MilesWaits: Did you read this was going to be a one time deal and we will never see Palladium bullion coins produced again? I missed reading that. But, I really was not paying that close attention. Link that announcement please and thanks. Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Either creativity has waned and is gone, or political correctness is scaring the creative.
Coins are regurgitating old designs.
TV shows and movies are being made of prior titles and designs (Hawaii 5-0, etc).
People can't, or won't, come up with things on their own.
It was the lying and denial that left a bad taste in my mouth about APMEX. Forum members had proof positive. I have been very hesitant to deal with them since. I did buy an ATB chest with drawers to house my pucks. But they don't enter my bullion buying decision at all. You are more forgiving and a better man I OPA.
@Cougar1978 said:
What's wrong with new designs - why all this copy old designs?
In this case the special interest/greedy mine owner legislation specified the designs. Likely copied from illustrations in my book RAC 1916-1921, which is about the only place the reverse design was illustrated until recently. (Just a nagging suspicion...)
At least you know people are reading it though .... so you got that going for ya
@Bochiman said:
Either creativity has waned and is gone, or political correctness is scaring the creative.
Coins are regurgitating old designs.
TV shows and movies are being made of prior titles and designs (Hawaii 5-0, etc).
People can't, or won't, come up with things on their own.
I heard a rumor that next year they are coming out with Hawaii 6-0 , gotta be at least 20% better
I am confused. Where is it posted that this is going to be a yearly issue? I see these being compared to the platinum "series"
It's in the law, right next to the Silver, Gold and Platinum Eagles.
And the mint already confirmed the collector version(s) are coming next year.
I see it like the platinum's too. Popular for the first couple of years (people putting them into IRA's?), but then demand base collapses. The major difference is the Palladium Eagle will have no fractionals to keep it popular.
The price of palladium closed in US exchange ahead of platinum today. It will be interesting to see if palladium becomes the new premier product out of the mint over its less valuable cousin, platinum.
I want to buy a 2017 1 oz Palladium American Eagle MS-70 PCGS (First Strike) or a MS-70 NGC perfect coin but all the big boys are SOLD OUT!!!!! Does that mean I am SOL or will there be more coming. I heard only 15,000 were going to be produced. I don't want a 69 or 68 and for a Benjiman seems like the right move to make. Since we can't buy them cause were not one of the luck'ies.
@Gluggo said:
I want to buy a 2017 1 oz Palladium American Eagle MS-70 PCGS (First Strike) or a MS-70 NGC perfect coin but all the big boys are SOLD OUT!!!!! Does that mean I am SOL or will there be more coming. I heard only 15,000 were going to be produced. I don't want a 69 or 68 and for a Benjiman seems like the right move to make. Since we can't buy them cause were not one of the luck'ies.
I have no idea what the 70 pop will be, but with 15,000 total coins produced & the Mint's authorized buyers getting first dips, there will be more available from them soon.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
I don't understand about the complaints about percentage rates over spot. If you want palladium, just as a metal, by palladium bars. Even that is expensive compared to an ETF.
Desigining a new coin, paying artists, engineers, making dies, recalibrating machines, etc, all this cost money and man hours. It's crazy that anyone thinks that more than 5% over spot is too much.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
@kiyote said:
I don't understand about the complaints about percentage rates over spot. If you want palladium, just as a metal, by palladium bars. Even that is expensive compared to an ETF.
Desigining a new coin, paying artists, engineers, making dies, recalibrating machines, etc, all this cost money and man hours. It's crazy that anyone thinks that more than 5% over spot is too much.
It's not really a complaint, it's just an acknowledgement that the price will collapse to a little over spot as soon as you buy it. Look at the secondary market for palladium maple leafs.
@MilesWaits said:
Agreed. Take a look at the Maple Palladium and see how much they are over spot. And they are a lot less exciting than this issue. I like both though.
It's the resale issue. These will only trade on the secondary market at a little over spot. Look at the secondary market for palladium maple leafs. They will sell for $100-$150 over spot new, but the trade for $50 over on the secondary market which means the wholesale price is spot or even 2% below spot.
If you want to own it for 20 years, no big deal. If you are buying it to invest in Palladium, forget it.
