seen CWT's graded MS with apparent corrosion.

    The most disturbing one I saw though was not slabbed. It was nickel or silver priced at $700 and it looked like it had been literally minted the day before, kind of odd for any 150 year old piece of metal. I I know they are counterfeiting just about everything now but still a bummer to see.

    Now........Everything must go.

  • cwtcwt Posts: 267 ✭✭

    @Icollecteverything said:
    The most disturbing one I saw though was not slabbed. It was nickel or silver priced at $700 and it looked like it had been literally minted the day before, kind of odd for any 150 year old piece of metal. I I know they are counterfeiting just about everything now but still a bummer to see.

    While copper and in a few instances brass civil war tokens were struck for use in commerce, a small number of strikes in other metals, such as the nickel or silver token mentioned, were made for sale to contemporary collectors and therefore more often than not are in mint state. Occasionally some of these still look as if it were minted yesterday.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 19,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cwt said:

    @Icollecteverything said:
    The most disturbing one I saw though was not slabbed. It was nickel or silver priced at $700 and it looked like it had been literally minted the day before, kind of odd for any 150 year old piece of metal. I I know they are counterfeiting just about everything now but still a bummer to see.

    While copper and in a few instances brass civil war tokens were struck for use in commerce, a small number of strikes in other metals, such as the nickel or silver token mentioned, were made for sale to contemporary collectors and therefore more often than not are in mint state. Occasionally some of these still look as if it were minted yesterday.

    Are there any records of contemporary collects buying the off metal strikes? It would be fascinating to read about.

Sign In or Register to comment.