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A 1908 Half Eagle CAC- able?

NumivenNumiven Posts: 377 ✭✭✭
edited October 13, 2017 11:09AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I photographed this last night, to me it looks beautiful. Its a 61 PCGS, which I feel is slightly undergraded IMO.

CAC able? What are your opinions? How you like the pics? Much appreciated.

Numismatics & Photography
rv@ravenumismatics.com
Instagram.com/coin2photo

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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks CHAU to me, so who knows... Then again these days MS62 is the new AU58 ;)

    Good Luck! :)

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Photo looks great, color, luster, etc.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful coin! Love the color on it.

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    NumivenNumiven Posts: 377 ✭✭✭

    Whats CHAU?

    Numismatics & Photography
    rv@ravenumismatics.com
    Instagram.com/coin2photo

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see dull spots on the Indian's cheekbone and a flat spot at the top of the eagle's wing. My grade would be Choice AU so I don't see a CAC in this coin's future unless the grade on the holder is Choice AU.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭

    Same thought as Bill Jones.

    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2017 1:48PM

    @Numiven said:
    Whats CHAU?

    CHAU means Choice Almost Uncirculated or numerically AU55.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    shishshish Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice AU-58, sorry no CAC

    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
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    NumivenNumiven Posts: 377 ✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck said:

    @Numiven said:
    Whats CHAU?

    CHAU means Choice Almost Circulated or numerically AU55

    Gotcha! Pardon my ignorance....

    Numismatics & Photography
    rv@ravenumismatics.com
    Instagram.com/coin2photo

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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2017 1:58PM

    AU58 camp. $5 Indian half eagles make it a game of going back and forth between 58 and 61/62 holders. Not easy to actually find a 61 without rub. This one has a half dozen spots showing what appears to be wear. Field luster looks ok.

    I stopped playing with these in lower MS grades when I resubmitted a very choice looking MS62 and it came back AU58 next 2 times back. I'd bet a lot of the 61/62's come from bulk submissions with min grades of 61/62.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the coin - after all, it IS a gold Indian ;) - however, I do not think it will get a green bean.... mainly for the reasons BillJones listed... Cheers, RickO

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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fair bit of rub on that for an MS coin

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    KoveKove Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017 12:32AM

    I don't think there's any chance that the coin would sticker as an MS coin.

    Edited to add that I think the photos are very good.

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU? Not so fast. Consider that the fields , which appear to be undisturbed, are the high point. Would there be actual rub on the cheek and shoulders? Could there be lustre under the very rich and lovely toning? Scuffs and hairlines? Maybe these questions are important to less experienced members.

    BTW, the only US gold tougher to grade than this series are Indian QE's. And I'm only offering these factors for consideration. My guess is it gets a bean.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting points Colonel....And I agree, they are difficult coins to grade. I do hope it is submitted, it will be informative. Cheers, RickO

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017 9:13AM

    High points? LOL, sly >:)

    I'd pay the (insured) postage homeward and the submission fee if the owner gave permission. Direct to CAC and back to owner, as I'd do for any collector (without paying ;) ), I'm certain JA would give you personal feedback to share.

    PM later if wanted. :)
    I'm curious. Especially as I can't grade from pictures. :(:)

    Would anyone pass at 61 money? Even in a 55 slab? B)
    Would it slide into a 62 set as a better date 58 with a gold bean ??? :(

    Edited to add: Upon further reflection, or lack of same B) , the field area between the legs is strangely dull to an extent beyond the noted cheek and shoulder. NFW as a technical unc. As per @ricko , your consideration is more important than my purported observations or opinions.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017 11:14AM

    i like the coin as au58. i think if it did cac, that would help you with that grade of 61. ***

    ***comment based on photo only

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017 9:18AM

    I'm waiting for (unlikely) @CaptHenway or, especially for the_disagrees_, @Insider2 (our favorite slander slut) to chime in with 53,

    Sorry for the OT trolling :s Great picture, good thread :)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017 9:36AM

    POOF! You summoned...

    I agree 100% with your "technical" grade. That's why I'd never be a successful coin dealer or TPGS finalizer. :(

    Now a question: What is the difference between a "slander slut" and a "libel slut?"

    BTW, this coin is a perfect example of "color" used for grading.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,552 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ColonelJessup said:
    I'm waiting for (unlikely) @CaptHenway or, especially for the_disagrees_, @Insider2 (our favorite slander slut) to chime in with 53,

    Sorry for the OT trolling :s Great picture, good thread :)

    Some coins are not worth commenting on.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @ColonelJessup said:
    I'm waiting for (unlikely) @CaptHenway or, especially for the_disagrees_, @Insider2 (our favorite slander slut) to chime in with 53,

    Sorry for the OT trolling :s Great picture, good thread :)

    Some coins are not worth commenting on.

    DO NOT FEED THE TROLL :#

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @ColonelJessup said:
    I'm waiting for (unlikely) @CaptHenway or, especially for the_disagrees_, @Insider2 (our favorite slander slut) to chime in with 53,

    Sorry for the OT trolling :s Great picture, good thread :)

    Some coins are not worth commenting on.

    That's what my mom tried to teach me..."If you can't say something nice..." I never learned but I often try: The OP's coin has very nice color.

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017 12:59PM

    @Insider2 said:
    POOF! You summoned...

    I agree 100% with your "technical" grade. That's why I'd never be a successful coin dealer or TPGS finalizer. :(

    Now a question: What is the difference between a "slander slut" and a "libel slut?"

    BTW, this coin is a perfect example of "color" used for grading.

