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I've always wondered on the definition of "Modern Coinage"

Hello Again, I suppose That it depends on your area of collection.Walked into this crabby 85 yr. old dealer's shop who thinks Modern Coinage is not worth collecting. Practically insults me for collecting Modern Coinage as a "Waste of Time". Says " People who pay high prices for Moderns are Idiots It's his opinion. I walked out and never went back. I collect a little of everything from 1909 up If I like the coin.What do you call Modern? Let me hear what you think is Modern. :)

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    CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think of modern as post 1932 or so. That is not to say that modern coins are crap or not worth collecting. I am a fan of many of the silver, gold and bi metal issues. Clad I pass on unless it is a significant error.

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    dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I consider post WWII to be "modern."

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    BruceSBruceS Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2017 7:06PM

    Whatever the definition people are selling a ton of modern coins so the market is healthy. Some dealers are just stuck in their ways.

    I personally consider moderns minted in the last 50 years or so. Anything made before I was born I don't consider to be in that class. Jmo


    eBay ID-bruceshort978
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anything made 1950 or later is "modern."
    (P.S.: I was born in 1950.)

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2017 8:10PM

    I consider 1999 and later to be moderns. Series like the following are qualitatively different than other series because multiple types are issued per year.

    • Statehood quarters
    • America the Beautiful quarters
    • Presidential dollars
    • Lincoln bicentennial cents
    • Westward Journey nickels
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Modern coins depend on when you were born. Many my age consider coins made after 1964 to be "modern." We call pre-1964 coins "vintage." !964 is a long way in the past now. @Zoins has it figured out pretty well. I'll add Silver Eagles and commemoratives from the 1980'S.

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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Modern coins include all machinery-struck coins after the French Revolution (1793).

    You look at the technology, which is European, and NOT some artificial American-concentric time reference.

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    Beefer518Beefer518 Posts: 33 ✭✭✭

    I read somewhere (CW or NM most likely), that post 1933 is considered modern by many. Don't remember the details, but the year stuck in my head.

    I think I consider anything post 1959 as modern, cause when I was a kid, "wheaties" were ancient.

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    post 1964

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    StoogeStooge Posts: 4,649 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Actually I think the term Modern is flexible with each denomination.

    Lincolns for instance changed in 1959 and that's different from 1964. Then there was a metal change in 1982.
    Washington Quarters started in 1932, but went to clad in 1964.
    Roosies are looked upon by some as a modern coin even going back to 1946.
    Just a small amt. of examples or course.

    It all depends on the way you look at it I guess...IMHO, I think moderns start in 1964.


    Later, Paul.
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I mislike arbitrary "Lines" with a binary "this or that" subjective definition.

    I tend to think of Modern US coins, depending on context, as others have said, beginning in either 1999, or 1982, or 1965, or 1948, or 1932, or 1909, or 1892, or 1864, or 1853, or 1836, or 1817, or 1808. Or maybe 1805.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017 9:25AM

    When going earlier for US coins, just about all coins can look modern when compared to the Massachusetts shillings ;)

    Those are from a different era.

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    MACGE1MACGE1 Posts: 269 ✭✭✭

    I’d say anything minted post 1964 would be called modern with a couple of exceptions.

    If you think about it, 1794 dollars were considered modern at one point too - in 1794. Calling modern coins a “waste of time” and “something that shouldn’t be collected” is unintelligent and boorish. Imagine if the early collectors of US coinage were told that and didn’t preserve any great coins? Would the hobby be better or worse off? It shows a lack of foresight IMO, not to mention a lack of interest in studying numismatics which is the mark of a great collector.

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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cents - 1959
    Nickels - Jefferson
    Dimes - Roosies
    Quarters - Washingtons
    Halves - Franklins
    Dollars - Ikes

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    Batman23Batman23 Posts: 4,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1965 is what I would consider a modern, and it is even before my time.

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    mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My definition of "modern' US coinage starts in 1965.
    Although I could go forward in time to 1975/76 when the Bicentennial designs got rolling and opened the door for what was to come.
    They were a big deal back then.
    For commems, it's obviously 1982.
    I never thought I'd see the US Mint coin in .900 silver ever again.

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    19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,475 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm of the opinion that "Modern coinage" refers to the art used on the coins.

    Specifically, when the government moved away from artistic representations of Lady Liberty, they moved into the modern coin design era.

    Presidents and Patriots indicate modern coinage. And then there's that Native American on the nickels. All Modern Coinage.

