@logger7 said:
Yes, and the few times is has happened have not made me happy; a $20 gold coin, a few smaller gold coins, and a contemporary counterfeit Bust 50c.
@ColonelJessup said:
An interesting moral/ethical question involving a 1926-S 10c ANACS MS65(FB). McDonald's Bands.
I purchased this coin from my first mentor and subsequent first boss (Bob Rose of Renrob) the first month (9/79) I went to work for him. IIRC they (he and Ron Iskowitz) bought it from Stacks inventory for $2000 and sold it to me at insider's (wholesale code minus 10%) quote of about $4000.
A year later, now on my own, they get back to me and sell it to a retail customer paying me $5500.
Several years later, I am contacted by one of the owners, who always ran that retail account, telling me that the coin, despite the ANACS certificate, has been reexamined and is now considered to have an added mintmark.
This specific point was noted (verbally) by seminal Merc 10c maven/guru Harold Kritzman in examining the coin prior to my purchase. Full disclosure by Renrob followed by "Look, Rick, you're not calling me because I'm an idiot. I would have bought it myself from Stacks if it were real. Those bands are "P"-mint".
I am asked if I am willing to reimburse them my $1500 profit from the entire subsequent retail price he has ethically eaten.
30+ years later, I am still unsatisfied by the nature and shading of the denouement. Nor will I ever be.
Knowingly attempting to hijack this thread.... any thoughts?
Your post is not a highjack. This is exactly the kind of "story" that makes the purchase of the fake come alive. I thought the ending was going to be that the center bands were altered. Not exactly a counterfeit but similar. Your post was much better than just "yes, I have!"
In the 1970's, I was accused of selling a dealer a counterfeit Saudi 4P Disc. He returned it. Unfortunately, both he and the respected old "Cracked-Eye" nationally-known wanna-be coin authenticator had no clue about the different dies used to strike them. Do I still sound a little bitter? LOL!
I deliberately bought 2 "Morgans" at a street stall in Thailand about a decade ago for $1 a piece. The obverse and reverse designs were actually done quite well. The only problem was that the reverse design was actually the reverse design for the Seated Liberty $1.
I gave them away at my next local coin club meeting.
Btw, I still have four of the Chinese fake silver so called dollars left on the giveaway section. 2 Fatmans, 1 Junk w/ 3 birds overhead, 1 all Chinese characters both sides. Let me know, I'll mail you 1 or 2, my gift for the good of the order. Peace Roy
Picked up an 1877 P Trade Dollar in an "airtite capsule" on eBay that turned out to be a fake and buyer protection ensured that I was promptly refund for the same.
Yes of course, most collectors have. Some know it later as their knowledge grows, some will not know till they sell.
I once bought an 1856 half cent looking very nice AU from a dealer who cataloged for Bowers and Merena way back. He got it from a large dealer in U. S. coppers. When I had it in for certification was told made by a famous west coast copper counterfeiter. Passed two dealer experts unknowingly, or they unloaded on me.
Since that time have taken at least half a dozen counterfeits detection classes.
Now past no skill level to maybe class 301 skill.
Several times called dealer attention to a piece in their cases at shows that was CF. They shrugged and put it back in their case to sell without noting it. Also , have Pointed out three or four times foreign coins TPG slabbed that I am expert
In that were mislabeled for type sometimes laughable Again no believe in my help, even when I explained to them what was the CF , labeling error. I believe they will always believe the TPG'S over and advanced collector (45yrs) and who has on occasion consulted for PCGS. I Don't usually bother anymore.
The Moral of these stories is educate yourself in what you collect. BUYER BEWARE.
Yep. 1885 CC Morgan.
Was at a charity auction years back and had a silent bid in for a bundle of loose Morgans. In the photo you can see the '85 but with little details. Ended up winning the lot and received all the coins a couple days later when I went to pick them up. All were genuine except the Carson City, felt bad for making a stink about it to a charity but tbh the ONLY reason people were in a bidding war was because of the key CC. made arrangements with the organization for a deduction in price for the actual real ones. Still have the '85 and plan on being buried with it. Give grave robbers something to get excited about.
I bought one thinking it looked "off" but I liked the clashed dies. Got it home and weighed it to confirm it was fake. Still love the "coin" and the clashed images on it.
