The new $25 Dollar Palladium coin

Onastone

According to Coin World, we may see the birth of a new bullion coin.

" U.S. Mint will start selling palladium American Eagle bullion coins in September: When the U.S. Mint issues its first American Eagle bullion coin struck in .9995 fine palladium, it will be a West Point Mint product with no Mint mark."

This will be known as the APE coin!@!

Designs used will be Adolph A. Weinman's, so it'll be an instant classic. Wait, what....it's going to look like a GIANT MERCURY DIME!! The Eagle on the reverse looks great, used before on a medal from 1906, and pressed in high relief.

Another series to collect...

If Palladium is costing 908.00 an ounce, any guesses on what these coins will be offered for? $1200 .... I guess I won't be collecting these like the ASE's.

Overdate

@Onastone said:
This will be known as the APE coin!@!

I think the platinum eagle has already acquired the rights to that title.

ricko

I have no real interest in this coin. My focus will remain with silver and gold.... Cheers, RickO

Onastone

@Overdate said:

I think the platinum eagle has already acquired the rights to that title.

Yikes that's right. Hmmmm, APAE? I think we'll probably just call it the Giant Mercury.

bronco2078

Bold move on the part of the US mint , strike a coin in Palladium , a metal no one is cares about , and make the obverse and reverse copies of other coins.

We can only hope it sells for a huge premium and they make far to many for the non existent demand.

Cougar1978

What's wrong with new designs - why all this cooy old designs?

BStrauss3

I'm calling it the WGARFP - Who Gives A Rat's Furry Posterior

pf70collector

News about the Palladium coin below. Too expensive for me.

https://ngccoin.com/news/article/6097/palladium-eagle-label/?utm_source=Marketo&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=NGC%20eNews%20September%202017&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTjJSaFpESmxZVFEyWm1VMSIsInQiOiJJemJaT1ZYTHBiSVp2UTZjU2ZOb1U5ZHJ1SU5iVU9VRyt5aldGSW9RMEU5SmFrNUpxcG5CaUlSSVwvdURibXRBREVQRlgzTUFuTGRUVkwreXNRS21nTm9VTTBYdGYxSmlMWHBVZFlZUmlZK2dJN09EdUo3R0VlekhPWkpYR3NLYWcifQ%3D%3D

Zoins

Here are the US Mint mockups. The reverse is from a digital scan of the original plaster:

The AIA was instrumental in helping with the coin’s reverse design, giving the U.S. Mint access to a 14-inch diameter plaster for the medal and an actual 1907 2-1/4-inch AIA gold medal. The U.S. Mint digitally scanned the plaster and photographed the medal to aid in their design development.

http://www.coinnews.net/2017/03/22/american-palladium-eagle-designs-reviewed/

steveben

cool design.

bronco2078

Its pathetic to keep reusing these old designs. The US mint has become a cargo cult .

MsMorrisine

I'll wait a week when the price of palladium is $600

CascadeChris

@Overdate said:

@Onastone said:
This will be known as the APE coin!@!

I think the platinum eagle has already acquired the rights to that title.

We can call this one the apple eagle coin. 'APLE' for business strikes & "APPLE' for proofs

Zoins

@bronco2078 said:
Its pathetic to keep reusing these old designs. The US mint has become a cargo cult.

For better or worse, a lot of collectors like old designs.

Perhaps they can move to a rotating design like the APEs.

CoinCrazyPA

Im waiting until Palladium is under $300. I may never own one and thats fine.

bronco2078

@Zoins said:

@bronco2078 said:
Its pathetic to keep reusing these old designs. The US mint has become a cargo cult.

For better or worse, a lot of collectors like old designs.

Perhaps they can move to a rotating design like the APEs.

If they were pandering to collectors it would be one thing , but there aren't any for this coin.

MsMorrisine

@MsMorrisine said:
I'll wait a week when the price of palladium is $600

PD market price volatility joke!

TwoSides2aCoin

That is a beautiful piece. My guess is the $1200 range. The mint can price it where our soft spot is. They know our weaknesses.

jmlanzaf

I'd buy a 1/10 oz palladium eagle, but 1 oz is a bit steep.

Palladium is industrially largely equivalent to platinum. Both are far more useful than gold and far scarcer in nature.

epcjimi1

No initial mention of strike qty, hope USMint does not mint to demand, rather USMint says "We got 10,000 ea., here ya go."

Probably USMint will mint their brains out and over produce.

Palladium? USMint missed this boat by four years? Four years ago this catalytic converter metal would of sold out. Now? Not so much.

BackroadJunkie

@Zoins said:

@bronco2078 said:
Its pathetic to keep reusing these old designs. The US mint has become a cargo cult.

For better or worse, a lot of collectors like old designs.

Perhaps they can move to a rotating design like the APEs.

This is strictly a bullion issue. There will be no collector version this year.

It feels like the palladium run-up was specifically for this coin. Doubling spot in two years? Not buying bullion in a such a volatile market.