@Gluggo said:
I want to buy a 2017 1 oz Palladium American Eagle MS-70 PCGS (First Strike) or a MS-70 NGC perfect coin but all the big boys are SOLD OUT!!!!! Does that mean I am SOL or will there be more coming. I heard only 15,000 were going to be produced. I don't want a 69 or 68 and for a Benjiman seems like the right move to make. Since we can't buy them cause were not one of the luck'ies.
Wait until Monday Oct 2,2017. You'll have a chance to get what you want from The Coin Vault. On the show last night, they indicated they would have these available starting Monday.
I am eager to get the next 2 items released and think the 4 coin Liberty Silver Commem is worth a look. At least that will have 3 coins with separate mint marks and a reasonable limit on production. Plus it will be 200 vs 1K
@Gluggo said:
I want to buy a 2017 1 oz Palladium American Eagle MS-70 PCGS (First Strike) or a MS-70 NGC perfect coin but all the big boys are SOLD OUT!!!!! Does that mean I am SOL or will there be more coming. I heard only 15,000 were going to be produced. I don't want a 69 or 68 and for a Benjiman seems like the right move to make. Since we can't buy them cause were not one of the luck'ies.
Wait until Monday Oct 2,2017. You'll have a chance to get what you want from The Coin Vault. On the show last night, they indicated they would have these available starting Monday.
Thank you but I am a newbie in coin collecting is the Coin Vault one of those rip your money off, and that later your sorry you bought from them. I usually find them on Ebay but right now no body is selling. I mean it sounds like I would do better to wait it out judging from some of the posts. Maybe wait a few years and see where this goes.
@Gluggo said:
I want to buy a 2017 1 oz Palladium American Eagle MS-70 PCGS (First Strike) or a MS-70 NGC perfect coin but all the big boys are SOLD OUT!!!!! Does that mean I am SOL or will there be more coming. I heard only 15,000 were going to be produced. I don't want a 69 or 68 and for a Benjiman seems like the right move to make. Since we can't buy them cause were not one of the luck'ies.
Wait until Monday Oct 2,2017. You'll have a chance to get what you want from The Coin Vault. On the show last night, they indicated they would have these available starting Monday.
Thank you but I am a newbie in coin collecting is the Coin Vault one of those rip your money off, and that later your sorry you bought from them. I usually find them on Ebay but right now no body is selling. I mean it sounds like I would do better to wait it out judging from some of the posts. Maybe wait a few years and see where this goes.
You will pay a a lot for this piece on that show. stay away. Sorry, I was being facetious.
@Gluggo said:
I want to buy a 2017 1 oz Palladium American Eagle MS-70 PCGS (First Strike) or a MS-70 NGC perfect coin but all the big boys are SOLD OUT!!!!! Does that mean I am SOL or will there be more coming. I heard only 15,000 were going to be produced. I don't want a 69 or 68 and for a Benjiman seems like the right move to make. Since we can't buy them cause were not one of the luck'ies.
Wait until Monday Oct 2,2017. You'll have a chance to get what you want from The Coin Vault. On the show last night, they indicated they would have these available starting Monday.
Thank you but I am a newbie in coin collecting is the Coin Vault one of those rip your money off, and that later your sorry you bought from them. I usually find them on Ebay but right now no body is selling. I mean it sounds like I would do better to wait it out judging from some of the posts. Maybe wait a few years and see where this goes.
You will pay a a lot for this piece on that show. stay away. Sorry, I was being facetious.
I agree with the below statement....however, how many that say it, even if they mean it, care about getting less than they paid when/if they have to sell, or want to sell?
I know I do.
While I may not buy coins as "investments", and while I don't sell a lot, when I do sell, the few times I have sold at a loss have really bothered me.
@MilesWaits said:
I don't buy coins as investments.
@Kkathyl said:
I am eager to get the next 2 items released and think the 4 coin Liberty Silver Commem is worth a look. At least that will have 3 coins with separate mint marks and a reasonable limit on production. Plus it will be 200 vs 1K
I don't believe so. First of all, the Liberty set are not coins but medals. It might be a luke warm item for a short period of time, but will cool off just like all previous medal offering from the Mint. On the other hand, the Limited Edition 2017 Silver Proof Set should be a winner.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
While I may not buy coins as "investments", and while I don't sell a lot, when I do sell, the few times I have sold at a loss have really bothered me.