Boy, that would suck. Those are very attractive counterfeits. I can't imagine how many collections in America contain such replicas. I have several counterfeits and only one that I was taken for. But I was much younger then.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@Weiss said:
On the collecting side, probably not. I almost always buy my own collection pieces slabbed by PCGS or NGC, and always verify with the TPG. The very few really good raw pieces I've gotten for my personal collection, I've gotten from reputable dealers and tend to be pieces unlikely to be faked. And I have them slabbed shortly thereafter.
But on the investment / resale side? Sure! Absolutely! No risk, no reward. Sometimes you put your big boy pants on and ante up. You bring your decades of experience to bear and weigh the outcomes. You know what? I LIVE for it. It's one of the main reasons this hobby is so exciting and interesting.
So what was fake about your 1920? The gold content checks out….
So what was fake about your 1920? The gold content checks out….
This piece was likely made in the middle-east in the 1950s or 1960s when it was illegal for most Americans to own bullion gold. These pieces were made out of good gold, but the goldsmiths more often made pieces to European (specifically England's) "crown gold" standard--91.7% 22k--rather than our (America's) 90% pure standard.
So this is a fake. But it's actually more pure than the original
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
@burfle23 said:
All three of these in my collection are struck counterfeits; actually have an article on this variety just re-posted on Coin Week.
Yikes.
I have one that looks exactly like the third one in the picture you posted. Perhaps time for me to dig it out and send it in to our hosts for grading.
The first one was a pickup at the BECC show that I thought was a neat set of diecracks. After posting it, I learned it was a CC and worth about $25 more than I had paid. I did mention it to the dealer at the next coin show, he was horrified and offered to make me whole. I laughed, told him the rest of the story, and my fascination with CCs is all his fault :-)
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I think the question should be more alines like have you bought a counterfeit unknowingly as many counterfeit,
electrotypes, etcccc are highly sought after and collectable. I have an entire quasi collection., and love them
@coinsarefun said:
I think the question should be more alines like have you bought a counterfeit unknowingly as many counterfeit,
electrotypes, etcccc are highly sought after and collectable. I have an entire quasi collection., and love them
I concur.
Have intentionally and knowingly bought a few fakes and it was also truthfully advertised thus, with no intention to rip off (like the 1887 CC Morgan, 1oz. AGE, the extremely rare 1939 Indian rupee etc.) just so that it could be used as an educational tool to teach my kid as to how to differentiate between the real and fakes by merely looking at pics since most coins that he intended to buy were all online. Have told him to avoid financial pitfalls by staying away from dealing in gold till he was more mature.
There was never an 1887 cc Morgan ever minted, but other than that glaring fact, the above coin is made of silver and the telltale signs like the CC, denticles etc. is mostly the clues that sort of reveals the reality.
.
And I am in the middle of playing an ICG order that will entomb my pieces as Imiy=tataion and "for learning purposes only"
It is small but hopefully you can open it in another window and view full size.
.
I have many that I purchased as counterfeits. None that were purchased as real. Some crude and some really deceptive. I used to own the $3 gold Omega counterfeit. Sold that to a dealer years ago.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
@asheland said:
No counterfeits that I’m aware of.
I buy mostly slabbed anyway.
At least the authenticity guarantee covers them...
Buying slabbed coins doesn’t guarantee that the TPG did the slabbing…..one of the counterfeit I bought….
I bought 3 different coins and at the time I didn’t realize but they had the same process, they bid you up and when you quit bidding magically the high bidder dropped out and you are presented the opportunity to purchase….this was on eBay. One coin has already been covered by my Apple Card (Goldman Sachs) and the other two on Chase I need to submit everything in writing….
Yes, when I was buying Morgan's and Peace dollars on eBay I ended up buying 5 that turned out to be fake. I was able to file claims with eBay and got all my money back. The best thing about it was that I learned how to verify whether a Morgan or peace was a fake. It was frustrating however, but very rewarding at the education I was forced to pursue.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
I have, a huge Iran 2 1/2 Pahlavi and a 1908-D Indian $5. Bought them both raw in the late 70s when nothing was slabbed. Sold them both to a bullion dealer 4 years ago after they came back from a TP grading service as "not genuine" for about 4 times what I paid for them.
Bad news is that out of hundreds of genuine classic US gold coins I purchased raw the Indian $5 was the only one I ever bought and it was for my gold type set.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Comments
I'll be interested in the Bust $1/2.
