Help- I believe this seller on ebay is making fake pcgs slabs. Please weigh in
joebb21
Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭✭✭
Im pretty sure sure seller tommyrocks69 ebay.com/itm/1880-O-Morgan-Dollar-1-MS64-PCGS-/282500063588?hash=item41c650e164:g:8uYAAOSwYlRZLOa9 is selling counterfeit pcgs holdered coins.
I remember looking at his listings and thinking some of the coins looked a little funky, but I ended up winning the 1879-o $1 pcgs ms64 back on may 24th. Today I got the coin and looked at it and the whole thing looks funky to me.
The slab feels (literally) and looks off while the coin just doesnt look right either. Kind of like a sandwhich of 2 different types of holders I looked at some of his other listings like the "newly holdered" 84-s $1 p58 and not only does the coin look off, but the font looks pixelated and not the standard holder type.
His 1897 looks good from what I can see but I just have a bad feeling and am asking for others to weigh in if they can spot more problems.
Comments
Interesting how his completed 1884-CC 65DMPL has a HA sticker on the reverse but boy that auction did bad.
The 1884-S label looks hideous and fake unless they were messing with the photos to make the pixelated like that, but it is so far gone. I don't like the area behind the hair on the coin.
This is a seller with pics just so odd it is hard to tell what is going on.
His pictures suck with all the angles. That "MS66" is no where near that. His old lady story is just funny and finally his "food luck" made me laugh.
Good luck with him all the way around!
Thanks for the alert... though looking at the offerings, most collectors will just 'walk on by'....but he will snag the unaware.... Cheers, RickO
I don't see them, did s/he remove the auctions?
Does the government care enough to prosecute this firm if they are making fake PCGS slabs? The Chinese have been flooding the country with fake coins, but the government says there is not enough money involved in that fraud to pursue the case.
If these people are marketing fake PCGS slabs, I'd love to them go to jail, but I don't know if it going to happen.
I'm not either, it said "listing has been removed". Did any one get a screenshot?
The labels had already switched to the new style. Look at what a correct label looks like compared to his label, where his is a later cert numerical number. The auction is found here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1897-1-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-MS66-RARE-OPPORTUNITY-W-No-Reserve-Gorgeous-/282486018063?hash=item41c57a900f:g:t20AAOSw42JZH6jP&nma=true&si=bsRp10L0FW9XGPV%2Bdkch96m7Mv8%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
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Here is his bogus holder and label. At least it sure looks that way:
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here is the sellers items that he sold
ebay.com/sch/tommyrocks69/m.html?_nkw&_armrs=1&_ipg&_from&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684
@Wabbit2313 Thanks for posting!
I notice he has a 100% rating, WOW!
The plastic (slab) doesn't look good either ... easy to see differences when shown side-by-side with a legit one. A little scary when shown by itself but even then it doesn't look quite right. I hate these jerks.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
On his bogus slabs, he does not appear to show the reverse label. I wonder why? He does have a couple legit slabs though.
I ran the barcode for the coin below it shows a 16 digit number as follows:0072266413663977.
The last eight numbers are the cert number. The barcode shows the coin as a PCGS 1893 S Morgan MS64.
The coin holder is 100% counterfeit.
The government does care. In fact if you read the changes that were made a few years back to the Hobby Protection Act, it allows the third party graders to go after the people who make the counterfeit holders. This is not something that happens overnight or with any kind of speed. PCGS and NGC are contributing significant resources to the ICTA ACTF to help fight against the fake coins and holders. Stay tuned and you will see changes coming.
This is awful.
So I need to buy a barcode scanner as well?
Problem is the unsuspecting schlubs who pass these on to other unsuspecting collectors.
Forever polluting the hobby and perpetuating the theft.
Another slimeball rears he's ugly head. What a mess!
Ebay should step up to the plate and go after anyone who pulls this kind of bull.
Wow, same fake barcode as in the thread on the fake 1893-S XF-40.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/981831/selling-this-rare-piece-from-my-father-in-laws-collection-to-aid-in-his-retirement
A scam or multiple scams like this could affect the entire industry.
CLCT is a big enough company to police this crap and set up stings involving police/FEDS in New Jersey.
That is a lot of coin (pardon the pun) he's made on the backs of deep pocketed and unsuspecting collectors who may never venture back into collecting.
Here's a different Counterfeit 1893-s PCGS XF-40 that also has the SAME EXACT BAR CODE as your 2 above examples. Apparently these counterfeiters are using the same bar code on all their bogus holders:
I get 1893 S PCGS XF-40 also, it's a counterfeit.
Seller lists that first auction as an 1884-cc MS65 DMPL- yet the holder clearly shows it as a PL. Can't Tommy Boy tell the difference? Nice try in putting slab up against a lotto card to "show" the mirrors. The plastic itself will show a mirror, even for coins not PL or DMPL. Duh.
You can report the item and guy right here. Choose report category and then copyright/trademark. Under that there is a counterfeit choice.
http://ocswf.ebay.com/rti/compose?items=282486018063&seller=tommyrocks69
He graded that 97 Morgan conservatively, probably could have put a 67 on it based on his photo's
I get your point.
Gary Fernandez counterfeited slabs and labels whose discovery temporarily crashed the Market in 1988. FBI involved and about 7 years behind bars is what I remember.
DonWillis has the FBI agent on his speed-dial.
From an old thread.
So I am the infamous and stupid Tommyrocks69 who sold the fake PCGS slabs on eBay. I purchased 20 or so coins from a guy through Facebook and I guess because the price was so good I was blinded by greed. I am always looking at the coins themselves for fakes. I never even heard of genuine coins being in fake slabs so I wasn't looking for that when I was looking over this lot. I definitely thought something didn't seem right, but I it wasn't enough to make me stop the sale or investigate further. As someone mentioned I have a 100% seller feedback score on eBay. That's because I don't peddle fakes or garbage. Not intentionally anyway. If you ask some of my buyers they will tell you I bend over backwards to make sure they are happy and satisfied with the coin(s). Selling people fake slabs definitely goes against everything that I stand for. The only good news is that it was only 4 slabs. It is not a ring or anything where people can expect to see hundreds of these things flood the market. Not from me personally anyway and I think this was a one time thing for the person I got them from. Obviously it's still bad that it happened at all, but in this case the source (me) is terribly embarrassed and ashamed and will be making sure he looks more closely at what he puts out there under his name. I am sure that for some my apology won't be enough or they will think I'm not being truthful and I understand that. I can see by some of these posts that many of you take this hobby extremely seriously and as a personal attack when you see things like this happen. All I can tell you is that I love collecting coins and I will do everything in my power to right the wrongs of this particular situation and make sure it never happens again in the future.
Good luck getting your money back. If you have any information you could share on the seller from facebook that would be helpful