Collectible Silver Bars vs. Generic Silver Bars

cmanbb

Who's stacking what and why?

Generic is just that, generic...Silvertowne, Scottdale, AMPEX, NTR, OPM, Pamp Suisse, Gieger and the list goes on.
All make great bars, by the tens of thousands, and some premiums are within reason, others not so much.
Silver goes up, theses go up. Silver goes down, these go down.

The collector bars are another story. If you know your collector bars, the price of silver does not apply so much.
I've seen some good examples on these boards as to someone finding an unusual bar and getting BIG money for them.
Granted, I haven't a clue what they paid for these collector bars, but the realized prices are phenomenal to say the least.

So are you a generic bar stacker or a collector bar stacker.

OPA

Generic. Not interested in high premium "collector" bars. Those are for collectors and I'm not one of them.

Downtown1974

I have a few premium pieces but 95% of my stack is generic and government issue pieces.

NVU

Stack generics and collect premium bars. BTW, I don't consider pamp Suisse is generic at all. Some bars can get high premium but not as crazy high as JM and Engel though.

cmanbb

I consider bars that are still manufactured today generic. JM Kilo's with the SLC hallmark are still being produced currently............hence, generic

cohodk

I stack silver, not premium.

NVU

@cmanbb said:
I consider bars that are still manufactured today generic. JM Kilo's with the SLC hallmark are still being produced currently............hence, generic

Fair enough.....that is one way to see it
However, I consider any bar/item that have high premium attach to it should considered collectible, since demand drives up the price to make it collectible as such....

piecesofme

I paid $335 for this bar about 2 years ago. Why? Because in 15+ years paying attention to art bars/rounds I had never heard of one even being offered. When it was, I put in a nuclear bid to ensure the win. Did I overpay? At least two other people were willing to pay $5 less. So it may be a limited crowd I could sell to, but if I ever do, it's money in the bank.
I think you have your answer about me.

cmanbb

@NVU said:

@cmanbb said:
I consider bars that are still manufactured today generic. JM Kilo's with the SLC hallmark are still being produced currently............hence, generic

Fair enough.....that is one way to see it
However, I consider any bar/item that have high premium attach to it should considered collectible, since demand drives up the price to make it collectible as such....

Agreed, but my observation of quality silver bars being mass produced today is most of them carry significant premiums regardless. Take Scottsdale poured or pressed bars. Beautiful bars IMO, but they bring $1.50-$1.90+/oz premium, and when their 24hr. auctions end, they just start another in it's place. I've gone to many manufacturers websites, only to see their price/oz higher than what is auctioned off on eBay or their BIN prices. I get it "make it and it will sell". Still a generic bar regardless of premium. Can that same premium be gotten when selling? Not that I have seen. Case in point.....I bought 175oz of generic bars...6-10oz NTR, 1-10oz A Mark, 2-10oz eBay/RCM, 2-10oz Provident Year of the Snake/Monkey, 3-10oz RM Corp., 1-5oz Scottdale, 1-5oz Silvertowne, 1-5oz Silvertowne stacker round (nice round too) and 2-10oz OPM...... ALL for .17c/oz over spot. Some of these bars or round carry a good premium too.

My stack is ~50-50......
Up to about 6 years ago it was 100% generic. Then I started tracking/observing these collector bars selling for $xx.xx, and the same bar (or same type bar) selling for 25%+ more six months later (regardless of the price of silver). So I started buying some collector bars a few years ago (all poured, as I like the uniqueness and character) and I must say they have performed well for me as of late. While I have made a couple bucks/oz selling generic here and there as silver prices increased, the collector bar sales/trades is what has allowed my generic stack to grow very quickly for next to nothing.

So, for me, generic for when silver hits $50/oz and collector because I am a collector, and it helps my generic pile get larger

cmanbb

@piecesofme said:
I paid $335 for this bar about 2 years ago. Why? Because in 15+ years paying attention to art bars/rounds I had never heard of one even being offered. When it was, I put in a nuclear bid to ensure the win. Did I overpay? At least two other people were willing to pay $5 less. So it may be a limited crowd I could sell to, but if I ever do, it's money in the bank.
I think you have your answer about me.

I always knew about you POM...............

Weiss

Best of both worlds: I stack collectible silver when I find it at very low to no premium. Old pour Engelhard, classic JM, and recognizable lesser names when the bars are interesting, old, and in good shape.

It's neither fast nor easy. But good pieces do come up. And over 10 or 20 years, you can develop a handsome stack of A or A+ material anyone would be proud to own. Don't have that long to wait until the apocalypse? Buy B+ material when you can afford it, and cycle it out over time for the good stuff.

mbogoman

@Weiss said:
Best of both worlds: I stack collectible silver when I find it at very low to no premium. Old pour Engelhard, classic JM, and recognizable lesser names when the bars are interesting, old, and in good shape.

It's neither fast nor easy. But good pieces do come up. And over 10 or 20 years, you can develop a handsome stack of A or A+ material anyone would be proud to own. Don't have that long to wait until the apocalypse? Buy B+ material when you can afford it, and cycle it out over time for the good stuff.

Me, too. I'm in no hurry, but when something comes up that's interesting I'm ready to pounce...

