Interesting SC$ on eBay of all places.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
The medal is in an NGC capsule https://ebay.com/itm/U-S-MINT-W-W-1-22K-WINGED-VICTORY-UNIQUE-RARITY-10-SO-CALLED-DOLLAR-HK-902a/253243439937?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3Dd700d55cf80f4e5e82da277d8e54976b%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D172948710873&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507 and catalogued as HK-902a. I wasn't even aware that it existed and unless I have over looked it, there is no Hibler-Kappen listing in either edition.
In short, HK-902a is a WWI Victory medal struck in 22k Gold and listed as an R-10/unique issue. To my way of thinking it should probably be in a major auction such as Heritage, but this may be a listing to gain exposure/recognition with a major auction forthcoming. Can anyone who collects these interesting medals comment on where it may have come from, where it has been hiding??
Thanks in advance.
Al H.
Comments
Quite the rarity. You would think something of that calibre would have decent images.
I wish ngc would have taken a little more time drilling that hole at the top. Pretty sloppy looking.
Beautiful, even polished.
Interesting. I wonder who it was awarded to, and the circumstances.
Note that this only "kinda sorta" counts as a So-Called Dollar, because it's looped. There are other (non-gold) versions of this medal that were never looped. There are also LOTS of examples in bronze that are looped, or had the loop removed.The truly never-looped bronze examples are much rarer than the looped and looped-removed ones. Of course, the gold one beats them all for rarity...
It's great that this piece has been assigned a HK number even though it's not in either edition of the book. It's nice to know that the cataloging continues. More info on this piece, including who wore it, would be great.
The auction says this was struck by the US Mint but I'm wondering if this is conjecture or backed by records. Information from HK and others is that the dies were prepared at the US Mint and the medals were struck by Medallic Art Co. and Art Metal Works. It makes sense that the US Mint would strike a few pieces given that they made the dies. It would be great if there were records of this.
As for price, it has a BIN of $49,500.00 and a starting price of $38,000.00. This is in the range of the two HK-1031 gold Wilson dollars being offered on the bay for $45,950.00 (PCGS AU55) and $39,950.00 (ANACS Unc details Net MS60).
this only "kinda sorta" counts as a So-Called Dollar
----- there is no argument that can be made against its inclusion although I understand the sentiment. FWIW, I try to avoid any holed medals in my collection but it can tough sometimes. additionally, I have submitted one holed medal to PCGS which qualifies under the above (4) criteria: it was returned to me un-encapsulated and noted as "Damaged" on the insert.
A truly unique piece.... I would be interested in the back story... who it was awarded to, why etc.. Cheers, RickO
since it is linked to Steve Tannenbaum there should be someone who can "sleuth" their way to an answer. I suppose it was probably part of his estate or left with his company at the time of his death. that would be a logical starting point.
any help out there about the Tannenbaum link to this medal?
Interesting price
BHNC #203
One would think that a piece like this would warrant better pictures?
Pete
I have had WWI Victory Medals before (used to collect them)...but not in gold...the ribbon is very colorful, and there were several campaign bars for the ribbon.
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The medal is beyond impaired. I wouldn't pay melt for it.
--Severian the Lame
Unsold after being offered for:
Here's the description:
Hopefully it finds a good home!
Thanks for posting it @keets. Definitely a unique and interesting piece!
It is a rare piece........but to say "polished" is an understatement.
Sad.
Pete
It is amazing that something like that has no indication as to the awardee. General Pershing seems to be most logical choice but without a paper trail ... who knows. Also, just how did it come to be on the market. This is something I would want to know if I were a buyer.
Yes, it probably was polished as it was a military medal ... no a so-called dollar. It is lacking its ribbon and campaign bars, a negative.
While it is rare in gold it is extremely common in bronze. I have an example, with ribbon and bars, that was my grandfather's.
I never seen it in gold. With that kind of price you'd think they would have more informations.
The brass one is as beautiful
the seller states about it being polished because it was actually a medal that was to be awarded, presented and worn, the bigger question is to whom??? accepting that it was struck by the US Mint there should be records available to trace origin and provenance. since the insert notes Steve Tannenbaum, a fairly well known dealer of Coins and Exonumia, I would expect there is some type of information available.
a few things that are solely my opinion --- depending on the nature of the "polishing" that NGC notes I would view that to be "as issued" for the medal. also, I would imagine that NGC has some sort of information as does the current owner. the best thing would be a Stack's or Heritage auction sale. rest assured, if either of those two sold it there would be a detailed write-up about what it is and where it came from.
I'm surprised that more of the critical information was not added in the description.
Now offered for $63,000 by a different seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1919-20-HK-902A-SC-1-W-W-I-Victory-Gold-Medal-Ex-Steve-Tanenbaum-Collection/173231377293?hash=item2855650b8d:g:HFoAAOSwlJlatBku
Here's some info in the description:
It didn't sell previously. Hopefully it will find a good home this time.
Agreed, 5 figures? I wouldn't pay 3 figures. $28K dreck lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
while I sort of understand everyone's disdain for the medal as listed, the statement by Weiss and agreement above is a bit ludicrous.
I'm actually disappointed by NGC, that they would certify a medal which is Historically significant as "Genuine" without being able to provide any sort of origin. I suppose I should say that same thing about the eBay seller and the previous owner. someone, somewhere knows the provenance, probably the Executor of an Estate.
That medal was in a major auction. I stumbled across it not long ago. Unfortunately, I can't remember where. I'll try and hunt it down if I have time.
It's possible. But I've seen material that left the family due to financial circumstances and then makes a couple stops before someone realizes what it actually is. It might not have recently come from the estate of the original owner and the provenance becomes harder to establish.
Must be government records, no?
I find this mystery more interesting than the Omega
I have to say after carefully examining the new images from @Zoins ' post above: It's beyond impaired, and I wouldn't pay melt for it. It should be bought, cracked, and immediately smelted to put it out of its own misery.
--Severian the Lame
I feel the same way about the Statue of Liberty. She's so heavily oxidized that not even Acetone or MS70 could help. She should be melted for scrap.
Weiss, do you believe the medal has any Historical significance??
If it is subsequently established that the medal is traced to the estate of General Pershing would you still advocate for it being melted??
Any documentation to support a mintage of 1?
That's a well-known, fairly common medal in bronze, and it's a shame that the ribbon and hanger are no longer with it. I haven't been able to find any evidence of a gold example being awarded, but will contact a friend who probably has some insight.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
I would guess that since it is R-10, unique that it was only awarded to one individual. I'm pretty sure the WWI records are still fairly accessible - a lot of WWII records were burned in a fire.
I knew that medal looked familiar. It's been bugging me since yesterday. After searching my old emails I found that it was offered to me in the fall of 2015. At the time it was in an non-pedigreed NCS genuine slab. I see that the medal is still located in the same state (Florida) as it was back in 2015.
I had a hard time coming up with a value back then and I still am today. Having said that, I do think it's worth less than $10k.
The price is down $18K from the March 2018 price to $45K or best offer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1919-20-HK-902A-SC-1-W-W-I-Victory-Gold-Medal-Ex-Steve-Tanenbaum-Collection/173231377293?
Nearly two years later and my opinion is unchanged. It should be smelted, and the used crucible crushed with a sledgehammer so it can't contaminate anything else.
--Severian the Lame