TommyType

Does the metal actually look like the mock-ups? Sort of drab gray?

I kind of like it....it's different.

Or, does it LOOK like silver and/or platinum, shiny and "silvery"?

asheland

I like the design, but the pricing now is a little inconvenient.

MsMorrisine

this is going to be bullion and not proof.

the proof parts on a palladium maple are shiny and kind of remind me a bit of slightly weathered chrome.

the non-proof parts of a palladium maple are slightly gray. it is only a bit more gray than an ase. it's not displeasing.

that dark gray is nothing like it. the gray is lighter than the border around the forum pages. it's not quite silver gray.

Zoins

@BackroadJunkie said:

@Zoins said:

@bronco2078 said:
Its pathetic to keep reusing these old designs. The US mint has become a cargo cult.

For better or worse, a lot of collectors like old designs.

Perhaps they can move to a rotating design like the APEs.

This is strictly a bullion issue. There will be no collector version this year.

It feels like the palladium run-up was specifically for this coin. Doubling spot in two years? Not buying bullion in a such a volatile market.

There are a lot of bullion ASE collectors so bullion doesn't mean no collectors.

ms70

Why no mint mark? WTH is up with that?

Zoins

@ms70 said:
Why no mint mark? WTH is up with that?

Mint marks are for collector coins, not bullion coins. Remember the no-W West Point ASEs?

MsMorrisine

@ms70 said:
Why no mint mark? WTH is up with that?

bullion

just request info from the mint about minting locations.

air4mdc

Just another way to sucker people in to make some some money on the premiums using a classic design on a bullion most are not the least bit interested in. I'll stick with gold and silver too.

RichieURich

Not buying any because this palladium coin is a gift from the government to the one company mining palladium in the U. S.

The government doesn't guarantee that my business makes a profit, why should they do that for this company?

MedalCollector

@RichieURich said:
Not buying any because this palladium coin is a gift from the government to the one company mining palladium in the U. S.

The government doesn't guarantee that my business makes a profit, why should they do that for this company?

You're lot lobbying hard enough, or working hard enough to get you're buddies elected

Regrettably, I actually don't know the backstory to this coin's legislation.

RichieURich

GoldenEgg and others:

Here is a relevant thread about this issue: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/946759/bill-in-congress-requires-secretary-of-the-treasury-to-strike-palladium-bullion-coins

Zoins

@RichieURich said:
GoldenEgg and others:

Here is a relevant thread about this issue: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/946759/bill-in-congress-requires-secretary-of-the-treasury-to-strike-palladium-bullion-coins

Thanks for the link. I was trying to dig that up to find the US Mint Palladium Study again but you found it first

BackroadJunkie

@Zoins said:

@BackroadJunkie said:

@Zoins said:

@bronco2078 said:
Its pathetic to keep reusing these old designs. The US mint has become a cargo cult.

For better or worse, a lot of collectors like old designs.

Perhaps they can move to a rotating design like the APEs.

This is strictly a bullion issue. There will be no collector version this year.

It feels like the palladium run-up was specifically for this coin. Doubling spot in two years? Not buying bullion in a such a volatile market.

There are a lot of bullion ASE collectors so bullion doesn't mean no collectors.

Yep. I'm one of them.

But this coin will be a bullion issue, and bullion doesn't change designs, like ever. Even though the proof plats got different designs every year, the bullion plats remained the same. (I'm pretty sure that's true. I'm not a platinum guy.)

derryb

One for Dimeman?

derryb

@Onastone said:

If Palladium is costing 908.00 an ounce, any guesses on what these coins will be offered for? $1200 .... I guess I won't be collecting these like the ASE's.

Still no mention of palladium in the Mint's PM pricing grid

TwoSides2aCoin

The government loves us and wants us to be happy.

jmlanzaf

Platinum and palladium are really the most industrial of the metals. Gold is a vanity metal and silver, while industrial, is more common by orders of magnitude.

I just wish they had smaller denominations available.

jmlanzaf

@BackroadJunkie said:

@Zoins said:

@bronco2078 said:
Its pathetic to keep reusing these old designs. The US mint has become a cargo cult.

For better or worse, a lot of collectors like old designs.

Perhaps they can move to a rotating design like the APEs.

This is strictly a bullion issue. There will be no collector version this year.

It feels like the palladium run-up was specifically for this coin. Doubling spot in two years? Not buying bullion in a such a volatile market.

Actually, the palladium run-up was overdue by about 10-15 years.

Palladium and platinum are catalytic metals and have the same basic industrial use. For decades, however, catalytic converters used platinum only and even with occasional supply disruptions from the Soviet Union (now Russia) and South Africa, who together have about 90% of known platinum reserves, industries refused to change and use palladium. Even when platinum was at $1000 and palladium under $300. In the last several years, however, they have started to use both and - surprise! suprise! - the price of platinum and palladium have achieved parity.

jmlanzaf

Honestly, if there was a proof tenth ounce palladium coin, I'd buy several.