There are no guarantees in life.
One of the very first things I learned about coins is that sometimes a penny is "worth" more than a penny. From that point onward, I was hooked into finding a coin that was "worth" more than what I obtained it for. Fascinating stuff, when you're a kid. Coins are a special subset of the collectibles market that is subject to many seemingly unrelated variables that are sometimes hard to track.
When you become an investor/speculator, you realize that there are no guarantees in either direction.
I prefer precious metals over collectible coins as a potential investment. The thing about precious metals coins/medals is that they are part of a larger subset (the bullion market) that is part of a larger subset (financial markets) that is part of a larger subset (the economy).
So, it's always interesting to analyze where and how it all fits together.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
Frankly, I'm holding out for a rhodium coin.
I'd like that, actually. But I wish they made this palladium coin, and that future rhodium one, in smaller sizes. I really want one of these, but I can't bring myself to spend $1000. I would see this as sunk cost and not any investment, and that is just too much to spend for me.
@jmski52 said:
Frankly, I'm holding out for a rhodium coin.
I'd like that, actually. But I wish they made this palladium coin, and that future rhodium one, in smaller sizes. I really want one of these, but I can't bring myself to spend $1000. I would see this as sunk cost and not any investment, and that is just too much to spend for me.
Problem with a smaller coin is that you are almost guaranteed to lose money because the premium is so high. A 1/10th oz palladium coin would pobably not sell at 10% over spot from the mint because of the fixed costs of production.
These issues need to be bought to collect, not to invest. Actually, that's true of pretty much everything the Mint makes, when new. Even AGE's and ASE's are usually significantly cheaper on the secondary market.
@jmski52 said: While I may not buy coins as "investments", and while I don't sell a lot, when I do sell, the few times I have sold at a loss have really bothered me.
There are no guarantees in life.
One of the very first things I learned about coins is that sometimes a penny is "worth" more than a penny. From that point onward, I was hooked into finding a coin that was "worth" more than what I obtained it for. Fascinating stuff, when you're a kid. Coins are a special subset of the collectibles market that is subject to many seemingly unrelated variables that are sometimes hard to track.
When you become an investor/speculator, you realize that there are no guarantees in either direction.
I prefer precious metals over collectible coins as a potential investment. The thing about precious metals coins/medals is that they are part of a larger subset (the bullion market) that is part of a larger subset (financial markets) that is part of a larger subset (the economy).
So, it's always interesting to analyze where and how it all fits together.
Honestly, gold is just a pretty bauble too. Might as well buy a shiny cent.
90% of gold use is cosmetic It is "collected" (hoarded?) for historical reasons. If those reasons changed due to either evolution or price, gold could easily crash.
NOTHING is a guaranteed winner and all should be bought with a certain sense of gambling.
Well, we do know that the Ancient Egyptians saw Gold as especially valuable, and in the 40+ centuries since then, Gold has never gone to zero (though there were short times when human society was so upset and turned upside down that you could not safely let other people know that you had some Gold). So I think that while the purchasing power of Gold may fluctuate, it remains valid as a form of savings/ insurance.
I am impressed that the U.S.Mint had an inventory of at least 15,000 palladium coins for starters. Best not to run out on the first day!
@Gluggo said:
I want to buy a 2017 1 oz Palladium American Eagle MS-70 PCGS (First Strike) or a MS-70 NGC perfect coin but all the big boys are SOLD OUT!!!!! Does that mean I am SOL or will there be more coming. I heard only 15,000 were going to be produced. I don't want a 69 or 68 and for a Benjiman seems like the right move to make. Since we can't buy them cause were not one of the luck'ies.
Wait until Monday Oct 2,2017. You'll have a chance to get what you want from The Coin Vault. On the show last night, they indicated they would have these available starting Monday.
SOLD OUT BUT MCM HAS THEM FDOI MUCH CHEAPER SEE POST AT BOTTOM CHANGED 10-2-17
Well tonight Mike on HSN has the Palladium MS 70's and he is claiming to be the only person that has them in hand tonight for sale.
