Have you ever bought a counterfeit coin?
Insider2
Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
Don't be shy. I have the best, most embarrassing story ever but I will not share it unless this thread gets's lots of posts. I've been told not to tell stories about myself as it will ruin my rep. LOL. I'll need to get one first in order to ruin it.
4
Comments
Quick, think of another topic
Thanks Zoins! Hope I picked an interesting one.
Absolutely...I've been shellacked with more than one fake EAC piece.
Not yet... At least not that I know of and 99.9% of my coins are certified (or were before cracking them out).
Ouch. Were these graded by EAC members?
Yes. On purpose - they can be highly collectible.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
Not that I know of. I made a bid on a 1861 CSA half dollar counterfeit which I thought was contemporary but then found out it may have been from the 1960s/70s which lowered my interest in it.
I was 10. It was a 1776 continental dollar. I didn't know it, I wanted it because I knew about July 4, 1776 and that coin was the oldest coin in the store. Turns out it was a lead copy.
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
Only on purpose.
Yes, of course. That's part of the learning process.
Not that I know of.
...absolutely I have...and not on purpose...maybe 5 years ago I thought I got a nice little rip off eBay from a mom and pop dollar general type. I paid about melt for some silver quarters and bullion, and there was a 1901 Morgan in Circ condition that the reverse had an S mm...so I purchase and I even started a thread about it on CT showing off my rip...immediately 'Bust Half Brian' I think, told me that the pics didn't look good...a day later I got the envelope with all the coins taped to a single sheet of printer paper folded in half. I got had and then got put up on "game" by a YN in front of everyone...I didn't like it much at the time, but it didn't kill me...which means it only made me stronger
... @insider2 just to keep your thread going I will check over at CT and see if I can find the thread and link it here...the Photobucket racket may have the pictures from it all but gone, but that's how I got ripped
Edit: LOL at myself back then...I got ripped even before I got ripped and all while thinking I was the one doing the ripping
Here is link to thread, my memory was only correct about a few things https://www.cointalk.com/threads/two-small-picks-off-ebay-tonight.229049/page-2
Pictures of fakes
...that was fun right there...hating on myself for you guys is fun
Double sided circulated Peace $... Dated 1925. Bought it as a kool novelty trick coin. Feels just like a real dollar, non-magnetic, and it even weighs the same at 26.3 g
I used to collect US gold coins back when all coins were raw. When anacs came along I sent them in and a couple came back in "body bags" labeled "not genuine". I got my money back from the dealers who sold me the coins. These were good dealers who I knew quite well so I assume they were also fooled. If it weren't for the third party certification services I probably would have stopped collecting coins. They really cleaned up the hobby.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Sure did
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too bad there are now counterfeit slabs also
Yes.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
The very first gold coin I purchased pre-slab days was counterfeit. I paid a premium for it at the time. Thankfully it was actually made out of gold and I got my money back when the price of gold started going up. I didn't buy another gold coin for the next twenty years after that.
Joe.
I can't imagine a collector or dealer that hasn't bought a fake in their life. I suppose if a body only buys certified stuff......
Years ago, 1977, we had a local dealer schleping Lebanese 2 1/2 Indians....He would put 2 into his showcase at a time. I went into his store and inquired a price. Recognizing that there was 20 dollars left in each coin, I bought a pair. Sold them to a dealer friend the next day. Meanwhile, this deal went down while I was out at lunch time. On my desk, at work, I had a Microscope with a camera attached. I just happened to take pictures of the coins and lay them aside on my desk. I went back to that shop the following week, and sure enough, two more Indians in the case. They were the same price and I bought them. I sold them to the same guy later that week. Also happened to take pictures and set them aside.
Weeks later, I start looking at those pictures. Two of the coins were dated 1912. I had the pix side by side.....wait a minute.....There's a little tick here......and here in the other photo. There's a tiny bump here......AND here......Oh no !
I call the dealer I had been selling to and set up a meeting. I'm feeling like poop.....scrape my money together for a buy-back.....I meet with the guy and show him the pictures. He just shrugs and tells me the coins are long gone. He wouldn't even know who has them. "Don't worry about it, they're gold"......
I head back to that shop and the owner gets nervous when I come in. He quickly pulls out two Indians from the showcase and hustles them into his safe. I read him the riot act, and rip him a new one. Oddly enough, the guy dies a couple of months later. Karma, I guess......but, boy, did I learn about 2 1/2 Indians.
Of course, this was all pre-internet and pre-slabbing. All we had was ANA photo certs. I'm not even sure if they were grading then or just authenticating.
Even with what we have to safeguard today, you still have to be careful with all the Asian stuff that's out there......
