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When great coins get dipped....

BodinBodin Posts: 996 ✭✭✭

Sold this coin a few years ago. I kept thinking that maybe it was undergraded.
I looked it up on coinfacts. Was a 64,
now a 64 but BLAST WHITE.
Credit where credit is due: the coin has a new cert and the original cert and coinfacts photo have been deleted. kudos to both parties for tying to keep the populations under some control.

Which version do you prefer?



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Comments

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    Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Too bad the doctors got to this one....now just another ugly coin. Bummer.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
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    panexpoguypanexpoguy Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Darn shame. The original color was great.

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    dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow.

    I get dipping, and I've done it. But why did they dip THAT??

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    kazkaz Posts: 9,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sigh. :'(

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    jedmjedm Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I prefer the one with a bit of toning, without a doubt.

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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭✭✭

    bummer

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    WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Obviously the original skin..Nothing wrong at all with it as far as I am concern.

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
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    Sandman70gtSandman70gt Posts: 979 ✭✭✭✭✭

    :(
    original surfaces please. You can't put 100 or more years of patina back on!

    Still a good looking coin, but liked it better before.

    Bst transactions with: dimeman, oih82w8, mercurydimeguy, dunerlaw, Lakesammman, 2ltdjorn, MattTheRiley, dpvilla, drddm, CommemKing, Relaxn, Yorkshireman, Cucamongacoin, jtlee321, greencopper, coin22lover, coinfolio, lindedad, spummybum, Leeroybrown, flackthat, BryceM, Surfinxhi, VanHalen, astrorat, robkool, Wingsrule, PennyGuy, al410, Ilikecolor, Southcounty, Namvet69, Commemdude, oreville, Leebone

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    chumleychumley Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭

    nice looking coin but it lost a lot of character in the dip

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    jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭

    I doubt the newly dipped one could be beaned :wink:

    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
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    bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like either colorful toning or blast white with original luster. If there is nothing more than earth toned colors on coin, as in the OP, dip that mutha!

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,077 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Toning can give depth and body to a coin. There have been some stellar snafus in dipped out jobs like the Jack Lee dollar. And the last few times I asked numismatic conservation to do their work on certified coins, they said no dice. I guess it depends how much $$$ there is in it for them.

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    KoveKove Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭✭

    Grants are luster-challenged to begin with. Why would someone dip an attractively toned coin? Ugh.

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    shishshish Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's unfortunate that coins with original skin are getting rarer every day.

    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
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    FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kove said:
    Grants are luster-challenged to begin with. Why would someone dip an attractively toned coin? Ugh.

    Greed.
    I'd guess they were trying for a 65 and a $2000+ payday.

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    No HeadlightsNo Headlights Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Leave original coins alone. The first dip leads to ugly toning from the rims in many times. Then it gets dipped again so it’s again blast white (not a term of endearment for coins in my book). Then soon it’s just another headlight. If you want a headlight buy a headlight. Leave the original stuff for those that appreciate it.

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    Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the original. Not following the coinfacts story. The original is in an NGC holder and would not have been in coinfacts.

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    23Pairer23Pairer Posts: 911 ✭✭✭

    OOOhhriginal , please!

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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not the dull, white, lifeless example.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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    KccoinKccoin Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not a fan of the dipper

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    BodinBodin Posts: 996 ✭✭✭

    @Wabbit2313 said:
    I like the original. Not following the coinfacts story. The original is in an NGC holder and would not have been in coinfacts.

    Sorry, I forgot to explain that part. It was never in an NGC holder. I used the prongs so I could get an upright photo. I don't have a copy stand. After photography, it was sent to our hosts.
    This coin was originally in an old ANACS photograde(or something like that) graded 60/60. I sent it to pcgs and it graded MS64.

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    CoinCrazyPACoinCrazyPA Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭✭

    Call me crazy, I like both of them.

    Positive BST transactions: agentjim007, cohodk, CharlieC, Chrischampeon, DRG, 3 x delistamps, djdilliodon, gmherps13, jmski52, Meltdown, Mesquite, 2 x nibanny, themaster, 2 x segoja, Timbuk3, ve3rules, jom, Blackhawk, hchcoin, Relaxn, pitboss, blu62vette, Jfoot13, Jinx86, jfoot13,Ronb

    Successful Trades: Swampboy,
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    Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bodin said:

    @Wabbit2313 said:
    I like the original. Not following the coinfacts story. The original is in an NGC holder and would not have been in coinfacts.

    Sorry, I forgot to explain that part. It was never in an NGC holder. I used the prongs so I could get an upright photo. I don't have a copy stand. After photography, it was sent to our hosts.
    This coin was originally in an old ANACS photograde(or something like that) graded 60/60. I sent it to pcgs and it graded MS64.

    My favorite old grading vehicle, the Anacs photo cert's. I own a bunch of those. I missed out on the coolest one I ever saw though. It was a Morgan graded 67/67. I could not tell from the images what the coin looked like, but it had to be amazing.

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    CommemDudeCommemDude Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Once dipped, this coin lost its personality and joined the multitude of dipped widgets out there...
    Fifteen years ago it took time and patience to assemble a set of 50 commems....today you can assemble ten white sets from ebay and heritage in a few days.

    Dr Mikey
    Commems and Early Type
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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭✭✭

    People are bemoaning this dip but pay up for all the white/treated coins in maxed out plastic. Your (as a collective) actions don’t match your words.

    Also you say why would you ever dip and nice 64(+) but they need to think like their dinner rides on it

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    specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    if done right, dipping will make a blotchy bad coin look better and more marketable. Some folks just love white and shiny coins

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    LeeBoneLeeBone Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Number 1 for me.