    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
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    ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1964 when we stopped using silver (for the most part).

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are many ways to define this... and reading the above posts certainly demonstrate that. In general, I would say post 1964 when silver was discontinued. For me, that is a dividing line....for individual coins, one can make different determinations..... For my own collecting, I do not really pay much attention to whether it is modern or pre-modern.... The coin is the focus for me. Cheers, RickO

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Modern coinage starts at 1965 because that's when they got rid of the silver.

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    10000lakes10000lakes Posts: 811 ✭✭✭✭

    PCGS defines it as after 1964.

    https://pcgs.com/top100/details.aspx

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said: "I mislike arbitrary "Lines" with a binary "this or that" subjective definition. I tend to think of Modern US coins, depending on context, as others have said, beginning in either 1999, or 1982, or 1965, or 1948, or 1932, or **1909, or 1892, or 1864, or 1853, or 1836, or 1817, or 1808. Or maybe 1805. **"

    @BillDugan1959 said: "Modern coins include all machinery-struck coins after the French Revolution (1793). You look at the technology, which is European, and NOT some artificial American-concentric time reference."

    Ok, IMHO these are the types of comments from members I consider to be very knowledgeable (?) that only confuse folks with much less knowledge who may read this FICTION.

    The OP asked a very simple question that many of us less knowledgeable folks answered along with PCGS. Most of us have reasonable opinions; but posting that a coin struck in 1909 or even worse, 1793 shows at the minimum, a misunderstanding of the OP's question. o:)

    Otherwise, these two statements are...well, I'm not allowed to post what I really, REALLY, REALLY wish to say to these two members. :(

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    TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @10000lakes said:
    PCGS defines it as after 1964.

    And yet, the PCGS Registry has this:

    "Modern Type Set (1950-present)"

    Sigh....There is no universally accepted right answer. :disappointed:

    Easily distracted Type Collector
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TommyType said:

    @10000lakes said:
    PCGS defines it as after 1964.

    And yet, the PCGS Registry has this:

    "Modern Type Set (1950-present)"

    Sigh....There is no universally accepted right answer. :disappointed:

    As others have posted there are opinions. As an old "dinosaur" I was filling my folders with "MODERN" coins dated in the 1940's. Lincolns in the 1950's were still "red." Even back then, NO INTELLIGENT NUMISMATIST or collector considered a coin made in 1909 as being "modern."

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    TurboSnailTurboSnail Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017 9:45AM

    My opinion of modern is circulating coin design that may be out of production but still recognizable by the general public beside collectors.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017 9:54AM

    PS I forgot to add that IMO, NO INTELLIGENT, informed, qualified numismatist or collector (whos opinion should matter at all) would consider any coin made before the 20thth Century to be "modern."

    Now. let's see if we can "TROLL-UP" any of those folks to disagree with my statement. :wink:

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    TurboSnailTurboSnail Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017 10:17AM

    @Insider2 said:
    Now. let's see if we can "TROLL-UP" any of those folks to disagree with my statement. :wink:

    No worry, Even MrGhost with a record breaking of 92 disagreeing within a day won't be able to catch up and take away your champion title anytime soon. :D

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillDugan1959

    IMO, "Disagrees" are meaningless, take no time, and MAY show no understanding of a subject if made without comment as even an uninformed, YN clowning around can push a button.

    Please defend why your opinion of what is considered to be a modern coin is not nonsense. Otherwise, thanks for your participation in the thread as there is often at least one... ;)

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    SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In 30 years when most baby boomer collectors (those born between 1946 and 1966) are dead or in their 80s and older, I wonder how collectors will answer the question "What is the definition of a Modern Coin."

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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017 10:48AM

    @DIMEMAN said:
    Cents - 1959
    Nickels - Jefferson
    Dimes - Roosies
    Quarters - Washingtons
    Halves - Franklins
    Dollars - Ikes

    Halves: + jfks
    Dollars: + prez series

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017 10:58AM

    @SanctionII said:
    In 30 years when most baby boomer collectors (those born between 1946 and 1966) are dead or in their 80s and older, I wonder how collectors will answer the question "What is the definition of a Modern Coin."

    I still think that for a long time it will go back to the change in composition. Let's see what @BillDugan1959 has to say since those folks living in the 18th Century have been dead for a couple of hundred years.

    Thanks, fixed it!

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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @SanctionII said:
    In 30 years when most baby boomer collectors (those born between 1946 and 1966) are dead or in their 80s and older, I wonder how collectors will answer the question "What is the definition of a Modern Coin."