I have bought three that I know of. The first was a 3 cent silver. I knew it was a contemporary counterfeit. The second was a $1 gold piece. It taught me to be really careful with gold. I should have saved it but I gave it back to the dealer. The third was a Panama-Pacific 50 cent Comm. I fell in love with the toning but was too stupid to see the coin for what it was. I saved the coin as a lesson learned.
i have never bought one before
COINS FOR SALE, IN LINK BELOW
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KCJYQg9x5sPJiCBc9
I have bought a couple of fake Trade $'s that fooled me.
Over 58 years of collecting, the answer is yes.
I have owned and returned a fake $20 gold piece and an 1798 dime. The dime was sold by Bowers and Merrena in one of their aucitons. I bought from the dealer who purchased it there. A customer sent it to ANACS where it flunked. **Much to their credit, Bowers and Merrena made good on the coin although the sale was from a year before. **
It was a darn good fake. It got through Bowers, the dealer from whom I purchased it and me. I finally say what was wrong with it (uneven surfaces) when I looked at it with a 10X glass for a few minutes. The piece graded Fine-15 or so, and was a very well done copy of the real thing. The dealer from whom I purcased it still was not conviced that it was bad.
Heck yes. Several fake trade dollars; one was in a fake anacs OWH; another well made forgery from an inherited collection (I honestly think the seller believed it was real); another looked like a rare die pairing. I've used them to illustrate my thread on fake trade dollars over at CT.
Not on purpose
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Yes , one that I know of was an 1837 half dollar in good for $20 back in '03. I noticed that the reverse had the "half dollar" denomination; but should have read "50 cents". Of course I was very much a newbie and bought without any knowledge beforehand. When I looked in the Redbook and didn't see that variety I thought I really had something! But in reality I got lucky because I sold it about a year later to someone that knew what it was and made a little off my mistake. Now I wish I would have kept it, but the guy I sold it to may have a nice collection of these, who knows?
My most embarrassing was a purchase from a good customer who needed money for some medical issues. He was a picky buyer and never dreamed he would have a counterfeit in his set of Barber Quarters! Long story short I sold the 96-S to a customer. The next month he brought it back with the results from an attempt to have it graded. All I had to do was turn it over and it jumped right out at me! A VG coin with an XF mintmark! I stll have that coin.
The most perplexing was 4 or 5 years ago. A nice original F-VF 1872-cc dime! All the big seated dealers confirmed it was real at the Baltimore show. I sold it to another dealer at the show who did a walk through with PCGS and it came back not genuine! A part of me still thinks the coin was real but the dealer I bought it from sent it in to NGC and ANACS after that with the same results. I to this day would love to know the pickup points to determine it was counterfeit. It even had the proper coarse reeding!
I buy counterfeits on purpose whenever I can, contemporary counterfeits that is. The only time I have been taken was in Hamburg Germany I bought a 1910 20 Mark coin that turned out to be a forgery. It is gold and the correct weight but no 20 Marks were minted in Hamburg in 1910.
Yes, I saw a 1902 CC Morgan in an antique shop..... since I completed a CC set some years ago, I realized immediately that it had to be fake - since there were no 1902 CC's minted. I purchased it, and registered it on the counterfeit site (cannot recall the name right now). It is well done, but careful examination will show PUP's ... Cheers, RickO
Over about 60 years of collecting, you betcha.
Two foreign gold, a Iran 2 1/2 Pahlavi and Turkey 500 Kurush; one US 1908-D $5 Indian. All three purchased from dealers in the 1970s and identified by our friends ATS when I submitted them for certification. Good news is they were gold and I sold them as scrap for 98% of the much higher gold price a couple of years ago.
You have to remember that prior to the mid-80s, or even later, most coins were raw, especially common date US gold. I feel fortunate that of the hundreds of US gold coins I purchased "back in the day" only one of them was counterfeit.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
I wrote out a better response and this posting system promptly ate it.
Six coins in all the time since 1975. Three gold, one silver, two bronze. Luckily, net losses just $265 and one PCGS grading fee. Most of that total came from one gold coin that I thought I was gonna cut a fat hog on. Greed.
I'm sure many collectors are saying the same thing just as I'm sure that many are wrong.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Only one on purpose. It was a good looking Mexico 8 reales. PCHS said it was counterfeit. I'm mean it looked good. Got my money back from the dealer.
I purchased a couple other counterfeits on purpose just to have a few examples.
Yes, A copper russian kopek piece in the late 90's. I thought is was a great looking coin. Put it on Ebay. At that time on Ebay you could see and talk to all bidders and buyers etc... I was notified by a Russian Copper expert that is was in his words.."bad"... I removed the listing and got flak for that from the many bidders who had already bid on it. Calling me a crook, "somebody made you an offer and you took it...chicken.." etc...I went to the dealer I bought it from at the next coin show many months later and he refunded my money.
