So on a scale of 1 to 10, how pretty is this 1909 Lincoln?
WingedLiberty1957
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This is a 1909 plain, graded PCGS MS66RB -- tougher to find appealing (IMHO) than the more heavily saved 1909 VDB.
The detail in the wheat ears is nice. But that combination of green, gold, and red just mesmerizes me.
If you have a nicer one, post it! I want to gawk.
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9 lots of tiny spots.
Hard to find perfection -- but fun to strive.
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Here is one for sale on flea bay right now for $1300, a real beauty slabbed by your host.....
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Matte proofs are practically cheating
I'd give the OP coin a solid 8 or 9
Collector, occasional seller
@WingedLiberty1957, I’d give it a 10 out of 10 for Gorgeous Eye Appeal based on a combination of Beautiful Color, Radiant Mint Luster, Sharp Strike & Excellent Preservation State!
Stuart
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yep, a solid 10, congrats!
and I would give the OP coin a 9 out of 10.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
9.
Not perfect, but close enough I’d buy it, were I in the market.
I think the coin lovely as all get-out, but if I were to give it a numeric value for attractiveness then it would have to be dinged for the myriad spots.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The spots are so tiny they don't add up to squat. Solid 9.859
Nine. Great coin.
The coin is comparatively spot free.
Dark spots on colorful and naturally toned Lincolns are inevitable. They can be a sign of original color, and it is fairly rare to find one without.
Here's mine, spots and all.
Hard to avoid spots on copper so I am giving it a 9.
Rony, gorgeous 1909! That beats mine, imho.
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Really like the OP's coin!
@291fifth said: "5. Attractive but I don't like the light spotting."
Trying to learn here. THIS IS NOT PERSONAL. NOT ONE poster likes the obvious spots. So not to put you on the spot...
Pretend you are the grading instructor, and told the class it was a 5. Now I question you because I can be a PITA in a grading class.
There is a lot of room left between 5 and 10. Do you think the color and luster could get you to raise your #? For example, would the coin be at least an 8 w/o the spots? So perhaps a 7 with them. Can I get a 6 or seven out of 10 from you? I know grading is an opinion but perhaps you pulled the trigger too quickly. OTHERWISE, I wish to know what you know that the other "students" and I do not!
@TomB What's your #?
Pretty coin. I'll go with 8.
Very pretty, WL. I expected no less.
Here's a modest 65RD in an old holder. I would have guessed 65RB but whatever.
Lance.
9+
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I like it!!
Here is one I purchased off eBay awhile back,,,,
Oh yea,,,, I got a Green Bean on both when I sent them in
One of my Very modest raw 1909 cents.
Ken
That's a lovely coin.....I'm at a 9.6 or 9.7......
I like it! I’d say 8/10 but I’m perhaps spoiled by the ridiculous 09-VDBs I know.
On a scale of 1 to 10 I'd give it a 66. I cheated and peeked.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
WOW...this is my favorite so far. I give this a 10+ the rest are 9's. I don't like spots.
Very nice 1909 cents all around. For the OP Lincoln I would score it a 10 for beauty, but a 9 overall because of the spotting.
I would be proud to own this coin.
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@insider2 that is a good question regarding what my number would be on this coin.
My interpretation of the image in the post is that there is a partial fingerprint behind the portrait of Lincoln and I find partial prints such as this distracting. However, what I dislike even more are the, for lack of a better term, "dead spots" beneath the 0 in the date on the obverse and the T in CENTS on the reverse. In my experience, these type of spots will show fairly well at some angles and not so well at others. They can also appear like very shallow luster grazes or as opaque material. The in-hand appearance of those spots would go far in determining a final number, but I am fairly certain that the partial fingerprint exists.
I also realize that some of the best toned coins have prints, dirt or contaminants on their surfaces and that oftentimes these other materials likely played an important role in the natural toning of the coin in question. I understand all that, but it does not mean I have to embrace the aesthetics of them.
In this case, I think the coin is quite pretty and from the TrueView images I think it's also overgraded (in my opinion). However, I believe the grade has less to do with the value than what we generally see in coins. My impression is that I would give this coin perhaps as high as an 8 for eye appeal, but my gut feel is that it would be more in line with a 7.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Pretty pretty. gets an 8 from me.
