Will they CAC? 5 gold coins - RESULTs and CAC comments added.
jwitten
Posts: 5,220 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've never really cared about CAC. After all, I collect coins, not stickers. However, I've been curious how some of my coins would do, and I think it would be neat to own a gold coin with a gold CAC. So, do you think any of these are a green or a gold? This will help me decide which (if any) I should submit. The pictures are the best I could do.. hopefully they are good enough.
4
Comments
I think if these all grade VF20 you will get all gold beans.
MS 69+. No cac on any.
You need to separate "guess the grade" from "will it CAC?" The assigned grade is crucial to a CAC approval. An MS-65 green CAC might flunk if it is in an MS-66 holder.
Understandable. I will post the grades, and we will just change it to a "will they CAC"
Nice coins. All will CAC and 2 will go Gold is my opinion.
I've heard here that they are tough on gold....
I'm not sure if that's because they believe a vast majority of gold is overgraded?.....or if they just think there are too many gold coins, and they really need to be A+ exceptional to be tagged by them as quality buys?
(All of which is no answer at all to your questions....But to me, that VF-30 1911 seems criminally undergraded.
)
I think that they will all CAC except for perhaps the 1911 in NGC VF-30. I think that there is a net grade involved there. The piece appears to be an AU with a scratch that runs down from the Indian's mouth to his jaw. I have seen such coins receive CAC approval, but not without controversy.
Yes, the 1911 is ridiculously under graded, but I can see CAC possibly saying it should not be graded at all, so that will be an interesting one. The 1913 seems PL, so I wonder if they might think it should have been labeled cleaned. The MS60 coins all look pretty nice for the grade to me though.
Good Luck buddy! I have never sent a gold coin to JA...I will gamble that all 5 CAC cause the @Wabbit2313 says so, and he seems pretty in tune with CAC from my experience here
With these starting grades you have a real opportunity to get a gold bean.
There is only one way to know for sure. Let us know how it turns out.
Any other gold guys care to weigh in?
13 & 11 def no
11 is undergraded, but no cac acceptable
Because of the scratch? Why on the 1913?
After seeing CAC grade gold in person, I can tell you with certainty that I have absolutely no idea if they are green or gold. Of that, I am very certain.
Possibly one or more cac gold stickers; wasn't Mr. Albanese finalizer when those OH NGC coins were graded?
I think all would sticker, but I don't think it is worth the effort to do so. CAC is very stingy with gold stickers, and won't always give out one even when a coin will likely upgrade if resubmitted to the TPG and green bean at the higher level. For coins that have upgrade potential, a CAC green sticker would only hurt the value IMHO.
CAC gives very few stickers for MS60 quarter eagles....
I think they will all pass. I think you have a shot at 2 of them getting gold. I wish you luck on your submission.
Looks like the most gold Cacs on Indian's are in 61 grade, and 60 is the next most. On the Liberties there is no real favorite after ms63's.
None of my business, but if you never really cared about CAC, why would you care to submit to them?
If you submit through a collector friend to CAC and fail you pay no fee to CAC so what is the risk other than getting a great education?
I have learned not to try to grade gold coins via pictures on the internet.
By the way, I have submitted over 700 coins including nearly 200 gold coins to CAC and have had a success rate of about 80%.
Indeed, JA has taught me so much about grading gold and other coins as he is one of the five smartest gold coin graders in the hobby.
But just to stay humble I still can't grade Franklin half dollars to save my life!!
The "whole slab" photos of the 1913 give it an unnatural luster. I thought about flagging that piece as not CAC acceptable but didn't.
Perhaps that might be due the fact that the MS-60 grade is seldom assigned.
I will agree with most on the likely success rate. The only one that made me pause was the 13 and my initial reaction was that it had a light cleaning. But what do I know.
There are some older holders in the OP, but my success rate with CAC was been with copper, nickel and silver...not gold.
One way to find out...send 'em in!
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A lot of gold doesn't have "original" surfaces and that reflects in the number of coins that sticker at CAC. A lot of old gold has been dipped in acid or lightly cleaned over the years. I collect $2.5 Indians and I see a lot of ugly coins in straight holders. I have learned a lot from submitting my tribe of Indians to CAC.
I think you will receive some green stickers... I would be surprised if you get a gold.... Certainly not impossible...just my opinion from the photos.... Best of luck.. Cheers, RickO
I guess I should say I don't really care about green stickers. I think the golds are pretty cool, and I would like to own one
It for sure has a shinier look than the rest, so that is very possible. I am not good at determining if a coin is proof like, or lightly cleaned.
And I may very well be wrong, the only way to tell is to send it to someone with a whole lot more knowledge than I have.
I have very limited experience with CAC. The one time I did submit was through a dealer, and was charged for coins that did not sticker. Can you explain more about your "no fee" comment?
Thanks!
i'll guess the 1904 and 1911 will go gold. i can't guess on the others with those photos.
If you have a collector submission account yourself, you receive an account credit for coins that fail CAC. You can ask for a refund check of any excess at any time. Dealers are charged regardless of whether a coin fails or not.
I'll guess that 3 of 5 get green...no gold
No
No
Green
Green
Gold
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I'm hopeless with Indian gold, esp. from pictures and double xtra in MS60 so I'll pass.
Unless MS63 or higher don't c the point. Why pay money be tryhard? The money u would spend buys nice coin.
The sheet does not assign cac premium to USGTC coins less than 63.
Only ones that should go are ones that are excellent gold sticker plays.....like the 1911 VF20. The other coins won't gain any value by a sticker.
I can see your point, but I have paid simply for the education before. I have learned a lot about grading US coins and especially gold coins through submitting to PCGS and CAC.
If you submit as a collector, you only pay for the coin(s) that sticker. I know CAC is not the end all be all, however I do respect their opinion. I disagree with many of the coins they do/don't sticker, but all it is (just like TPG grading) at the end of the day is an opinion.
I've often heard MS60 coins are UGLY.. and these are not even close to ugly. I DO have a rattler $2 1/2 Indian in 60.. but it is indeed ugly, so I am not sending it. I agree a green sticker will not improve the value of these, but I think a gold would (plus, I just want a gold coin with a gold sticker!)
I agree with the education aspect of submitting to CAC. Since most coins with a CAC sticker sell for a premium, if you can develop an eye for coins that will pass CAC prior to them being submitted, it can only be advantageous in the future. It's similar to buying raw coins and developing an eye for the way the TPG's grade, but with a much lower risk on the downside.
It's minimal risk for a change at a gold sticker, which will certainly add a bunch of value to that coin.
Just logging in to thank Cameonut2011 for the response above.
I did not know that; I a;ways assumed CAC was like TPGs.
I'm not going to venture a guess on the NGC examples.
But those two rattlers certainly appear obviously better than 60's. I mean, look at the cheeks and fields. Assuming CAC doesn't see some old cleaning evidence they both look gold sticker worthy.
I've sent these 5 to @jtlee321 to send in for me, and also sent a couple toners for him to photograph. I will update with results on both!
Submit them all. I think the 1907 has a real shot at gold.
Doug
I think I will be getting the explanations on the no-pass ones. I bet the 1911 is for the scratch. No clue on the 1907... it sure looks nice to me! I'm pumped I got a gold Indian! There are only 29 out there!! Whoo hoo!
Congrats, on getting a Gold on the Gold.
Donato
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CAC has stickered plenty of coins with scratches.
I will update with the reasons once I find out.