585-991
2017 MS70 FDOI
High Relief American Eagle
Palladium Coin
HSN Price $2199,95 SOLD OUT BUT MCM HAS THEM FDOI MUCH CHEAPER SEE POST AT BOTTOM CHANGED 10-2-17
And he is claiming that they the Mint will not come out with another coin ever! OMG its to much money I think he is charging to much but then there is some guy on
Ebay selling his for
$2400.00 Pre-Sale November 1st
PCGS 2017
First Strike MS70
So not only is this guy asking more money but he does not have it in the vault. I'm going over to the Coin Vault and see what they have!
@Kudbegud said:
Mike can sure talk. But I only believe about 1/2 of what he says.
Yes I just read an article where they are coming out with a proof coin in 2018. I will wait for one of the other guys to get some 70's in cant see paying double for 1 coin. I am jealous though he claims to have them in his hands when every body else are about 25 days out! It did look cool had a neat greenish / redish tint to it as it moves around! Very impressive, I taped it! Cant help it coin talk I guess.
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:
(12) A $25 coin of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, that weighs 1 troy ounce and contains .9995 fine palladium.
(v) Palladium Bullion Investment Coins.—
(1) In general.—
The Secretary shall mint and issue the palladium coins described in paragraph (12) of subsection (a) in such quantities as the Secretary may determine to be appropriate to meet demand. (2) Source of bullion.—
(A)In general.—
To the greatest extent possible, the Secretary shall acquire bullion for the palladium coins issued under this subsection by purchase of palladium mined from natural deposits in the United States, or in a territory or possession of the United States, within 1 year after the month in which the ore from which it is derived was mined. If no such palladium is available or if it is not economically feasible to obtain such palladium, the Secretary may obtain palladium for the palladium coins described in paragraph (12) of subsection (a) from other available sources.
(B)Price of bullion.—
The Secretary shall pay not more than the average world price for the palladium under subparagraph (A). (3) Sale of coins.—
Each coin issued under this subsection shall be sold for an amount the Secretary determines to be appropriate, but not less than the sum of—
(A) the market value of the bullion at the time of sale; and
(B) the cost of designing and issuing the coins, including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, distribution, and shipping. (4) Treatment.—
For purposes of section 5134 and 5136, all coins minted under this subsection shall be considered to be numismatic items. (5) Quality.— The Secretary may issue collectible versions of the coins described in paragraph (1) in both proof and uncirculated versions, except that, should the Secretary determine that it is appropriate to issue proof or uncirculated versions of such coin, the Secretary shall, to the greatest extent possible, ensure that the surface treatment of each year’s proof or uncirculated version differs in some material way from that of the preceding year. (6) Design.—
Coins minted and issued under this subsection shall bear designs on the obverse and reverse that are close likenesses of the work of famed American coin designer and medallic artist Adolph Alexander Weinman—
(A) the obverse shall bear a high-relief likeness of the “Winged Liberty” design used on the obverse of the so-called “Mercury dime”;
(B) the reverse shall bear a high-relief version of the reverse design of the 1907 American Institute of Architects medal; and
(C) the coin shall bear such other inscriptions, including “Liberty”, “In God We Trust”, “United States of America”, the denomination and weight of the coin and the fineness of the metal, as the Secretary determines to be appropriate and in keeping with the original design. (7) Mint facility.— Any United States mint, other than the United States Mint at West Point, New York, may be used to strike coins minted under this subsection other than any proof version of any such coin. If the Secretary determines that it is appropriate to issue any proof version of such coin, coins of such version shall be struck only at the United States Mint at West Point, New York.
@BillDugan1959 said:
Well, we do know that the Ancient Egyptians saw Gold as especially valuable, and in the 40+ centuries since then, Gold has never gone to zero (though there were short times when human society was so upset and turned upside down that you could not safely let other people know that you had some Gold). So I think that while the purchasing power of Gold may fluctuate, it remains valid as a form of savings/ insurance.
I am impressed that the U.S.Mint had an inventory of at least 15,000 palladium coins for starters. Best not to run out on the first day!
I despise spellchecker!