I bought these for $5-$10 each. I've run into enough cheap, interesting counterfeits, I ended up casually collecting them
I have a sizable collection of contemporary counterfeit coins (mostly 19th century U.S.) - very little paper money. This is an exceptionally interesting area of numismatics, and an even more important part of U.S. history that most collectors are afraid to get involved in or study.
There is a big market for contemporary fake 8 Reales by knowledgeable collectors. Many were even published by Dr. Riddel (sp?) near the turn of the century. One contemporary newspaper account links some counterfeit 8 Reales to the same folks who produced the counterfeit "Micro O" Morgan dollars!
The guys who write the books and do the research claim that many 8 Reales have been passed as genuine in the marketplace and even slabbed. I know this to be true. The researchers have analyzed the alloys in many of the fakes. There is a book to be published on the Cap & Ray coins to go with the Portrait coins.
PS Next week, I'll embarrass myself with my story. Until then, I know of several instances where a professional coin dealer has placed genuine coins in their "black collections!"
PPS Additionally, with the quality of the state-of-the-art counterfeits of today, no one should be embarrassed if they get fooled on occasion.
When I first got into collecting, I bought a counterfeit 1877 IHC. It was a little old lady dealer and family friend and she refused to make good on it. I let it go as I didn't want to call the cops, with the family history...today I would have called them. I do still have it somewhere.
Funny, my one (relatively) big counterfeit coin loss came from a little old widow lady coin dealer. I know that she truly thought it was the real deal, and because of the passage of time, I never mentioned it to her.
Several different die states of the same contemporary counterfeit 3 cent silvers...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
On the collecting side, probably not. I almost always buy my own collection pieces slabbed by PCGS or NGC, and always verify with the TPG. The very few really good raw pieces I've gotten for my personal collection, I've gotten from reputable dealers and tend to be pieces unlikely to be faked. And I have them slabbed shortly thereafter.
But on the investment / resale side? Sure! Absolutely! No risk, no reward. Sometimes you put your big boy pants on and ante up. You bring your decades of experience to bear and weigh the outcomes. You know what? I LIVE for it. It's one of the main reasons this hobby is so exciting and interesting.
--Severian the Lame
Yes. I collect the contemporary ones.
1891-cc half eagle
Thankfully the seller made it right after discovery.
Yes, and the few times is has happened have not made me happy; a $20 gold coin, a few smaller gold coins, and a contemporary counterfeit Bust 50c.
An interesting moral/ethical question involving a 1926-S 10c ANACS MS65(FB). McDonald's Bands.
I purchased this coin from my first mentor and subsequent first boss (Bob Rose of Renrob) the first month (9/79) I went to work for him. IIRC they (he and Ron Iskowitz) bought it from Stacks inventory for $2000 and sold it to me at insider's (wholesale code minus 10%) quote of about $4000.
A year later, now on my own, they get back to me and sell it to a retail customer paying me $5500.
Several years later, I am contacted by one of the owners, who always ran that retail account, telling me that the coin, despite the ANACS certificate, has been reexamined and is now considered to have an added mintmark.
This specific point was noted (verbally) by seminal Merc 10c maven/guru Harold Kritzman in examining the coin prior to my purchase. Full disclosure by Renrob followed by "Look, Rick, you're not calling me because I'm an idiot. I would have bought it myself from Stacks if it were real. Those bands are "P"-mint".
I am asked if I am willing to reimburse them my $1500 profit from the entire subsequent retail price he has ethically eaten.
30+ years later, I am still unsatisfied by the nature and shading of the denouement. Nor will I ever be.
Knowingly attempting to hijack this thread.... any thoughts?
Yes,as a young collector. Ripped off on,one of each, 32-d and 32-s Wash. quarters. Bought through a Coin World ad in early 70's. Both at the same time from the same dealer. There is more to the story which I will share sometime in a separate thread.
I wanted to update my 20 cent piece in the type set. There was one in an auction I attended, but it had been dipped AU and was porous or corroded. I voted to pass the coin. BUT when the bidding started, it stalled at $100 and was worth at least twice that so I jumped in and bought it since it would represent an update for me, though on only a temporary basis.
When I looked at the coin again, I said to myself, "why'd you buy this pos". Two dealer friends confirmed what I feared, it was a fake. I contacted the auctioneers and they said to return it for full refund, so it all worked out. Impulse buys can burn you however!
Pete
Louis Armstrong
Back about 1970 I bought 20 gold coins from a dealer's ad in the CDN. 15 of them were bad. I did get my money back. He never advertised gold coins again.
Yes, intentionally. Camden nickel.
ditto
BHNC #203