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Does anyone else think it's strange......
PerryHall
Posts: 45,446 ✭✭✭✭✭
........that Provident Metals who is a major bullion dealer accepts bitcoins for payment for precious metals? It seem ironic that a bullion dealer would sell real money {Gold, silver, etc) for imaginary money (bitcoins).
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
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I see bitcoins as the accepted payment method on a lot of online merchants, and increasing everyday. I just can't wrap my head around it, believe me I tried.
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Plus the fact that bitcoin is increasing in value (for now). So what might be $10 in bitcoin now might be $15 down the road. The merchant just made an extra $5 for doing nothing.
Edit: Another thing is that times are changing. Maybe bitcoin or some other virtual currency will be the norm and they are getting a jump on things.
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Provident charges 1% more for bitcoin than cash.
If they sell $10K of gold for bitcoin today, and they can buy $10K of gold for bitcoin today, they just made $100 more than they would have otherwise. I'm not sure if they buy much using bitcoin (they show cash prices for buying from customers, not bitcoin prices).
Aside from that, if they are selling more gold for bitcoin than buying (which I expect is the case), then if they can sell the bitcoin for more than 99% of its value, they profit from accepting bitcoin.
They almost certainly aren't just accumulating bitcoin forever; most businesses (especially with such a small spread) cannot afford to do that.
Is the bitcoin very volatile? It would be interesting to see a graph showing the dollar value of one bitcoin versus time.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/simply-wow-10000-bitcoin-investment-in-2010-now-worth-200-million-gold-9900
Compared to gold I would say it was/is a good investment. WOW
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JM Bullion accepts bit coin also, with no surcharge I believe.
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What advantage does bitcoins have over dollars? Can bitcoins be used to privately transfer wealth without the tax man becoming aware? I know bitcoins are useful if your computer gets locked up by a hacker using ransomware. and you need to pay the ransom to get your computer back.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
If bitcoin turns down they will stop taking it
Is it possible that some day a skilled hacker could bring down this house of cards called bitcoin?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
It went up to about $1200, then it went down to about $300, now it's up over $2000.
https://99bitcoins.com/price-chart-history/
Looks to me like a sucker trap, but what do I know.
Hackers doing terrible things? Who would ever dream of such a thing???
Yes. The catch is that bitcoin uses a proven algorithm (creating hashes of data) in a non-standard way (continually creating hashes until you come up with a hash that meets a certain criteria). There could be a way to guess what data might create a hash that meets the criteria. Guess that, and you can make bitcoins quicker, beating the system.
Right now, if bitcoins are $2,000 each, that means (in theory) it should cost about $2,000 to create a bitcoin (e.g. renting 10 $200 servers, it would take about a month to generate a bitcoin). But if you can come up with an algorithm to make it 10x more likely you will guess correctly, that $2,000 would generate 10 bitcoins -- making you a tidy profit.
This entire thread makes me laugh.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Bitcoin is shady, whether it is malware, buying dead (or live) bodies, selling gallon jars of urine, or what have you. Let's say you are Bullion Dealer X and have decided that you make a profit of $1,000/day. You accept bitcoin for payment (at cash prices), and happily have exactly $1,000 worth of bitcoin orders per day. You then each day buy from Bullion Dealer Y that accepts bitcoin (at 1% more than cash). Now you have all this bullion delivered to you that the government doesn't know about (assuming Bullion Dealer Y doesn't report it). Not foolproof (e.g. if you are audited and they are thorough, you would need to take more steps to hide your tracks), but many bullion dealers aren't concerned about the IRS (e.g. NWT Mint went a few years without filing returns and the IRS didn't notice, and Bullion Direct when 10 years without filing returns and the IRS didn't notice that either).
I'm not buying Bitcoins today
Or tomorrow.
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No more imaginary that dollars, just not as popular.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Skilled hacker will most likely bring down a traditional banking system.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
And good that religion can never be hacked.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
There are many people that are into bitcoins that want silver and maybe gold "in case of"......I know a few of these people.
So, Provident is giving those people an option. Bitcoins can help people stay off the grid.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Lots of shows depict people living "off the grid"....using outhouses, never clean clothes, scouraging for food, fighting frozen water pipes, unwanted critters in the corn crib, uninvited "guests" with guns, ect. Ok I get the whole idea... I just wish someone could explain how their quality of life is better.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
@PerryHall -It is very volatile, but it is on a major upswing right now. About 30 months ago, MT. Gox the largest bitcoin exchange at the time (brokered 70% of all bitcoin transactions) was "hacked" by insiders and almost 1,000,000 of the bitcoins it held for users (think paypal again) were stolen without any trace and everyone though the sky was falling. Bitcoin fell from $1200ish to $300 in weeks. People are always warned to not use electronic wallets or keep their bitcoins stored at an exchange (think a private bullion vault) over a "cold wallet" which is a physical copy of the block chain for the exact reason Mt. Gox was able to happen. Bitcoin and other crypto (Ethereum) is definitely on the IRS's and Fed's radar right now because yes it is untraceable, unless you use an exchange (think an entity like paypal) to cash it into $$$.
I'm not sure how internet savvy you are, but bitcoin started being used in 2010...right around the time the "silkroad" was bustling. This was on part of the infamous "deep web" which use to be the black market of the internet where people would literally buy drugs, guns, and other illegal items and services over the internet.