BHNC #203
Your post is not a highjack. This is exactly the kind of "story" that makes the purchase of the fake come alive. I thought the ending was going to be that the center bands were altered. Not exactly a counterfeit but similar. Your post was much better than just "yes, I have!"
In the 1970's, I was accused of selling a dealer a counterfeit Saudi 4P Disc. He returned it. Unfortunately, both he and the respected old "Cracked-Eye" nationally-known wanna-be coin authenticator had no clue about the different dies used to strike them. Do I still sound a little bitter? LOL!
I collect Trade dollars, so yes, it comes with the territory.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
Never have, but I am very vigilant when looking to buy.
U think I've been had...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UzubtP6Xpw5i39LFA
Advice?
I deliberately bought 2 "Morgans" at a street stall in Thailand about a decade ago for $1 a piece. The obverse and reverse designs were actually done quite well. The only problem was that the reverse design was actually the reverse design for the Seated Liberty $1.
I gave them away at my next local coin club meeting.
U.S. Type Set
Yes, fake Morgan, and fake classic comemorative 50 cent pieces. Also bought a real American eagle in a fake pcgs slab.
Start a new thread for this
Yep, and I am still mad about it
Successful transactions with: Lakesammman, jimineez1, Flackthat, PerryHall, bidask, bccox, TwistedArrow1962, free_spirit, alexerca, scooter25, FHC, tnspro, mcarney1173, moursund, and SurfinxHI (6 times)
I only stick with PCGS and NGC coins that have images.
Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP
Yes, I have about half of my 7070 album of fakes/counterfeits.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Btw, I still have four of the Chinese fake silver so called dollars left on the giveaway section. 2 Fatmans, 1 Junk w/ 3 birds overhead, 1 all Chinese characters both sides. Let me know, I'll mail you 1 or 2, my gift for the good of the order. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
Picked up an 1877 P Trade Dollar in an "airtite capsule" on eBay that turned out to be a fake and buyer protection ensured that I was promptly refund for the same.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Back in 1981 I responded to an offer in the Coin World classifieds that offered a 1909-S VDB Lincoln for $40 face 90% silver.
Yes of course, most collectors have. Some know it later as their knowledge grows, some will not know till they sell.
I once bought an 1856 half cent looking very nice AU from a dealer who cataloged for Bowers and Merena way back. He got it from a large dealer in U. S. coppers. When I had it in for certification was told made by a famous west coast copper counterfeiter. Passed two dealer experts unknowingly, or they unloaded on me.
Since that time have taken at least half a dozen counterfeits detection classes.
Now past no skill level to maybe class 301 skill.
Several times called dealer attention to a piece in their cases at shows that was CF. They shrugged and put it back in their case to sell without noting it. Also , have Pointed out three or four times foreign coins TPG slabbed that I am expert
In that were mislabeled for type sometimes laughable Again no believe in my help, even when I explained to them what was the CF , labeling error. I believe they will always believe the TPG'S over and advanced collector (45yrs) and who has on occasion consulted for PCGS. I Don't usually bother anymore.
The Moral of these stories is educate yourself in what you collect. BUYER BEWARE.
Yep. 1885 CC Morgan.
Was at a charity auction years back and had a silent bid in for a bundle of loose Morgans. In the photo you can see the '85 but with little details. Ended up winning the lot and received all the coins a couple days later when I went to pick them up. All were genuine except the Carson City, felt bad for making a stink about it to a charity but tbh the ONLY reason people were in a bidding war was because of the key CC. made arrangements with the organization for a deduction in price for the actual real ones. Still have the '85 and plan on being buried with it. Give grave robbers something to get excited about.
Ounce by ounce the stack grows .
This is what I'm afraid of.
Guess I should pick up my glove and head back home...
Post pics, ask questions, get return privileges
I bought one thinking it looked "off" but I liked the clashed dies. Got it home and weighed it to confirm it was fake. Still love the "coin" and the clashed images on it.
I have a fake 2013 ASE in my collection and I have no recollection of how I got it - it may have come with some coins from my dad.
At least the guarantee covers the buyer of the counterfeit as long as it remains in the holder
...
I would think I have but none that I’m sure of. After X amount of coins I’m going to say probably 😉
Hopefully will soon obtain an example or two as part of my collection is , ah eclectic or maybe varied
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Only one I know of.
