NEWP from ANA - Grade posted in OP!
Lakesammman
Posts: 17,437 ✭✭✭✭✭
Grade Posted:
Saw this coin on Great Collections and was hoping it would be at the ANA, which it was. I was blown away by how clean the cheek was with a few minor contact marks in the headdress. I asked Boiler 78 to check it out - when we first met, he was collecting Indian $10's and was 1 coin short of completing the set. He thought the obverse was a 65, the reverse 64.
I thought it was nicer than a 65 I saw on the floor at the ANA.
Grade?? PCGS 64 CAC (green).
Thanks for the guesses - GTG's are fun although it's clear that grading pictures is hard.
Original post follows........................
Mentioned in my report from Denver that I had a lead on 1-2 coins. Sealed the deal on this one and it arrived last week.
1907 Wire Edge $10.
Don't guess if you know the coin - let's have some fun and see what people think. 
Comments
My favorite grade is XF-45.
It's a GREAT looking coin T-Man! I will preclude myself from GTG.
Congrats!!
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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Not quite enough to go on from the photos, but I'll guess MS-64.
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"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
62
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58 or 63 on a good day
Amazing find! Great coin!!
I have not seen enough of them in hand, but this is a high $$$$ item.... enjoy!
My dream one day...
Numismatics & Photography
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Clue:
It's MS, not a DOG.
No telling from a photo! Nevertheless, it looks like an MS-66; however, that would be $$$$$$. The coin does not look 100% original: cloudy fields and cheek rub may drop it to MS-63. So I'll spit out a guess. MS-64 or 65 and since I'm both very conservative and incorrect much of the time (I want to guess 64) I'll be stupid and guess it is in a MS-65 holder.
My grade would be MS-61. I have seen the high grade examples, and they don't show the cloudiness that this piece has.
so my or 63 is still good
Question: is "cloudiness" the same as "pale luster?"
If not what is cloudiness?
Mr. Bill,
Please humor me for a discussion. While you have me beat on experience, money, and numismatic smarts, I think you are way too low on this coin. I know my PERSONAL grade (MS-63 MAX) is way below my stupid guess of MS-65 that I made because we are dealing with a TPGS trying to put a value on the coin.
I was taught to grade this way:
Based on that (from photo) I don't think there is a dealer in the country who would sell that coin raw at less than a MS-63...even you(?).
The coin has virtually no marks, it's struck up nicely, and IMO, its A/S will look like very pleasing "original skin" to 80% of the dealers buying it. The image is beautiful (MS-66). Since a tiny amount of hazed over rub means nothing - the only thing that can drop that coin to a MS-61 grade is continuous hairlines from old cleaning over its entire surface.
For the sake of my education on coins I shall never own, what do you and others, please think. So far we have guesses of MS-61 to MS-65. Perhaps we should agree to throw out the high and low guesses and get real.
Boy, have you opened a can of worms!! I'll answer that but it will take awhile to reply. In that time you should have several shorter answers from folks more knowledgeable than I,
I would say 65+ or 66
I'll go with 64+.
I am not very thrilled with the tone of your post, but I will "humor you."
Here is photo of an MS-61 graded piece from "Coin Facts."
I am not a big fan of the coin that is at the head of this thread because the luster looks to be impaired, perhaps from a cleaning. There is a chance that this lack of luster was due to the condition of the dies when the coin was struck. I'd need to see the piece in person to determine that. The lack of luster concerns me. For that reason I said MS-61, or maybe 62. Having seen enough gold coins get low grades because of indifferent luster, despite the fact that they had very few marks, has taught me to approach such coins with caution.
@KollectorKing said: "Question: is "cloudiness" the same as "pale luster?" If not what is cloudiness?"
No, but first let me say that none of what I write applies to the OP's coin although Bill and I agree its surface looks cloudy.
When a gold coin is struck it is brilliant, either PR, PL, or MS. Gold is a metal that is resistant to changes in color. Let's restrict this to Uncirculated coins only. Generally, due to their alloys, there can be differences in color over a period of time that is dependent on the environment the coin was subjected to. Some of this is due to the chemical reaction s in the actual metal and some due to surface contamination. Ruling out glue, varnish, dirt, etc. the most common type of residue is a "film-like" haze (extremely desirable if it's attractive) that coats the surface. As long as the coin stays original and Unc, its original bright color can be restored easily by removing that "skin."