    I still thing that for a long time it will go back to the change in composition. Let's see what @BillDugan1959 has to say since those folks living in the 18th Century have been dead for a couple of hundred years.

    and I still think that thing is nothing but a round metal disk B)

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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You will never be bucking for the title of "Numismatist" if you don't get past late twentieth century American coins.

    Modern coins are defined by how they are manufactured. Essentially, the Wars of the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Era forced 'factory made' mass produced coins to be worked out. Matthew Boulton did this at the Soho Mint and the Western World adopted his methods. The fabric of coins as we know them today was worked out 1793 - 1815 and The Royal Mint then installed these mass manufacture methods following Boulton.

    All U.S. Federal coinages are "modern" except for a few of the earliest issues.

    In some areas, the modern mints are in the fifth and sixth generations of 'machinery', but the methods are the same as 200 years ago, and the fabric and tenor of the coins are the same. They are all uniform metal objects within a highly familiar pattern. So those coins are all 'modern'.

    When referring to post-1964 or 1971 or 1982 coinages, the term 'recent' coins is much better.

    Somebody's caregiver must have taken a long weekend and certain dosages have been skipped or forgotten.

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    TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillDugan1959 said:
    You will never be bucking for the title of "Numismatist" if you don't get past late twentieth century American coins.

    Modern coins are defined by how they are manufactured. Essentially, the Wars of the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Era forced 'factory made' mass produced coins to be worked out. Matthew Boulton did this at the Soho Mint and the Western World adopted his methods. The fabric of coins as we know them today was worked out 1793 - 1815 and The Royal Mint then installed these mass manufacture methods following Boulton.

    All U.S. Federal coinages are "modern" except for a few of the earliest issues.

    In some areas, the modern mints are in the fifth and sixth generations of 'machinery', but the methods are the same as 200 years ago, and the fabric and tenor of the coins are the same. They are all uniform metal objects within a highly familiar pattern. So those coins are all 'modern'.

    When referring to post-1964 or 1971 or 1982 coinages, the term 'recent' coins is much better.

    Somebody's caregiver must have taken a long weekend and certain dosages have been skipped or forgotten.

    To be fair....you are answering a completely different question than everyone else. ;)

    Easily distracted Type Collector
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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017 10:58AM

    Everybody else is talking about 'recent' coins. I own quite a few of those too. Too many, maybe.

    I can't figure out why 1971 isn't being thrown out as the defining date, if silver in circulating American coins is so important.

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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Somebody's caregiver must have taken a long weekend and certain dosages have been skipped or forgotten."

    ....and I thought that thing was square.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillDugan1959 said: "You will never be bucking for the title of "Numismatist" if you don't get past late twentieth century American coins.
    Modern coins are defined by how they are manufactured. Essentially, the Wars of the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Era forced 'factory made' mass produced coins to be worked out. Matthew Boulton did this at the Soho Mint and the Western World adopted his methods. The fabric of coins as we know them today was worked out 1793 - 1815 and The Royal Mint then installed these mass manufacture methods following Boulton.

    All U.S. Federal coinages are "modern" except for a few of the earliest issues. In some areas, the modern mints are in the fifth and sixth generations of 'machinery', but the methods are the same as 200 years ago, and the fabric and tenor of the coins are the same. They are all uniform metal objects within a highly familiar pattern. So those coins are all 'modern'. When referring to post-1964 or 1971 or 1982 coinages, the term 'recent' coins is much better.

    Somebody's caregiver must have taken a long weekend and certain dosages have been skipped or forgotten."

    Thanks for the reply. I agree 100% with the inattention of someone's caregiver. Perhaps you should complain to them that they are not giving you the close attention you may be paying for!

    Nevertheless, Bill, I agree with the technicalities you raise. However, the OP asked a very simple and easy to understand question. IMO, you did not answer it and furthermore, two posts in this discussion may have the effect of turning this thread into confusing nonsense for some of us below your level of knowledge.

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    KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had this same experience at a dealer this weekend in Sarasota, FL. He was bashing the current Modern coin market and even went as far as to say it "ruined" the coin market for the "real collectors". Needless to say, after my head twisting around like Carrie, I told him a little about myself and left with, sorry we could not do business. I purchased something from most tables that I spent a little time at even if just $50.00 but when I heard this I was disgusted and felt angry. Like @Ricko always says, its the buyers money let them get what they want. I think Modern has helped not hurt. You get a lot of cross sales when dealing in coins.