Millions of dollars of trade was going on all the time and it was all virtually untraceable because bitcoin was being used as the medium of trade. It was eventually infiltrated by the FBI and shut down. The silk road has since morphed and bitcoin has been recognized as a way to store wealth and be able to move it across borders and hide it in the size of a USB memory stick or on a piece of paper. Think about who may like to own a commodity/currency like that. I suspect this crazy rally has come from places like China, Venezuela, Russia, North Korea and other entities and people that can benefit from the ease of moving and hiding wealth in bitcoin...
Dave,
When I say "off the grid", in the case of the bitcoins, I really mean "under the radar". The ones I know are a bit paranoid about the government and the government knowing what they are buying/when/how. They want to pay "cash" for what they can, and not show up if they can help it.
When silver was on it's run up to $40+ a few years ago, one of them was buying rolls of SAEs whenever he could, just to have the silver on hand as he truly believed that the dollar wouldn't be worth anything and that silver was the barter medium that was needed. He was also into bitcoins.
Maybe I should have gotten payment from him in bitcoins
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
There is a company called bitpay which merchants can use to accept Bitcoin on their behalf which converts to USD instantly. Provident never actually has to hold Bitcoin and thus speculate.
Whereas the value of a digital token may escape some, there is a general consensus that it indeed holds value, just like IMO the arbitrary value we place on certain metals at any given time.
It's all about what the people want...
Its all the same too me. All risky. Bits, Cash, Gold, Silver, Hess trucks, friends that owe you money, family that owes you money, or a Wells Fargo bank acct. Even (or maybe the worst to come) the electronic money supposedly in your retirement plan. But I don't know if the bit is ok for the everyday person.
How is bitcoin any different than the more traditional financial system everyone here now engages in? Do you honestly believe there are anywhere near enough physical dollars to settle every single bank, retirement, or investment account tomorrow? With fractional reserve banking, there is only about 3-5% of actual physical cash to cover all deposits. We are....and have been already using digital currency for decades. You just didn't really think about it.
No doubt there are those individuals that have indeed made a lot of money in bitcoins. Like anything else, getting in early, or on a major dip, can (assuming success) result in riches. At my age, I will continue in the traditional manner - cash, gold, silver and investments. Cheers, RickO
Its the one we missed...
will pcgs authenticate and grade bitcoins?
bob
For the price its going it will be worth their while.
I think it's strange that some folks think it's strange.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I wonder if we're looking at it wrong. Maybe silver and gold were "real" money, or historical money, and now bitcoin is "real" money or future money?
I'm not sure if you were being fecitious or not, but there are physical bitcoins. They are slabbed as tokens by ANACS.
No, it was a legit question. Didn't know they were being graded by anyone. Do they sell at the market price of the
imaginary bitcoin, or about $2,200?
bob:)
It depends just like coins, but they're not as abundant as they use to be. I've owned one physical coin before, but sadly I no longer own it. If you look on reverse of the one I posted, there is a tamper proof sticker that covers up the bitcoin info etched onto it or on another sticker. So, there is an actual bitcoin"stored" on it. Some bitcoins have been used so that detracts greatly from the value. Some types of bitcoin tokens are more collectible than others...then there's the grading factor, haha.
On another note, bitcoin dropped 30% yesterday!
So bit coins can be worn out? I thought they were just a series of 0's and 1's. What happens, a few digits disappear?
"I have a bit coin, but it aint worth much, only has 87,356 digits". Lol. Even a smooth Washington quarter ftom 1965 buys as much junk as one from 2017.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Wow.
That made, like, total sense to me and I understood the whole thing.
Or ... not.
But hey, all that stuff about "hashes" was good. I like hash browns. And corned beef hash.
If there were an EMP {electro magnetic pulse} would your bitcoins disappear?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
With onions in the hash browns!
I'm trying to scrape up some bus money. Please ...pay pal gift only.
Oh, most definitely. Hash browns without onions are like plain cheese pizza: theoretically edible, but why bother?
This is patently false...if you believe there hasn't been inflation in the last 51 years...just wow
I still dont understand bitcoins....too confusing for me.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
I need to research and figure this theory out
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Not only do I not understand bitcoins, I don't understand why anyone would accept them as payment for a debt. They appear to have very limited use. Can you use them to buy groceries or gasoline? Can you use them to pay your taxes? Can you use them to buy clothes at your local department store? Do any restaurants accept bitcoins to pay for a meal?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
If you keep your BTC on a USB, a word document or something electronic, then yes you will lose it if an EMP or nuke went off. If you have physical bitcoins or a cold wallet, then you should be OK, but who the hell knows.
Being new to Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies can be confusing and is very convoluted. Here is the "wiki" created for the reddit community dedicated to talking about bitcoin. It has great information in easy to understand format on BTC:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/61s75o/rbitcoin_faq_newcomers_please_read/
I understand BTC and own/owned a decent amount of it, but I am not 100% convinced of its perceived value. I don't like the political environment around it at all, that it relies 99% on the internet and electronic means and that there are still lots of questions surrounding its history and future. I think it is good to understand crypto as I think it has the CHANCE to be another way to store value/diversify or will be the precursor to the new big "thing".
Like I mentioned before, people like BTC because it is nearly untraceable, it is unregulated (for the time being and I think this will change) and can be moved/transferred easily across borders without detection. Sounds great for the "underground" community, no? Why do you think it is the preferred method of payment for ransomware attacks?
Lol....so your local toll booth won't accept a 1965 quarter just as it will a 2017? Can't stop laughing.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Holy cow...too thick to even begin
Not to be a smartass, but couldn't you say the same for gold or silver?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Maybe this will help you from a few posts above. ...Some bitcoins have been used so that detracts greatly from the value.....
Knowledge is the enemy of fear