Folks, use chemicals to mimic "skin." on gold. Gold can also be lightly buffed to make it look lustrous yet cloudy but that is also something I'm not going to write about now. If something is dissolved in a "carrier fluid" and applied to a coin, it can leave behind a thin film on the surface after drying which covers marks & hairlines. When you know what to look for we call it an altered surface - cloudy and unnatural. Hope that helps.
PS Natural "skin" tends to be uniform and not "splotchy-cloudy."
PPS Many gold coins that have been chemically altered develop a "bluish" tint over time. On others, the residue appears to become a "thick-appearing" and darker yellowish egg-shell color on the high points where it was applied to hide the friction wear.
I'll call it a 66, too. Very nice.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
@BillJones said: "I am not very thrilled with the tone of your post, but I will "humor you. Here is photo of an MS-61 graded piece from "Coin Facts."
"I am not a big fan of the coin that is at the head of this thread because the luster looks to be impaired, perhaps from a cleaning. There is a chance that this lack of luster was due to the condition of the dies when the coin was struck. I'd need to see the piece in person to determine that. The lack of luster concerns me. For that reason I said MS-61, or maybe 62. Having seen enough gold coins get low grades because of indifferent luster, despite the fact that they had very few marks, has taught me to approach such coins with caution."
Don't be embarrassed, everything I said about you and me is true and I freely acknowledge your expertise on these numismatic threads. I will not mention your extensive qualifications again.
Now to the coin you posted. That piece has many obvious marks, some deep, a large scrape in the reverse field and rim damage definitely into the edge also. Unfortunately, I cannot blow up the reverse or see it all. Anyway, 61 or even a 62, if graded this week, is OK. It probably has some scattered HLNS too.
We both agree the OP's coin has a cloudy impaired luster. I posted that IMHO most will love it as it mimics original skin. I will disagree that t the condition of the dies had anything to do with the coins lack of luster.
Now I've got you to consider MS-62. If I can drag you to consider MS-63 as the luster may not show in the image, you'll make my day!! LOL.
I'm going with 55.
Gold isn't my area, but I'm just throwing out a wild guess.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
58
OP's clue posted above: "It's MS"
Gold is graded just like other coins with the important exception used by most that since it is a soft metal, we'll accept more friction wear on it than nickel or silver and still call it Uncirculated.
That is a looker and my favorite gold design so grade is not important to me.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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Here's a different look.
Didn't like the above picture since it had a crescentic scratch on the plastic on the reverse - polished the plastic before shooting the OP pic.
While I'll agree somewhat, a price spread of over $200,000 in the Uncirculated grades does matter to me! Since I just looked up the prices and I don't know how wealthy the OP is, I should claim "based on new info" and drop my guess down to MS-63 max but I'll stick to my stupid TPGS grade of MS-65.
Perhaps you should have posted that it is NOT an XF or AU in the original post too. LOL.
Based on the new image, @BillJones is going to have nailed it: MS-61 or 62 MAX!
PR 65
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65
61
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I figured Mark eyeballed the coin as well. If it passed both of your eyeball tests that's convincing enough for me.
PCGS 64 CAC seems spot on. Quite the coin sir. Mega congrats. Tough coin
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@insider2 , I must admit that I do not collect by date or mint mark. I collect what I like.
I have to be in the minority here but it doesn't matter much to me. If I collected by grade, mm or date
I would never have the collection I have because the items I purchase are never inexpensive.
And, regards to this particular coin I do love the design and it is one of my favorite designs in gold.
So if the price bump is tremendous by one grade that is the exact reason I do not collect by grade
Because I can enjoy the coin being a lower grade and pop1's are only temporary as a few more join the ranks shortly after
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Thank you @Lakesammman for your great give-away of this 1907 Wire Edge. I am honored to have the first MS-64 guess and will immediately cash it in at the local pawn shop upon receipt. Or did I lose on a technicality of not noting CAC
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
WinLoseWin - You lose on 2 technical points - this wasn't a give away.
CoinsAreFun - I don't collect by date anymore - just buy eye candy when the right coin comes available.
64 is the most common grade for this issue - 108 - right in the middle of the bell shaped curve. Most of the approximately 500 made were saved at the time of issue and very few are graded below MS.
Late to the party.
Beautiful coin Lakes. Now you need a sweet $5.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Those pictures show me an MS61...maybe 62.... Cheers, RickO