    For years I would search out only "White" coins for my collection. While I still do like them, I have grown to appreciate naturally toned beauties even more. Gives the coin character, and makes it stand out as not just "One of the Guys."

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    panexpoguypanexpoguy Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CommemDude said:
    Once dipped, this coin lost its personality and joined the multitude of dipped widgets out there...
    Fifteen years ago it took time and patience to assemble a set of 50 commems....today you can assemble ten white sets from ebay and heritage in a few days.

    I agree. While the lighting certainly helped the first image, the toning allowed the coin to acquire depth which really brought out the detail.

    Also, on a bit of a tangent, I see originality bypassing dipped white as the preferred coin in the future. I say this after having watched the collector car industry for some time. For decades the complete rotisserie restoration brought he big bucks. Now I see huge money going after barn finds that are as original as can be and either totally, or minimally, restored. I think folks realize that you can dip and re-tone coins over and over but it can only be original once.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    While I am not a fan of tarnish, in this case, I prefer the coin pre-dip..... The slight tarnish was not excessive or ugly or flamboyant.... Cheers, RickO

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    OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Destroyed by dipping. I prefer au natural.

    The dipping accentuated the polishing marks and ruined the natural beauty.

    Cheers

    Bob

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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dpoole said:
    Wow.

    I get dipping, and I've done it. But why did they dip THAT??

    Apparently to make it great again!

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,547 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Idiots!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Basically, I would bid on the 1st and never bid on the second.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely prefer the original coin before the dipping. :(

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dave99B said: "Too bad the doctors got to this one....now just another ugly coin. Bummer."

    IMHO, this coin was NOT "doctored." It was dipped to make it "white." A true coin doctor would have added a light transparent skin. There is a difference between professional conservation, dipping a coin, and an alteration by an "expert" coin doctor that defies detection and is market acceptable (at least for a time) .

    @CommemDude said: "Once dipped, this coin lost its personality and joined the multitude of dipped widgets out there... Fifteen years ago it took time and patience to assemble a set of 50 commems....today you can assemble ten white sets from ebay and heritage in a few days."

    While you are correct about the number of dipped widgets, I disagree about how easy you can find truly original MS commemorative coins.

    @Outhaul said: "Destroyed by dipping. I prefer au natural. The dipping accentuated the polishing marks and ruined the natural beauty."

    I prefer the toned coin. However, IMO, saying this coin "destroyed" is a little melodramatic. Beauty is a personal thing. Many collectors do not like any color on their coins. Some even tell us constantly that toning is simply a form of corrosion.

    I don't have the coin in hand but I do know this, if a true MS coin is properly dipped, no one can tell EXCEPT for those who love to say that "any blast white old coin has been dipped." LOL, they are usually correct. :wink:

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    what a pisser. i liked it better before it was dipped

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    goldengolden Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a shame,what a shame.

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    Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMHO, this coin WAS doctored. Very sad, as it WAS quite nice. I wish people would sell the coin, rather than dink with it, and attempt to 'improve' it. What a waste.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dave99B

    Thank you for your disagreement. I wish you would have taken a little more time to explain it. :(

    You see, I disagreed with your comment and explained why. Then I tried to give you some insight into other possibilities. Then I did the "human" thing, retaliated :blush: and gave you a "disagreement!" >:)

    It made me feel good and was especially fun! However, "Homie" is above that so I'll leave you with your opinion. :)

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    jerseycat101jerseycat101 Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:
    People are bemoaning this dip but pay up for all the white/treated coins in maxed out plastic. Your (as a collective) actions don’t match your words.

    Also you say why would you ever dip and nice 64(+) but they need to think like their dinner rides on it

    Painting with a broad brush there. I don't "pay up" for white/treated coins that have been obviously altered.

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    Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 Please Google 'opinion'. I think you will have your answer.

    Thanks, Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder how many of us have bought a "doctored" coin? I wonder how many "coin doctor" members here have fraudulently altered a coin by dipping it?

    I'll go first. My "handle" is Insider2, and I am a coin doctor. :blush: I need help! I need to start a new discussion as a cry for help.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dave99B

    Everyone here has an "opinion." You know the "joke."

    I disagree with many of them. You may not be aware of how this place works as each time you disagree with someone they lose a point. In my case, I'm going for the all time distinction of being the most disagreeable member here! So far so good.

    Anyway, rather than post my "disagreement" to nonsense or to those I consider to be uninformed (in my opinion) I prefer to give a reason to back up any disagreement I have with a post. I wish others followed this example. IMO, It would lead to more informed members. That's a good thing, no?

    PS I should be very interested in your personal opinion in my new discussion about coin doctors. I'll watch for it. :wink:

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    ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,416 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:
    People are bemoaning this dip but pay up for all the white/treated coins in maxed out plastic. Your (as a collective) actions don’t match your words.

    Also you say why would you ever dip and nice 64(+) but they need to think like their dinner rides on it

    After eight years, I got my Heraldic Eagle Bust Dollar in AU. It's an AU 53 with original skin. The dealer who got the coin knew I was looking for one of them, and sold it to me precisely because he knew I wanted one with original skin (not many around) and didn't want to see it ruined.
    If it were bright white and dipped, I could see it grade AU 55, which is a significant price increment for the coin. But I'm not going there because it would ruin the coin.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
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    KoveKove Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭✭

    @Elcontador said:
    If it were bright white and dipped, I could see it grade AU 55, which is a significant price increment for the coin. But I'm not going there because it would ruin the coin.

    This is exactly the problem. The TPGs reward dipping (or it's widely assumed they do, which encourages the practice).

    If they punish an original coin by grading it 53, and reward a dipped coin with a 55, what do they think is going to happen???

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