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difference between silver tarnish and silver toning?

derrybderryb Posts: 36,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

One is pretty and colorful and one is usually not.
Why do we not just call black tarnishing what it is when it comes to silver coins? After all we call it tarnish when it appears on other forms of silver.

Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2017 9:09AM

    AFAIK, some do. When the tarnish, oxidation, surface corrosion, (whatever you call it - I don't keep the chemical description in my mind) is attractive or market acceptable it is called toning.

    When it is unattractive it is called tarnish, environmental damage, corrosion, etc.

    A big problem occurs at end stage toning when the surface is black. A while back there was a heated discussion of this. Many beautiful rainbow specimens have reached this stage at their edge. Black "toning" is corrosion. If a rainbow is dipped, the surface should go back to "white" with the exception of the corroded area (usually the rim). This area appears gray due to the lost and etched original surface. Occasionally, with certain coins, professional conservation can "fix" this enough to make the corroded surface "acceptable."

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    CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did ricko hijack darryb's account?

    The more you VAM..
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2017 9:25AM

    @cmerlo1 said: "Eagerly awaiting Ricko's reply..."

    ?? Do you have an opinion on the OP's question?

    Edit Added: Ahhhhhhh! How about you Chris?

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,695 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Let me help...

    My YouTube Channel

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,695 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My YouTube Channel

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    oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,915 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tarnish = bad looking

    Toning = good looking

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
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    CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    @cmerlo1 said: "Eagerly awaiting Ricko's reply..."

    ?? Do you have an opinion on the OP's question?

    Edit Added: Ahhhhhhh! How about you Chris?

    My opinion is that the word tarnish doesn't apply to coins. We call it toning and it has varying degrees. Pretty simple stuff.

    The more you VAM..
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @oih82w8 said:
    Tarnish = bad looking

    Toning = good looking

    I have seen tarnish on my wife's silverware that would have looked good on a coin.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CascadeChris said: "My opinion is that the word tarnish doesn't apply to coins. We call it toning and it has varying degrees. Pretty simple stuff."

    I disagree. Many beginning collectors - especially the females who are finicky about the appearance of their household silver - call toned coins (especially the dark, blue and violet ones) tarnished. Last weekend my wife polished away the most beautiful tarnish from some silver pieces in spite of my pleading. :(

    Some degrees of toning is environmental damage, a "pretty simple" way of saying a coin is corroded beyond help.

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    OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CascadeChris said:

    @Insider2 said:
    @cmerlo1 said: "Eagerly awaiting Ricko's reply..."

    ?? Do you have an opinion on the OP's question?

    Edit Added: Ahhhhhhh! How about you Chris?

    My opinion is that the word tarnish doesn't apply to coins. We call it toning and it has varying degrees. Pretty simple stuff.

    Coin or bullion collectors: Toning
    The rest of the world: Tarnish

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
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    rte592rte592 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tarnish

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rte592 said:
    Tarnish

    Yes, and also toning, right Chris? :wink::wink:

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    drwstr123drwstr123 Posts: 7,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Easy...
    Silver tarnish is when silver needs a cleaning
    Silver toning is when it doesn't

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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,858 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tarnish can ruin a coin. Toning can save it.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When buying: Tarnish.
    When selling: Toning.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    @cmerlo1 said: "Eagerly awaiting Ricko's reply..."

    ?? Do you have an opinion on the OP's question?

    Edit Added: Ahhhhhhh! How about you Chris?

    Toning is tarnish. We numismatists just give it a better name and find some of it to be attractive when it's on coins.

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,737 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2017 5:06PM

    To a chemist or metallurgist, there is no difference. Corrosion = toning = tarnish = environmental damage.

    To a numismatist, corrosion = environmental damage, toning = more $$, and tarnish = less $$.

    To a coin doctor, corrosion or environmental damage = more $$.

    Got it?

    :)

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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Silverware tarnishes....Silver coins tone. I have never seen pretty toning on silverware. It's probably the difference in the composition.

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    CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rte592 said:
    Tarnish

    Wrong... Toning :wink:

    The more you VAM..
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    BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some call today's music beautifully inspiring. Others call it cacophonous noise.

    It's all in the eye of the beholder.

    Tarnish or toning, in the end it's all oxidation.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All tarnish, whether attractive (to some collectors) or not, is environmental damage. That is scientific, metallurgical fact. The term 'toning' was introduced to give the damage a softer, more marketable title. Initially, it was deemed to indicate a 'virgin' surface... soon, collectors began to learn this was not necessarily true. However, the hype continued, and new collectors were 'trained' to believe that this was not only acceptable, but desired. Enter the profit seekers (normally termed coin doctors) and the market grew, as did the premiums. Along with this phenomenon came the battle over AT or NT. This was seen as a challenge by the coin doctors.... and methods were derived to tarnish coins quickly and - in many cases - totally undetectable - I know, I have done it (never sold one). So, it continues... prices are marked up - and paid - for environmentally damaged coins....because they are 'pretty'... The only differences between tarnish and toning is appearance and price. You pay your money and take your chance. Cheers, RickO

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    All tarnish, whether attractive (to some collectors) or not, is environmental damage. That is scientific, metallurgical fact. The term 'toning' was introduced to give the damage a softer, more marketable title. Initially, it was deemed to indicate a 'virgin' surface... soon, collectors began to learn this was not necessarily true. However, the hype continued, and new collectors were 'trained' to believe that this was not only acceptable, but desired. Enter the profit seekers (normally termed coin doctors) and the market grew, as did the premiums. Along with this phenomenon came the battle over AT or NT. This was seen as a challenge by the coin doctors.... and methods were derived to tarnish coins quickly and - in many cases - totally undetectable - I know, I have done it (never sold one). So, it continues... prices are marked up - and paid - for environmentally damaged coins....because they are 'pretty'... The only differences between tarnish and toning is appearance and price. You pay your money and take your chance. Cheers, RickO

    This:

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell

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