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PCGS cross over?- At what grade?

NumivenNumiven Posts: 377 ✭✭✭
edited September 17, 2017 7:21PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I wants this in a PCGS or NGC holder, so I am planning to send it in for grading. This is one of the rarer coins in my collection.

  1. I understand that this might not be PCGS 55, but what would be the possible grade from PCGS?
  2. NGC possibilities?
  3. Should I crack out or send it in the ICG holder?
  4. I am afraid, I might get some details grade (as it's an expensive coin), does your experienced eyes show any signs?
  5. Or should I just keep it as it is...

Thanks for the time!

Numismatics & Photography
rv@ravenumismatics.com
Instagram.com/coin2photo

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    BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,304 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Something to think about....

    What do YOU value the coin at (ignore the grade) and what do OTHERS VALUE the coin at (ignore the grade)?

    Reason I ask it that way is that it may help you if you do decide to cross and to put in a lower grade (ie.....is the coin valued at the same price as a PCGS AU50 or XF40 would be?) If so, then that would be the minimum grade I would put on a crossover.

    If you paid AU55 money for it (ie...same as PCGS AU55 money), then are you willing to have it valued less, but in a more liquid holder?

    I refrain from putting a guess in on what I think it would grade, due to not being a gold person, but I don't think it is AU55...I think definitely a lower grade....and I can't tell, from the pics, if there is anything that may preclude a PCGS grade....I am sure others will chime in, but I can't tell if there is anything that was put on the coin or any tooling/etc from the pics on my monitor.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

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    BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,304 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Btw....I would definitely NOT crack out an expensive coin that would hurt me coming back in a details grade holder....I would send it in in the current plastic (so, I believe that takes NGC out of the picture for a crossover)

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

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    OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can send it to PCGS for crossover at a minimum grade that you specify. You could send it in to cross at a minimum grade of 55, but from your pics, I see way too much rub for a 55. Realistically, a minimum of 45 might be a good submittal. Do NOT crack and send in RAW.

    OINK

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2017 8:29PM

    My first thought was AU50, but a lot of what has been attributed to wear could be due to strike. There is no way I would rule out a details grade without seeing it in hand. Most early gold, including those straight graded, have been cleaned at some point.

    I would never, ever crack a coin like this especially when you have it in a straight graded holder from a top 4 TPG. I would submit it as a crossover to PCGS with a minimum grade of XF45. NGC would not even be on my radar insofar as 1) PCGS coins will command a premium and 2) NGC requires you to agree to crack the coin before it is graded with no guarantees that it will cross. I would probably submit this as a walk through. If you are not happy with the grade, you could always have it regraded and be protected by the PCGS guarantee.

    FYI - Harry Laibstain offers the walk through service for $89/coin + all of the handling and shipping fees. If it were mine, I would go that route.
    http://www.hlrc.com/Home/Services

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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cross it at "any" grade. The results will likely be conservative. If you think so, once it is in PCGS plastic have it "regraded" so graders will see it raw and not have any worries about hidden surprises. Your original crossed grade will be guaranteed so there is no downside. This will get you the best assessment.
    Lance.

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    mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some very good advice has been dispensed by the above posters.
    If you are not planning on selling the coin, I would just leave it as is.

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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,873 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hi, the coin appears to have been chemically lightened and I would 100% keep it in the current holder. It is worth a try at a crossover, at any grade, to see if you can get it in PCGS plastic. From there you can try and regrade again and potentially upgrade. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they do not holder it, even at any grade, in a crossover. Sorry for the bluntness....that said, I've seen worse in both companies holders.

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    skier07skier07 Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Send the coin to PCGS as a crossover at any grade. On a good day it'll come back as a 45 +. On a bad day you'll be out $40 and the coin will be in its original holder. Do not crack it out. Good luck.

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    CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with much that's been noted here already. I see a coin that appears to have XF45 obverse wear and AU 50 reverse wear, keeping in mind the reverse was nearly always weakly struck. The detail in the eagle's wings, tail feathers and other areas sing AU, but the overall wear on the obverse will likely push the grade down to XF45. As also noted, the coin appears to have been dipped - perhaps it's the photos, but the color and some contrast near field elements lead me to believe it's been chemically treated, but not overboard harsh. Keep it in its holder and submit as a cross at any grade, or at least a minimum XF45 grade.

    'dude

    Got Crust....y gold?
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This coin is definitely not an AU-55. It has a combination of a weak strike and far more wear than an AU-55 should have. The color appears to have been lightened with a chemical, and I am concerned about the dark areas above the “L” and between the “I” and “B” in “LIBERTY.” I hope that those are not the remnants of a former mounting for jewelry use.

    I think that the best grade you could hope for in a crossover would be an EF-45. The worst you could get would be EF sharpness with a details grade because of cleaning or a former mounting.

    If I were looking for a type coin in a PCGS holder, I’d consider starting from scratch and buying another piece. The type is not rare, but it is expensive.

    I know I’ve been negative about the piece, and I might think better of it if I saw it in person. It’s just that the piece appears have issues that ICG chose not to address.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great advice given above.... Let me add.. if you are planning to sell this coin, then you should follow the advice above... if you are not going to sell, then I would keep it as is...Cheers, RickO

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you decide to submit this, please let us know what PCGS says.

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    Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it will be worth more in the AU55 holder than a PCGS XF holder. I would leave as is myself.

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Wabbit2313 said:
    I think it will be worth more in the AU55 holder than a PCGS XF holder. I would leave as is myself.

    This is one of the times when I think the price guide is reasonably accurate. Guide for PCGS XF45 is $11,750. Guide for AU55 is $19,500. No one is going to pay PCGS AU55 money for it in the ICG holder, and it would probably be closer to PCGS XF45 value especially when you count for lost liquidity. Many early gold buyers wouldn't touch it in the ICG holder.

    With this said, your reasoning is also the reason that I said I would set the coin to cross at a minimum grade of XF45 rather than to cross at any straight grade. I think it would be worth more in an ICG AU55 holder than it would in PCGS XF40 or below.

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    NumivenNumiven Posts: 377 ✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2017 12:08PM

    Thanks for the responses! Appreciate it.

    I did not pay PCGS 55 Money for this, thats why I am thinking about converting it to PCGS to retain value and make it market acceptable.

    But even If I get a PCGS53 (best case), I might only see 80% of auction price (selling) which is all over the place from 12k to 20k, which is a wide margin....

    Numismatics & Photography
    rv@ravenumismatics.com
    Instagram.com/coin2photo

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    tommy44tommy44 Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would submit it as-is for crossover with at a XF45 minimum. Considering the value of the coin and depending on how much you have invested already what do you have to lose for another $40 or $50. If it comes back a 45 as stated above you can always try for a regrade. Billjones may have a point about it having been mounted, do you have photos of it raw?

    I love your expert photos by the way.

    it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

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    The coin is what it is so I would leave it alone. Collectors that focus on this type of coin are probably going to pay what they think it is worth.

    If I were sending it in I would stipulate that it cross at same grade but I do not think it will.

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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,596 ✭✭✭✭✭

    keep it as is.

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