Do you know WHY everyone thought gold (and silver) were valuable? They were the ONLY metals found unalloyed in nature. You can pick up shiny gold and silver rocks in stream beds that look metallic. Everything else from iron to copper to aluminum needs to be refined before it looks shiny and metallic.
So gold is valuable because primitive man didn't know how to make iron yet. Iron, which was far more useful to later primitive men as weapons and plows.
I'd like a 4 coin set in different finishes of Platinum (enhanced unc), Rhodium (reverse proof), Osmium (proof) and Ruthenium (Unc). I think that would make a cool set.
I am glad I waited MCM just announced they are taking orders again just in case anybody was looking to lock in a MS70. They are pre-sales but their FDOI is not a crazy amount like HSN was advertising.
@Gluggo said:
I am glad I waited MCM just announced they are taking orders again just in case anybody was looking to lock in a MS70. They are pre-sales but their FDOI is not a crazy amount like HSN was advertising.
@Schmitz7 said:
Palladium is off $26 per ounce today. You should be able to pick up a raw one in the $1025 range. Send it in yourself for grading and save some money.
Or be happy with a raw version as it is likely those have been culled from the 70's herd..
Kind of funny, in a twisted sort of way, to think a raw, newly issued coin is possibly, already culled from the 70's herd. It's got beautiful artwork, allegorically speaking... just the same. And I think I want one for a type set.
@jmski52 said:
Frankly, I'm holding out for a rhodium coin.
I've always liked Osmium, the noble metal with the highest density.
You mentioned osmium and I recall a book by david drake , it was Sci Fi novel called "Forlorn Hope" , where the guns carried by the soldiers fired osmium slugs thru squeeze bore barrels . Kicking up a notch I suppose , the current concept of the tungsten carbide or depleted uranium slugs used with the german WW2 era squeeze bore anti tank guns , then miniaturized into a rifle sized package with a diamond barrel . Kinda sounds like the F-35 of sidearms to me
This has been the Oct 2nd edition of fun facts about obscure metals. Tune in next week for some tips on making the perfect Thorium milkshake.
APMEX has a Black Labeled PCGS (First Strike) Not sure whats so special about that but I do like the PCGS's over NGC. Dont know why they seem to retain their value more or maybe I am just crazy.
Comments
MilesWaits: Did you read this was going to be a one time deal and we will never see Palladium bullion coins produced again? I missed reading that. But, I really was not paying that close attention. Link that announcement please and thanks. Wondercoin
Either creativity has waned and is gone, or political correctness is scaring the creative.
Coins are regurgitating old designs.
TV shows and movies are being made of prior titles and designs (Hawaii 5-0, etc).
People can't, or won't, come up with things on their own.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
OPA
It was the lying and denial that left a bad taste in my mouth about APMEX. Forum members had proof positive. I have been very hesitant to deal with them since. I did buy an ATB chest with drawers to house my pucks. But they don't enter my bullion buying decision at all. You are more forgiving and a better man I OPA.
At least you know people are reading it though .... so you got that going for ya
I heard a rumor that next year they are coming out with Hawaii 6-0 , gotta be at least 20% better
@MilesWaits said:
It's in the law, right next to the Silver, Gold and Platinum Eagles.
And the mint already confirmed the collector version(s) are coming next year.
I see it like the platinum's too. Popular for the first couple of years (people putting them into IRA's?), but then demand base collapses. The major difference is the Palladium Eagle will have no fractionals to keep it popular.
There is a column for palladium eagle sales totals on the mint website:
https://www.usmint.gov/bullion-sales?program=American+Eagle&+AmericatheBeautifulSilverBullion5ozCointype=&+AmericanBuffalotype=&+AmericanEagletype=Sales+totals+by+Month&AmericatheBeautifulSilverBullion5ozCoinSalestotalsbyMonthyear=&AmericanBuffaloSalestotalsbyMonthyear=&AmericanBuffaloYear-datedcoinssoldyear=&AmericanEagleSalestotalsbyMonthyear=903&AmericanEagleYear-datedcoinssoldyear=
FYI...APMEX is down to 62 raw coins.....going, going....will be gone by next week.
as of 9/28..back up to 467. Must have got another shipment in.