NVU

Older Pamps get 2 or 3 times over melt on average. The really rare ones can get 10 x melt or more if you can locate one. Make no mistake, the bars I referred to are older Pamps with size 1oz or smaller.

cmanbb

@NVU said:
Older Pamps get 2 or 3 times over melt on average. The really rare ones can get 10 x melt or more if you can locate one. Make no mistake, the bars I referred to are older Pamps with size 1oz or smaller.

I did not know that. Got any examples/pics of these. I'd like to find one if possible?

chumley

can I be highend generic? my silver isnt that special but it is to me

mkman123

generic with a little mixed in of slightly collectible.

NVU

@cmanbb said:

@NVU said:
Older Pamps get 2 or 3 times over melt on average. The really rare ones can get 10 x melt or more if you can locate one. Make no mistake, the bars I referred to are older Pamps with size 1oz or smaller.

I did not know that. Got any examples/pics of these. I'd like to find one if possible?

Only if you remove Pamp Suisse from your generic list ....
All kidding aside, will have them post here tomorrow. Stay tuned......

LukeMarshall

@cmanbb said:
I consider bars that are still manufactured today generic. JM Kilo's with the SLC hallmark are still being produced currently............hence, generic

Johnson Matthey bars are no longer being produced as they sold there Gold and Silver refinery services to Asahi .

http://matthey.com/media_and_news/news/2014/gold-silver-refining-asahi

PerryHall

Unless it's being sold at very close to melt I don't bother to buy the generic current production bars. I've been buying vintage silver bars when I can get them near melt. I have no interest in vintage bars that are "rare and collectable" but carry a very high premium over melt value. The market for these bars are very thin and eBay (with all their fees and problems) are usually the only venue to sell them unless you know someone that's looking for that bar.

Outhaul

And, in the end, whether it's generic or collector bars, you have a given weight in silver/gold and a spot price per ounce. I can't help but look at ALL silver/gold bars/rounds this way.

Just my eversohumble opinion.

Cheers

Bob

cmanbb

@LukeMarshall said:

@cmanbb said:
I consider bars that are still manufactured today generic. JM Kilo's with the SLC hallmark are still being produced currently............hence, generic

Johnson Matthey bars are no longer being produced as they sold there Gold and Silver refinery services to Asahi .

http://matthey.com/media_and_news/news/2014/gold-silver-refining-asahi

You are correct. Asahi decided to produce silver bars with their own hallmark after the purchase of JM, but either JM produced a boatload of JM SLC Kilo bars just prior to the sale (new bars) or Asahi decided to continue production of the JM SLC Kilos until they came up with their own hallmark and phased out the JM hallmark bars.
Either way a newer bar that will gain collector value, but no time soon IMO.....FWIW Asahi dropped the ball when they started producing poured bars. Their hallmark is poorly done.

Interesting read below........

"As many of you may know Johnson Matthey has been in talks to sell their Refining Division to Asahi Holdings. It was hoped by many of us that this would not affect the production of Johnson Matthey bars. Many had hoped that the same machines in the same facilities would continue to mint the same bars as always just under new management. Some are speculating however that this may not happen.

As to the continuation of the Johnson Matthey branded bars we have been informed by inside sources that Asahi is currently seriously considering the discontinuation of the Johnson Matthey brand of precious metals bars in favor of their own branding and that Asahi plans to announce a final decision sometime in the first quarter of the year. So far we cannot confirm this will happen. With the expected close of the deal scheduled for March 31st, 2015, we are confident production of Johnson Matthey branded bars will not stop before then. If production of the JM branded bars was to stop, only time will tell if Johnson Matthey bars would gain collectible value in the market much like Engelhard silver bars have since their production ceased"

NVU

Per OP request, here are some from my pamp collection

One Ounce Bars

Fractional Bars

My favorite also a Crown Jewel in my pamp collection

asheland

I buy both. I have some rare pieces that I only paid a moderate premium on, a few that I paid higher for, but most is right around spot. It makes stacking a lot more fun.

ricko

I have a few art bars, of significance to me....no 'rare' collectible bars - that market is thin and if liquidity became an issue, I think it would be a losing venture. I like ASE's..... Cheers, RickO

Meltdown

I collected bars for a good long time. I've since sold most all the top premium pieces and bought back more with the proceeds.
I now mostly stack generic ASE's and bullion for serious and still collect when I can find interesting bullion priced right.
Here's an old pic just for fun...

Wingsrule

ASEs when a good deal appears, other than that, some premium or collectibles when they can be found.

cmanbb

@Meltdown said:
I collected bars for a good long time. I've since sold most all the top premium pieces and bought back more with the proceeds.
I now mostly stack generic ASE's and bullion for serious and still collect when I can find interesting bullion priced right.
Here's an old pic just for fun...

Nice assortment. These bars have appeal, character, some of the more plentiful pours, but still nice

cmanbb

@NVU said:
Per OP request, here are some from my pamp collection

I wouldn't know old from new unless a date was staring me in the face...lol
I take it no poured pamp bars exist?

NVU

The easiest way to differentiate old vs new are the packaging. All the ones in plastic sealed are old. The blue packaging in this thread are old compare to the new ones that you see everyday. The designs are also different.

Vintage Pamp poured bar exist in 1kg, not sure if they have 500g. Any smaller sizes are nonexistent.

erickso1

Generic, unless it is something that has a direct personal connection to me. Usually Washington State related.

JJM

I'm about 50/50

asheland

Pamp does poured gold in 100g (I once had one) and I believe 50g also.