On a beauty scale I'm at a 9. Not because of the fly spec spots, because we just aren't sure what a 10 could look like but this is at the high end for sure, IMO.
Olive greenish color matching on both sides *****
Amazing strike, *****
beard detail
Full O in one
Crisp bow tie
Full wheat lines
Apparent luster
Folks have been trained to dislike spots, prob from hearing dealers bring it up when selling. These are not even a close to being a problem. If you don't like spots that big "toning dots", dang it, you don't like (copper) coins, IMO. It's called character. Strike and color carry this coin into who cares zone.
There are a few ticks, but nobody says anything about that, cause it doesn't matter either. We know you can get a hit like that from dropping another cent on it from 3 inches away. Big deal!
Yes beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to me the others posted, although neat in their own right, aren't in the same category. Anyone here not own this coin because of the spot raise their hand. This coin will prob and should trade directly between collectors that appreciate this look and never see the cross case traffic of dealer trading.
That's my coin, had it for sale here and on EBay but pulled both because just tonight I discovered it is one of the much more rare die pair #2!
http://www.ebay.com/sch/rs8199/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
I like your coin and would give it a 9. I have one I crossed from NGC that is decent.
I enjoy toned Lincolns, and I give the OP's 1909 an 8+.
Nice coin.
I am a conservative grader. I don't like spotting on copper. It is a coin I would not personally buy as a 66. I still rate it as a 5 on a 10 point scale.
Not being a big copper fan to begin with. I still think the OP coin is a well preserved, well struck, has decent color. I would give it (when comparing it to other like graded 09s) an 8, the spotting definitely does distract and minuses a point imo.
But good thing we don't have to grade on a 10 point scale. It's a 65 in real world grading.
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Well, one 5, one 7, and the rest 8,9,10's. Looks like the OP has a winner. As for spots, I usually don't grade a Lincoln cent with spots over MS-64; however when it is as attractive as this is with eye appeal, strike, color, luster, no marks or HLNS near the top of the MS grade ranges...I'm going to be looking for a new instructor.
As I wrote once before, When a professional numismatist makes up their mind about something, they will rarely budge off that opinion. I think it's a "man" thing.
I love it!! I'd easily go 9 on it. I don't think the 1909 non VDB's get the love they deserve.
Here's my 66RB. I showed it off in the "Show your coin that you knew you would buy the second you saw it" thread.
well in a 70 point scale I'd think 66 so in a 10 point I guess 9.42
I would say around a 7. The color and luster are very nice.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
5
A solid 8.
A beautiful coin, and superb example- 9.
I am big believer in consensus. Consensus is rarely wrong. So I got 28 scores. They were: 9, 8.5, 5, 10, 10, 9, 9, 9.859, 9, 8, 9, 9.65, 8, 9, 9, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9, 8, 5, 9, 9.42, 7, 5, 8, 9. That sums to 231.429. Dividing by 28, I get ...
Consensus Score = 8.26
Not bad! Thanks for the input.
I personally would have scored this a 9 out of 10. So the 8.26 consensus is just about right in line with my opinion. It's definitely not a perfect coin, but darn high on the scale.
Of course "eye appeal" is a very subjective topic and nobody's opinion is wrong -- they are just personal opinions -- free to all!
Some things I love about this coin:
fantastic "visibility" -- this is a quality I came up with on my own (I havent heard many or any ever talk about this). It's when the toning makes a coins design and detail more visible or easy to discern. Look at Lincolns eye, nose, mouth, and beard area -- it's so sharp and detailed. Compare the "visibility" of the coin I posted in the OP with the other business strike examples posted (we have to throw out the Matte Proof as that's a whole other animal)
the original luster is outrageous, kind of rare on a 1909. I had a Lincoln expert of mine describe original luster as giving a bit of a "peach fuzz" look. I thought that was an interesting way to describe original lustrous surfaces.
the color is fantastic. Hard to beat that green, gold, red combination in terms of eye appeal. The color transitions are pretty smooth which is what takes the "visibility" of the OP coin off the charts (IMHO).
very well struck. relatively sharp hair beard and wheat ear details.