Interesting article in news.coinupdate.com/american-palladium-eagle-takes-flight/
Fills in details that may not be commonly known
The price of palladium closed in US exchange ahead of platinum today. It will be interesting to see if palladium becomes the new premier product out of the mint over its less valuable cousin, platinum.
I want to buy a 2017 1 oz Palladium American Eagle MS-70 PCGS (First Strike) or a MS-70 NGC perfect coin but all the big boys are SOLD OUT!!!!! Does that mean I am SOL or will there be more coming. I heard only 15,000 were going to be produced. I don't want a 69 or 68 and for a Benjiman seems like the right move to make. Since we can't buy them cause were not one of the luck'ies.
I have no idea what the 70 pop will be, but with 15,000 total coins produced & the Mint's authorized buyers getting first dips, there will be more available from them soon.
There will be more, but they will also cost more...you could always just get a raw one.
Yes thank you I might just have to do that!
I don't understand about the complaints about percentage rates over spot. If you want palladium, just as a metal, by palladium bars. Even that is expensive compared to an ETF.
Desigining a new coin, paying artists, engineers, making dies, recalibrating machines, etc, all this cost money and man hours. It's crazy that anyone thinks that more than 5% over spot is too much.
Agreed. Take a look at the Maple Palladium and see how much they are over spot. And they are a lot less exciting than this issue. I like both though.
It's not really a complaint, it's just an acknowledgement that the price will collapse to a little over spot as soon as you buy it. Look at the secondary market for palladium maple leafs.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-oz-Canadian-Palladium-Maple-Leaf-50-Coin-9995-Fine-Random-Year-/201803473365?epid=127171129&hash=item2efc6ca1d5:g:emcAAOSw-0xYkman
It's the resale issue. These will only trade on the secondary market at a little over spot. Look at the secondary market for palladium maple leafs. They will sell for $100-$150 over spot new, but the trade for $50 over on the secondary market which means the wholesale price is spot or even 2% below spot.
If you want to own it for 20 years, no big deal. If you are buying it to invest in Palladium, forget it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-oz-Canadian-Palladium-Maple-Leaf-50-Coin-9995-Fine-Random-Year-/201803473365?epid=127171129&hash=item2efc6ca1d5:g:emcAAOSw-0xYkman
I don't buy coins as investments.
Making assumptions about future pricing based on projected spot or decrease in value is speculation.
Wait until Monday Oct 2,2017. You'll have a chance to get what you want from The Coin Vault. On the show last night, they indicated they would have these available starting Monday.
I am eager to get the next 2 items released and think the 4 coin Liberty Silver Commem is worth a look. At least that will have 3 coins with separate mint marks and a reasonable limit on production. Plus it will be 200 vs 1K
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Frankly, I'm holding out for a rhodium coin.
I knew it would happen.
Thank you but I am a newbie in coin collecting is the Coin Vault one of those rip your money off, and that later your sorry you bought from them. I usually find them on Ebay but right now no body is selling. I mean it sounds like I would do better to wait it out judging from some of the posts. Maybe wait a few years and see where this goes.
You will pay a a lot for this piece on that show. stay away. Sorry, I was being facetious.
Got it Thank you Jazz!
I agree with the below statement....however, how many that say it, even if they mean it, care about getting less than they paid when/if they have to sell, or want to sell?
I know I do.
While I may not buy coins as "investments", and while I don't sell a lot, when I do sell, the few times I have sold at a loss have really bothered me.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I don't believe so. First of all, the Liberty set are not coins but medals. It might be a luke warm item for a short period of time, but will cool off just like all previous medal offering from the Mint. On the other hand, the Limited Edition 2017 Silver Proof Set should be a winner.
While I may not buy coins as "investments", and while I don't sell a lot, when I do sell, the few times I have sold at a loss have really bothered me.
There are no guarantees in life.
One of the very first things I learned about coins is that sometimes a penny is "worth" more than a penny. From that point onward, I was hooked into finding a coin that was "worth" more than what I obtained it for. Fascinating stuff, when you're a kid. Coins are a special subset of the collectibles market that is subject to many seemingly unrelated variables that are sometimes hard to track.
When you become an investor/speculator, you realize that there are no guarantees in either direction.