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017 11:18AM

    @Insider2 said:
    @BillDugan1959 said: "You will never be bucking for the title of "Numismatist" if you don't get past late twentieth century American coins.
    Modern coins are defined by how they are manufactured. Essentially, the Wars of the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Era forced 'factory made' mass produced coins to be worked out. Matthew Boulton did this at the Soho Mint and the Western World adopted his methods. The fabric of coins as we know them today was worked out 1793 - 1815 and The Royal Mint then installed these mass manufacture methods following Boulton.

    All U.S. Federal coinages are "modern" except for a few of the earliest issues. In some areas, the modern mints are in the fifth and sixth generations of 'machinery', but the methods are the same as 200 years ago, and the fabric and tenor of the coins are the same. They are all uniform metal objects within a highly familiar pattern. So those coins are all 'modern'. When referring to post-1964 or 1971 or 1982 coinages, the term 'recent' coins is much better.

    Somebody's caregiver must have taken a long weekend and certain dosages have been skipped or forgotten."

    Thanks for the reply. I agree 100% with the inattention of someone's caregiver. Perhaps you should complain to them that they are not giving you the close attention you may be paying for!

    Nevertheless, Bill, I agree with the technicalities you raise. However, the OP asked a very simple and easy to understand question. IMO, you did not answer it and furthermore, two posts in this discussion may have the effect of turning this thread into confusing nonsense for some of us below your level of knowledge.

    Now I'm totally "konfused" & I've taken my allotment of meds for the day thanks to my caretaker.
    Actually intelligence sounds fancier than knowledge.
    Naw let's use both knowledge & intelligence.
    Sorry to confuse y'all.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @KollectorKing

    Thanks, I made the correction. However,I should be more interested in reading your comment addressing the OP's question rather then getin an speling an grammer leson. I looked but did not see one yet.

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    10000lakes10000lakes Posts: 811 ✭✭✭✭

    Since we are discussing this on the PCGS forum.
    Another confirming fact on what is a 'modern' coin is the grading tiers, as long as it valued at less that 1K.

    So if it's valued over 1k, then you could claim it's not 'modern' :#

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    mt_mslamt_msla Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭

    I think 1954 and after. Yes, I said 54 not 64. Why? Just cuz.

    Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]

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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017 11:43AM

    Looks like the modern line is a "personal" thing. Let's just leave it at that and move on.

    Just as a side note I'm pretty sure that the OP was NOT referring to the "coining process" when asking this question.

    But thanks Bill for all the not needed coining processes information in France years ago. ;)B)

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    TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To heck with you all! I don't need to be no steenkin' "Numismatist".....I'm a "Master Collector" now! Bow to me....

    (What? I'm not the first to get 5 stars? Crap....)

    Easily distracted Type Collector
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    oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would have to agree at whenever 90% silver was removed from dime, quarter and half. Along with Jefferson Nickels and Lincoln Cents.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kkathyl

    35 years ago, a very smart coin dealer (still active) stated that he was glad that the recent collector stuff was being produced, but part of his then-reasoning was that so much good older stuff would eventually permanently exit the marketplace and that dealers would still have to have something to sell.

    Today's reality of it seems to be that there is a shortfall of collectors/buyers and that the overall supply of material (both older and newer) isn't that much of a problem. At least there's no shortfall. So dealers are crying over their showcases and stretching for reasons that lots of stuff is going begging. Non-circulating legal tender (NCLT) coins get some of the blame. Don't take it personally, the market hasn't hit a spot like this present slow situation for the last twenty-five years or so.

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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017 11:54AM

    @DIMEMAN

    I was called out on that lengthy explanation, well-knowing that few would want to hear it.

    If I see you in STL this weekend, perhaps I can accidentally bump your chair.

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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    @KollectorKing

    Thanks, I made the correction. However,I should be more interested in reading your comment addressing the OP's question rather then getin an speling an grammer leson. I looked but did not see one yet.

    Isn't it good enuff to agree w/what you said? I'm on meds so my attention spell is ltd.

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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This:

    "Nevertheless, Bill, I agree with the technicalities you raise. However, the OP asked a very simple and easy to understand question. IMO, you did not answer it and furthermore, two posts in this discussion may have the effect of turning this thread into confusing nonsense for some of us below your level of knowledge."

    Isn't cut & paste fun.

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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This & other recent posts have gotten to verbose for my taste.

    B)

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