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If the premiums on Saints goes much lower
topstuf
Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
they may be paying people to take them.
I get a daily wholesale email on graded gold from Heritage and...... 
Good grief!
There must be CONVOYS of boats full of US gold coming in from Europe.
probably shouldn't publish quote as it's not a retail price, but I'll tell you it is a bit under $1400 for PCGS 64 Saints.
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??? Retail is way lower than that...
the market is over-inundated wit generic 20's
My bad. Should have looked closer.
That was on 13-S saints. 40 of em.
The generic PC64s are under 1300
But save this thread. You'll have an example of the first mistake I ever made.
There are 411,038 1924 and 1927 Saints in PCGS MS62-65 grades (alone). That number, in itself, is probably close to the addressable collector population who can afford to own one. Now add in all the NGC coins, and all the other dates in both flavor slabs that are still considered common... net-net, unfortunately they are literally just becoming bullion
Same for $20 Libs too, no?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
so the premium on a MS64 Saint is like $30? I remember paying a premium of like $50 for 62's 10-12 years ago.
Couple of years ago... 64s were $1800-1900... retail... laughed when a dealer offered melt at the time
There must be CONVOYS of boats full of US gold coming in from Europe.
why would you think that???
$20 Saints are of one of the most largely graded US coins. to put things in perspective I chose a coin that I collect, a Modern issue. there have been more MS64 Saints graded by PCGS than all Mint State Jefferson Nickels combined, and it isn't really close. if you add in all MS63 and MS65 Saints the number graded by PCGS dwarfs the total of most every coin series, and that's on three grades(over 700k coins).
64 libs are a tad over 1500
62 libs a tad over 1300.
Gold coins likely make up a disproportionate share of authenticated coins because of counterfeiting, jewelry use and other things that make the pieces less likely to be numismatically acceptable. Like any open market commodity, too many coins chasing too few buyers results in lower prices. As a practical matter, the premiums of generic $20 would be fine at half their present level -- or less.
There's a huge amount of gold coming
from a specific deal in Europe.
The word 'hoard' doesn't come close.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Where can you buy for $1300?? Wholesale only??
I have always been mystified by the gold coming out of Europe. Without a political statement, except for Switzerland, I would have assumed the Nazi's would have stripped every gram of gold from every bank, safety deposit box, jewelry store, etc. Spain was devastated by Civil war, and was in a shambles.
England was broke paying us for War material, so I would doubt any significant amount was hiding there.
If all of this was in Switzerland, by the time they are done exporting it, the nation will look like Kansas.
Okay, well, expanding the discussion, what are peoples' favorite places to buy graded MS "generic" Saints? Sounds like a fun collection to think about for people, and with little numismatic down side.
Common saints remain overpriced. The gold in my cheaper common American Eagle is just as old and heavier.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
please, tell us more.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
64 Saints at $1325-1350 make sense in the current environment. But a 13-S at $1400 sounds AWFULLY cheap at $1400. Especially with CDN at 7K!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Hmm... I wonder how many of the "better" dates in the series will remain better dates and whether there are large numbers in European bank vaults too (like the generics). It reminds me a lot of the 1903-O Morgan Dollar, which at one point surpassed the rarity and value of the 1893-S... until new bags showed up.
Sweet!
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
This is good news for those of us who have never owned one.......we can get one for cheap and close to gold price to give to our kids!
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Many collectors never part with their first Saint (or their first 50 Pesos).
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Percentage wise are current premiums the lowest in history? It seems generic 62-63 Saints are basically trading at melt?!
I am gonna shoot myself. ANOTHER wrong post. It was 1914 S
lemme go recheck.
**"Today's deal is uncertified MS64 1914-S $20 Saint **
there.
maybe.
unless it was MCMVII high reliefs.
lemme check again.
ah... nope.
(my effin gawd.... not even CERTIFIED)
Where's the stamp store?
That WAS close to melt a few years ago, lol. I have 2 Saints, MS63 I believe. Picked one up for under $800, and the other was right at $1,000. I keep waiting for them to get back to that price before I buy a few more! Not sure it will happen though, lol
Well, shoot! If we're gonna talk HISTORY, on the day gold hit $252, I bought (I think) 74 raw Libs for $265 per.
Had em slabbed. Most were 58 but a few 62' and THIS is what they called 62.
Someone sign me up for this list. Heritage must love the OP.
And their gold value is $1218
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Yeah, just don't sound right. Are 63 Saints cheaper than ML yet?
Just checked the e-mail. You quoted a typo. If you read further, you would have seen that the 14-S's are certified. But no need to shoot yourself.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I miss the days of $300 (plus or minus) gold.... sure was fun buying it then....sure is nice looking at them now...