I prefer precious metals over collectible coins as a potential investment. The thing about precious metals coins/medals is that they are part of a larger subset (the bullion market) that is part of a larger subset (financial markets) that is part of a larger subset (the economy).
So, it's always interesting to analyze where and how it all fits together.
I knew it would happen.
I'd like that, actually. But I wish they made this palladium coin, and that future rhodium one, in smaller sizes. I really want one of these, but I can't bring myself to spend $1000. I would see this as sunk cost and not any investment, and that is just too much to spend for me.
Problem with a smaller coin is that you are almost guaranteed to lose money because the premium is so high. A 1/10th oz palladium coin would pobably not sell at 10% over spot from the mint because of the fixed costs of production.
These issues need to be bought to collect, not to invest. Actually, that's true of pretty much everything the Mint makes, when new. Even AGE's and ASE's are usually significantly cheaper on the secondary market.
Honestly, gold is just a pretty bauble too. Might as well buy a shiny cent.
90% of gold use is cosmetic It is "collected" (hoarded?) for historical reasons. If those reasons changed due to either evolution or price, gold could easily crash.
NOTHING is a guaranteed winner and all should be bought with a certain sense of gambling.
Well, we do know that the Ancient Egyptians saw Gold as especially valuable, and in the 40+ centuries since then, Gold has never gone to zero (though there were short times when human society was so upset and turned upside down that you could not safely let other people know that you had some Gold). So I think that while the purchasing power of Gold may fluctuate, it remains valid as a form of savings/ insurance.
I am impressed that the U.S.Mint had an inventory of at least 15,000 palladium coins for starters. Best not to run out on the first day!
I despise spellchecker!
Well said, Jmski!
When I stop enjoying what I'm doing, I stop what I'm doing.
There are a few things I really love to do and this is one of them.
SOLD OUT BUT MCM HAS THEM FDOI MUCH CHEAPER SEE POST AT BOTTOM CHANGED 10-2-17
Well tonight Mike on HSN has the Palladium MS 70's and he is claiming to be the only person that has them in hand tonight for sale.
585-991
2017 MS70 FDOI
High Relief American Eagle
Palladium Coin
HSN Price $2199,95 SOLD OUT BUT MCM HAS THEM FDOI MUCH CHEAPER SEE POST AT BOTTOM CHANGED 10-2-17
And he is claiming that they the Mint will not come out with another coin ever! OMG its to much money I think he is charging to much but then there is some guy on
Ebay selling his for
$2400.00 Pre-Sale November 1st
PCGS 2017
First Strike MS70
So not only is this guy asking more money but he does not have it in the vault. I'm going over to the Coin Vault and see what they have!
Mike can sure talk. But I only believe about 1/2 of what he says.
Yes I just read an article where they are coming out with a proof coin in 2018. I will wait for one of the other guys to get some 70's in cant see paying double for 1 coin. I am jealous though he claims to have them in his hands when every body else are about 25 days out! It did look cool had a neat greenish / redish tint to it as it moves around! Very impressive, I taped it! Cant help it coin talk I guess.
here comes the law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5112
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:
(12) A $25 coin of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, that weighs 1 troy ounce and contains .9995 fine palladium.
(v) Palladium Bullion Investment Coins.—
(1) In general.—
The Secretary shall mint and issue the palladium coins described in paragraph (12) of subsection (a) in such quantities as the Secretary may determine to be appropriate to meet demand.
(2) Source of bullion.—
(A)In general.—
To the greatest extent possible, the Secretary shall acquire bullion for the palladium coins issued under this subsection by purchase of palladium mined from natural deposits in the United States, or in a territory or possession of the United States, within 1 year after the month in which the ore from which it is derived was mined. If no such palladium is available or if it is not economically feasible to obtain such palladium, the Secretary may obtain palladium for the palladium coins described in paragraph (12) of subsection (a) from other available sources.
(B)Price of bullion.—
The Secretary shall pay not more than the average world price for the palladium under subparagraph (A).
(3) Sale of coins.—
Each coin issued under this subsection shall be sold for an amount the Secretary determines to be appropriate, but not less than the sum of—
(A) the market value of the bullion at the time of sale; and
(B) the cost of designing and issuing the coins, including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, distribution, and shipping.