    What an unexpected question! "Libel" is technically accurate; "slander slut" is more euphonious. Either highlights the mantle of auto-self-pseudo-victimization you often take it upon yourself to wear, oh Master of the Socratic Method. o:)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ColonelJessup said: "Sorry for the OT trolling :s..."

    @ColonelJessup posted: "DO NOT FEED THE TROLL :# "

    Now, by your own admission Mr. Troll >:) , do you see the "change of color" in the fields between the legs and on the rim from the 7 to 10 O'clock? How about between the first star and the date? IMO, you and most members called it correctly - About Uncirculated; yet it's a nice looking, "market acceptable," TPGS graded "Commercial" Unc.

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017 9:58AM

    @Insider2 said:
    @ColonelJessup said: "Sorry for the OT trolling :s..."

    @ColonelJessup posted: "DO NOT FEED THE TROLL :# "

    Now, by your own admission Mr. Troll >:) , do you see the "change of color" in the fields between the legs and on the rim from the 7 to 10 O'clock? How about between the first star and the date? IMO, you and most members called it correctly - About Uncirculated; yet it's a nice looking, "market acceptable," TPGS graded "Commercial" Unc.

    BONGO SAY SOON ANNOUNCING HOST SLAB BRAILLE

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ColonelJessup replied: "Libel" is technically accurate; "slander slut" is more euphonious..."

    That's why AU-53 might be "technically" accurate; yet Mint State is more pleasant sounding to everyone concerned. :wink:

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017 11:57AM

    @ColonelJessup said:

    @CaptHenway said:

    @ColonelJessup said:
    I'm waiting for (unlikely) @CaptHenway or, especially for the_disagrees_, @Insider2 (our favorite slander slut) to chime in with 53,

    Sorry for the OT trolling :s Great picture, good thread :)

    Some coins are not worth commenting on.

    DO NOT FEED THE TROLL :#

    I threw the flag ... calling CaptHenway a "troll" is like rating Abraham Lincoln as the worst president ever. It has no basis in fact.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,552 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:

    @ColonelJessup said:

    @CaptHenway said:

    @ColonelJessup said:
    I'm waiting for (unlikely) @CaptHenway or, especially for the_disagrees_, @Insider2 (our favorite slander slut) to chime in with 53,

    Sorry for the OT trolling :s Great picture, good thread :)

    Some coins are not worth commenting on.

    DO NOT FEED THE TROLL :#

    I threw the flag ... calling CaptHenway a "troll" is like rating Abraham Lincoln as the worst president ever. It has no basis in fact.

    Not to worry....he was calling himself the troll.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    musstangrmusstangr Posts: 61 ✭✭✭

    Well friendly (?) banter aside, what a great and helpful photo to actually be able to see rub or wear marks on a coin not in hand, esp such a tough to grade coin such as the indian golds. Thanks Numiven for sharing this great photo.

    Also, thanks to Insider for pointing out the other areas affected I never really focus on. I for one found this thread very enlightening.

    Now a question question, can we call the great color on this coin original?

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    tommy44tommy44 Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In my opinion this series, along with the Indian quarter eagle are probably the two most difficult to grade unless you do it all day long. That being said I agree with Bill Jones, choice AU, no CAC. Nice coin though, I still lack one for my type set.

    it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017 1:49PM

    @musstangr said:
    Well friendly (?) banter aside, what a great and helpful photo to actually be able to see rub or wear marks on a coin not in hand, esp such a tough to grade coin such as the indian golds. Thanks Numiven for sharing this great photo.

    Also, thanks to Insider for pointing out the other areas affected I never really focus on. I for one found this thread very enlightening.

    Now a question question, can we call the great color on this coin original?

    Three basic colors: Dark orange, bright gold, and dull tan. Each tell a "story" about the surface.

    I believe this "look" is called "dirty gold." :D The color is desirable. Note the contrast between the eagle's breast and the darker field.

    PS There is another color in the field across the top of the headdress; however, It is out of the scope of this discussion w/o seeing the coin in hand under florescent light.

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It has been my experience that the $5 gold Indian is the most difficult coin to find in strict Mint State, by far, in the eight piece gold type set. I'd even go far as to say that it just as hard if not harder than the Type II Gold Dollar and the Three Dollar Gold Piece in the 12 piece set. When I was kid collector in the 1960s I had a hard time finding one. They always seemed to have a rub on the Indian's cheekbone or the top of the eagle's wing. The Indian Quarter Eagle is tougher than the Liberty Quarter Eagle in Mint State, but no where near as hard to find as the Indian Half Eagle.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'll agree with Bill. In my experience, until PCGS started slabbing coins, most low denomination Indians were virtually impossible to find at shows or shops in strict technical Unc condition. Today, they are easy to find in MS-63 and above slabs.

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    NicNic Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice pics and coin if accurate. I would buy it if so. CAC doesn't make much difference in price.

    Ignore IS2 CJ.

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    NumivenNumiven Posts: 377 ✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017 6:11PM

    Great analysis... thank you!

    Anyways, this coin has a good eye appeal. I love the coin. I actually, loved photographing this beauty!

    I will know soon on CAC.

    BTW, if you would like to image your coins, pls let me know, both numismatics and photography are too dear to me. Thankfully, I don't do both for living, so I can be true to the fact!

    Numismatics & Photography
    rv@ravenumismatics.com
    Instagram.com/coin2photo

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2017 7:43AM

    Great pics. That's a very photogenic coin.

    The eagle's wing/leg and indian's headdress look to have a fair bit of rub. I haven't been grading these but it's good to know what these are grading at these days. Would love to know what CAC says.

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