Cheers, RickO
There are so many deals to be had, yet most people miss them because they're too busy on Facebook or tweeting typos.
Hmmmph! Consider yourself unfriended!
Cut those numbers in half for resubmissions. I use the PCGS numbers as an estimate of ALL slabbed generics. You can just toss out NGC as they effectively represent the number of resubmissions. It's speculators and/or gold bullion investors that truly determine the price of MS62-64 Saints. I'd say less than 1-5% of all MS64's reside with a real collector such as in a gold US Type set. Despite the apparent big pops, the coins are easily promotable in grades of 64 or higher.
It's not just Saints. The premiums on EVERY piece of common MS63-66 generic gold ($1's to $20's) has collapsed. Premiums peaked in April/May 2006. Made a decent rebound in 2009. Premiums have been diving ever since....except for $20s making a brief resurgence in mid-2011 as gold reached $1800-$1900/oz. All downhill since.
When you consider ALL the above ground gold bullion out there ($4-$5 TRILL worth). The amount taken up by mint state US $20's double eagles is paltry. About 1.5 MILL PCGS slabbed twenties. Now consider, how many choice/gem 1 oz gold coins around the world still exist from the pre-1933 era? What % is that of the total $5 TRILL? 1/1,000? 1/5,000? 1/10,000? Even the US $50 1 oz AGE proofs are currently at somewhat ridiculous premiums above spot...at 8-10%. I don't recall them ever being lower. There's approx 1.7 MILL minted since 1986....the regular BU AGE's number 10X that. That's still not a lot of coins in the scheme of things when you have an entire world of demand out there. Recall, that in 2009 those proof AGE's were bringing 100% premiums to spot when gold first reached $1225/oz....$2400 per coin. If you pick anything after 1988, the mintages are quite low....for bullion only carrying an 8% premium.
What other desirable USMint made gold/silver proofs can you buy for 8% to melt? Consider that our favorite MS64 Morgan dollars sell for 3.5X to 4X their melt value...and very available. 1959-1982 circ copper Lincoln cents (1.7c) bring the same premium to metal melt as a MS66 $20 Saint (1.73x). A circ wheat penny brings a lot more.
I'm just concerned that rough seas may jostle the Saints crossing the ocean in the trillions and getting even MORE nicked up.
Definitely send gem gold Saints to PCGS! I don't know if they will award the PL grade but I do know MS64's and MS75's could go for thousands to serious collectors of the finest coins- depending on the rarity of the date and mint mark- (in grade and appearance). Registry gold sets are popular and the manhunt for these heafty scarce coins never cease. Please keep us informed as to your positive grading results should you choose to locate raw and submit.
In the past when lower grade St. Gaudens $20 gold coins were selling for close to melt or even a little less than melt, it was an indicator that gold bullion prices were too high and about to drop. Could that be the case now?
Anyone know who the heck abcde12345 is talking to??? Besides himself that is...
"Enjoy Your Coins" (I didn't make that up.)
So are their prices of the pass or play type?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
This entire discussion basically shows how pointless it is to send gem saints to TPGs and you still insist on spouting your nonsense? Please just stop, no one appreciates it when you comment.
Not pointless to the tens of thousands of collectors who think differently than you and do submit their Saints. Or, in YOU world, no one is allowed a different point of view?
Probably. I haven't sent any back yet and my gal and I ordered 50 of em a while back.
Definitely not gems but as likely "non confiscatable." bullion, they make a good balance to the stack.
If gold spot stayed at the same price as it was when you ordered, could you sell them readily for a profit? Were they priced right?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
MS63 Saints will soon go into the melting pot!..
When gold bullion rises sharply and people dump common gold coins, it's probably more about taking profits than about having crystal balls.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I can remember standing in the JJ Teaparty store when it was open in Boston years ago. They were selling circulated St. Gaudens $20 gold pieces over the counter for less than melt, and everyone I knew within my circle of collector friends figured that the gold bullion price was about to drop.
Only if the demand for 0.999 fine gold coins (or 100/400 oz bank bullion bars) becomes so great that the 0.90 fine classic gold coins have to make up the difference. Fwiw, the US Mint is still making 0.91% fine AGE's. The Buffs are the "pure" ones. I'd much rather have an XF/AU $20 Saint than a 1 oz. bullion bar.
No I could not.
Yes they were priced "right"....for THAT time.
I did not expect convoys of gold to be coming in from Europe.
I was hoping Trump would keep them out.
I can remember buying them for $42
VERY shortly thereafter though, they were WAY up to 60 bucks.
Damn, I am an old cuss.
LOL!..It has gotten to the point that AU - MS63 is worth the same money. Unless they can figure out what to do with truck loads of $20 coming in from Europe the spreads will not change.