(4) Treatment.—
For purposes of section 5134 and 5136, all coins minted under this subsection shall be considered to be numismatic items.
(5) Quality.—
The Secretary may issue collectible versions of the coins described in paragraph (1) in both proof and uncirculated versions, except that, should the Secretary determine that it is appropriate to issue proof or uncirculated versions of such coin, the Secretary shall, to the greatest extent possible, ensure that the surface treatment of each year’s proof or uncirculated version differs in some material way from that of the preceding year.
(6) Design.—
Coins minted and issued under this subsection shall bear designs on the obverse and reverse that are close likenesses of the work of famed American coin designer and medallic artist Adolph Alexander Weinman—
(A) the obverse shall bear a high-relief likeness of the “Winged Liberty” design used on the obverse of the so-called “Mercury dime”;
(B) the reverse shall bear a high-relief version of the reverse design of the 1907 American Institute of Architects medal; and
(C) the coin shall bear such other inscriptions, including “Liberty”, “In God We Trust”, “United States of America”, the denomination and weight of the coin and the fineness of the metal, as the Secretary determines to be appropriate and in keeping with the original design.
(7) Mint facility.—
Any United States mint, other than the United States Mint at West Point, New York, may be used to strike coins minted under this subsection other than any proof version of any such coin. If the Secretary determines that it is appropriate to issue any proof version of such coin, coins of such version shall be struck only at the United States Mint at West Point, New York.
Thank you MsMorrisine!
I've always liked Osmium, the noble metal with the highest density.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
My choice: Amazonium
Do you know WHY everyone thought gold (and silver) were valuable? They were the ONLY metals found unalloyed in nature. You can pick up shiny gold and silver rocks in stream beds that look metallic. Everything else from iron to copper to aluminum needs to be refined before it looks shiny and metallic.
So gold is valuable because primitive man didn't know how to make iron yet. Iron, which was far more useful to later primitive men as weapons and plows.
You can hoard steel ploughs if you wish, but they are too large to hide in a wool sock or a safe deposit box.
I'd like a 4 coin set in different finishes of Platinum (enhanced unc), Rhodium (reverse proof), Osmium (proof) and Ruthenium (Unc). I think that would make a cool set.
I am glad I waited MCM just announced they are taking orders again just in case anybody was looking to lock in a MS70. They are pre-sales but their FDOI is not a crazy amount like HSN was advertising.
2017 1 oz High Relief Palladium Eagle $25 Coin NGC MS70 First Day of Issue Black Core Holder Exclusive U.S. Mint 225th Anniversary
$1349
2017 1 oz High Relief Palladium Eagle $25 Coin NGC MS70 Early Release Black Core Holder Exclusive U.S. Mint 225th Anniversary Label
$1249
$100 difference for first day vs. early release label and NGC to boot.
Palladium is off $26 per ounce today. You should be able to pick up a raw one in the $1025 range. Send it in yourself for grading and save some money.
Or be happy with a raw version as it is likely those have been culled from the 70's herd..
Kind of funny, in a twisted sort of way, to think a raw, newly issued coin is possibly, already culled from the 70's herd. It's got beautiful artwork, allegorically speaking... just the same. And I think I want one for a type set.
You mentioned osmium and I recall a book by david drake , it was Sci Fi novel called "Forlorn Hope" , where the guns carried by the soldiers fired osmium slugs thru squeeze bore barrels . Kicking up a notch I suppose , the current concept of the tungsten carbide or depleted uranium slugs used with the german WW2 era squeeze bore anti tank guns , then miniaturized into a rifle sized package with a diamond barrel . Kinda sounds like the F-35 of sidearms to me
This has been the Oct 2nd edition of fun facts about obscure metals. Tune in next week for some tips on making the perfect Thorium milkshake.
Their official stock inventory count must be in cause APMEX now has theirs for sale.
https://www.apmex.com/search?q=2017 1oz Palladium american eagle
APMEX has a Black Labeled PCGS (First Strike) Not sure whats so special about that but I do like the PCGS's over NGC. Dont know why they seem to retain their value more or maybe I am just crazy.