The touches of "elevation chromatics" with the toning pattern is the cat's pajamas in the toning world. It's when colors are different on different "elevations" of a coins design. This also tends to enhance visibility as it provides contrast to elements of the design (See Lincolns Hair and the Wheat Ears). This effect is rare of copper, you tend to see elevation chromatics on large silver coins (esp morgans)
The fact this is a 1909 and not a 1909 vdb makes it a rarity in terms of eye appeal (imho). The 1909's are infinitely harder to find eye appealing than the more heavily saved and preserved vdb. The 1909 was generally forgotten for decades so it's hard finding pretty examples.
Some of the distractions:
very light spotting. the worst spot for me is the one below the date on the obverse, as it's in a focal area (an area you tend to look at, all our eyes tend to be drawn to the date first). On the upside, the spots are all brown or red NOT BLACK! Black carbon spots are a deal breaker for me in most cases. Brown spots arent as annoying or distressing to me. The larger spots on the reverse are probably related to the toning as they are in the same color family as the toning they are larger and but softer since they dont contrast very much with the toning around them.
Someone mentioned a fingerprint behind Lincolns Head. I have some doubts it's a partial print as I've look at this with my scope and the lines are straight and parallel, and not curved (fingerprints have whirls in them). The parallel lines run from about 11 o'clock to 5 o'clock on the face. I think this might be some sort of effect related to the toning. Perhaps the alloy streaked a bit in this region due to improper mixing (?) and the toning affected the striations of alloy a bit differently. The colors do seem to blend in and coordinate with the red toning in Lincolns hair, so I am about 90% (hard to be 100% sure of anything in coins) sure this is not a partial print, but a toning pattern. Here is a zoom ... (amazing how when you zoom really old biz strikes you see all the flaws! sort of like if you zoomed on a supermodel's face down to the pore level -- not a pretty sight -- LOL)
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I was the someone who mentioned the partial fingerprint and I stand by that opinion.
A partial print need not have all the characteristics of an intact print and, thus, the lines in the toning left from the oils do not have to have curves within them. We can disagree with what the lines are from all we want, which is similar to determining how many fairies can stand on the head of a pin, but the likely explanation for the affect from this chair is a partial print.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I would give it a 9 easy! Those spots are really blown up when your penny pic is blown up to the size of about 20 penny pics, bet they are much less obvious in hand.
10-4,
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This is my BEVY of 1909 Lincolns. I am always on the lookout for the most eye appealing examples I can find. It's interesting seeing the full spectrum from 1909 vdb to 1909-S vdb to 1909 to 1909-s.
I love my 2 1909 vdb's. No complaints. I think the MS65BN 1909 vdb is undergraded by a point and should be MS66BN (imho).
My 1909-s vdb came from a renounced Lincoln collector, too expensive to strive for better. Happy with this one. I think it's close to MS65BN.
The 1909 is a cheap slot but I've had a hard time finding an eye appealing one. I have 5 currently from my continual 5 year question to find the best 1909 I could. And I am finally pleased with my current #1 at the top! Funny my former #1 in that slot was not the highest graded, but the lowest -- the MS64BN for the cool color.
Now my real nemesis has been the 1909-S ... OMG does this date tend to come UGLY! My current and only 1909-S got an MS65BN grade, but to me it's so homely, I would have given it an MS62BN. I just cannot find a pretty 1909-S! I cannot figure out how my 1909-S graded so high? MS65BN just seems like a huge stretch.
It's cool seeing all of my 1909's together like this ... grades noted above each coin. I think it shows the importance of luster in grades. The best luster coin is the MS66RB 1909. Right behind that are the two MS65 1909 vdb's -- both very nice.
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It's certainly fun to conjecture about! I dont know the answer to 100% certainly. Sometimes I wish coins could talk and tell us the answer.
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9 for me. Nice!
Nice cent... I would give it an 8.....no flamboyant tarnish, good surface, yes, spots... the spot below the date is almost where a mm should be.... The slab grade is fair as well... Cheers, RickO