I inadvertently bought this one in a dealer's silver junk pile at melt.
100% Positive BST transactions
All three of these in my collection are struck counterfeits; actually have an article on this variety just re-posted on Coin Week.
Boy, that would suck. Those are very attractive counterfeits. I can't imagine how many collections in America contain such replicas. I have several counterfeits and only one that I was taken for. But I was much younger then.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
So what was fake about your 1920? The gold content checks out….
This piece was likely made in the middle-east in the 1950s or 1960s when it was illegal for most Americans to own bullion gold. These pieces were made out of good gold, but the goldsmiths more often made pieces to European (specifically England's) "crown gold" standard--91.7% 22k--rather than our (America's) 90% pure standard.
So this is a fake. But it's actually more pure than the original
--Severian the Lame
Yikes.
I have one that looks exactly like the third one in the picture you posted. Perhaps time for me to dig it out and send it in to our hosts for grading.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
No counterfeits that I’m aware of.
I buy mostly slabbed anyway.
My YouTube Channel
I have not that I know of. I did however have my father's s-vdb come back as 'added mintmark'.
Several 3CS, all but the first intentionally.
The first one was a pickup at the BECC show that I thought was a neat set of diecracks. After posting it, I learned it was a CC and worth about $25 more than I had paid. I did mention it to the dealer at the next coin show, he was horrified and offered to make me whole. I laughed, told him the rest of the story, and my fascination with CCs is all his fault :-)
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I think the question should be more alines like have you bought a counterfeit unknowingly as many counterfeit,
electrotypes, etcccc are highly sought after and collectable. I have an entire quasi collection., and love them
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I concur.
Have intentionally and knowingly bought a few fakes and it was also truthfully advertised thus, with no intention to rip off (like the 1887 CC Morgan, 1oz. AGE, the extremely rare 1939 Indian rupee etc.) just so that it could be used as an educational tool to teach my kid as to how to differentiate between the real and fakes by merely looking at pics since most coins that he intended to buy were all online. Have told him to avoid financial pitfalls by staying away from dealing in gold till he was more mature.
There was never an 1887 cc Morgan ever minted, but other than that glaring fact, the above coin is made of silver and the telltale signs like the CC, denticles etc. is mostly the clues that sort of reveals the reality.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
.
"1652" 6P PINE TREE, SILVER WYATT COPY MS63 CERTIFICATION #30819978, PCGS #534628 PCGS MS63
.
.
And I am in the middle of playing an ICG order that will entomb my pieces as Imiy=tataion and "for learning purposes only"
It is small but hopefully you can open it in another window and view full size.
.
.
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
No, but I was given one once.
I have many that I purchased as counterfeits. None that were purchased as real. Some crude and some really deceptive. I used to own the $3 gold Omega counterfeit. Sold that to a dealer years ago.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Never been stuck with a counterfeit. I did purchase some Sommer Islands cast duplicates souvenirs on purpose for my daughter Sommer.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
At least the authenticity guarantee covers them...
Buying slabbed coins doesn’t guarantee that the TPG did the slabbing…..one of the counterfeit I bought….
I bought 3 different coins and at the time I didn’t realize but they had the same process, they bid you up and when you quit bidding magically the high bidder dropped out and you are presented the opportunity to purchase….this was on eBay. One coin has already been covered by my Apple Card (Goldman Sachs) and the other two on Chase I need to submit everything in writing….
Yes, when I was buying Morgan's and Peace dollars on eBay I ended up buying 5 that turned out to be fake. I was able to file claims with eBay and got all my money back. The best thing about it was that I learned how to verify whether a Morgan or peace was a fake. It was frustrating however, but very rewarding at the education I was forced to pursue.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
Yes, a mid grade 1914-S Barber quarter off eBay that I posted in an earlier thread. Got my money back and I still have the "coin".
I have, a huge Iran 2 1/2 Pahlavi and a 1908-D Indian $5. Bought them both raw in the late 70s when nothing was slabbed. Sold them both to a bullion dealer 4 years ago after they came back from a TP grading service as "not genuine" for about 4 times what I paid for them.
Bad news is that out of hundreds of genuine classic US gold coins I purchased raw the Indian $5 was the only one I ever bought and it was for my gold type set.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Yes. One Morgan dollar and a Chinese dollar.