A bullion one ounce coin...I'd only pay spot + 1% as a tradeable investment. I wouldn't pay a premium to store it for years.

7Jaguars

There was not a critical mass available of palladium for usage in cats.

shorecoll

Does anyone know if either Platinum or Palladium are used in electric vehicles? If not, you may get your $300 price. Platinum is still a scarce commodity, but if there's no use for it, hmmm!!!

Zoins

@shorecoll said:
Does anyone know if either Platinum or Palladium are used in electric vehicles? If not, you may get your $300 price. Platinum is still a scarce commodity, but if there's no use for it, hmmm!!!

This is interesting:

https://www.sunshineprofits.com/gold-silver/free-alerts/will-electric-car-revolution-sink-platinum-and-palladium/

• Winners: lithium, cobalt (100x), manganese (100x), graphite (65x), nickel (65x), aluminum (65x), neodymium
• Losers: platinum (-53%), palladium (-53%), rhodium (-53%)

One could say that since the automotive sector accounts for about 80 percent of demand for palladium and for about 40 percent of demand for platinum, the former metal may actually be hit harder in the long-run. However, it would be the case under a scenario of flat total automotive sales. But with the 33-percent expected increase in new light duty vehicle sales overall by 2030, platinum is likely to suffer more. One thing is clear: although there may be some short-term volatility, neither platinum nor palladium look as attractive as a long-term investment as does gold.

While the platinum-group metals (we mean here platinum, palladium, but also rhodium) are likely to be the biggest losers (according to the UBS, the demand for them would decline by 53 percent in the world with only electric cars), other metals will benefit from the revolution. Clearly, lithium demand will soar, as most electric vehicles use lithium ion batteries (however, investors should remember that lithium is relatively abundant, while scientists are already working on solid-state batteries which do not have to rely on lithium). The same applies to cobalt and manganese. The production of each of these metals is expected to rise more than 100-fold from 2015 to 2023, while the demand for graphite, nickel and aluminum are forecasted to soar about 65 times in that period. The market in rare earth elements, neodymium in particular, could also rise.

CaptHenway

@RichieURich said:
Not buying any because this palladium coin is a gift from the government to the one company mining palladium in the U. S.

The government doesn't guarantee that my business makes a profit, why should they do that for this company?

Agree.

Cameonut

Many are forgetting that these metals are commonly recycled. As one of the engineers that helped to set up the "above ground mine" for recycling GM catalytic converters, I'd wager that these days a significant portion of the auto usage is from recycled converters. Johnson-Matthey usually had estimates in their annual report which I haven't even checked for 15 years.

Also remember that most industrial users sign long term contracts with the mines which may have no relation to the spot market. Car companies need metal and mines need to know that they have a base business to operate with. Catalytic converters use platinum, palladium, and rhodium in small quantities plus some rare earth elements in the coatings.

As mentioned previously, Russia and South Africa are the main sources - not exactly the most stable countries.

What you can expect is market manipulation by all involved. The more I learned about these markets, the more I realized that trading or buying metals is not for the faint of heart.

ShinyThingsInPM

Mint ANNOUNCEMENT
https://www.usmint.gov/news/press-releases/united-states-mint-launches-new-palladium-bullion-coin-program?cm_mmc=ExactTarget--Campaign--20170919+News+Release+USM+Bullion+Coin+Program-_-BullionCoinProgram&utm_source=Campaign&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_content=BullionCoinProgram&utm_campaign=20170919+News+Release+USM+Bullion+Coin+Program&cm_mmca1=NewsRelease&cm_mmca2=All&cm_mmca3=BullionCoinProgram

jmlanzaf

@Cameonut said:
Many are forgetting that these metals are commonly recycled. As one of the engineers that helped to set up the "above ground mine" for recycling GM catalytic converters, I'd wager that these days a significant portion of the auto usage is from recycled converters. Johnson-Matthey usually had estimates in their annual report which I haven't even checked for 15 years.

Also remember that most industrial users sign long term contracts with the mines which may have no relation to the spot market. Car companies need metal and mines need to know that they have a base business to operate with. Catalytic converters use platinum, palladium, and rhodium in small quantities plus some rare earth elements in the coatings.

As mentioned previously, Russia and South Africa are the main sources - not exactly the most stable countries.

What you can expect is market manipulation by all involved. The more I learned about these markets, the more I realized that trading or buying metals is not for the faint of heart.

Recycling is over 90%

jmlanzaf

The other thing to consider in the longer term is that electric cars don't use catalytic converters.

Pokermandude

It should be called an APDE, as Pd is the symbol for Palladium.

BAJJERFAN

I think it would be neat if they made the coin in palladium, silver, gold, copper and platinum.

TurboSnail

American Eagle Palladium Bullion Coins will be made available to United States Mint Authorized Purchasers at a** 6.25 **percent premium over the prevailing price of palladium.