@Insider2 notice that the darker areas are the areas that have friction/dirt from circulation.
Please do not introduce any confusion into this thread. It should be very obvious to any numismatist reading this thread and viewing the coins that Mr. Singleton's coins are TOTALLY NATURAL and have nothing to do with the type of alteration I posted about!
Compare his coins with the 1850 $20 above. Do you see a difference. I hope so.
PS Really...LOL. We shipped all that circulated gold to Europe covered with black grime, they stored it, and then shipped it back to the U.S. and none of the grime was inadvertently scraped off in transit or storage and the U.S. dealers loved those ugly coins and collectors who didn't know anything about originality back then (they wanted BU) couldn't wait to line up to buy filthy gold coins...LOL. NOT ON THIS PLANET. But you were a professional dealer back then, right? So what do I know - nothing.
I like my coins in better dates and nicely circulated, so when I decided to get some Libs I went in with the same plan.
I see a lot of very nice VF and XF coins here and it pleases me to know there's a place for less than MS gold.
1845P PC VF35
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
Nice 46-O $5. I want to do a New Orleans set in EF as a project one day. I have a nice 47-O and 42-O which are the keys but many of the dates are tough, especially the 55-O and 56-O.
@Boosibri said:
Nice 46-O $5. I want to do a New Orleans set in EF as a project one day. I have a nice 47-O and 42-O which are the keys but many of the dates are tough, especially the 55-O and 56-O.
That is going to be a very hard project and will take some luck that mostly unmessed with examples will be available. Nevertheless that will be a lofty goal and an amazing achievement.
@Boosibri said:
Nice 46-O $5. I want to do a New Orleans set in EF as a project one day. I have a nice 47-O and 42-O which are the keys but many of the dates are tough, especially the 55-O and 56-O.
That is going to be a very hard project and will take some luck that mostly unmessed with examples will be available. Nevertheless that will be a lofty goal and an amazing achievement.
Best, SH
Here is what I have so far:
1842-O P40 CAC ex. Littlejohn in an old holder just after the OGH
The nicest circulated 47-O $5 I have seen in 10 years of collecting bought half drunk from Doug Winter the morning after after my best friends wedding.
A very cool and rare 1851-O/O $5 which has a repunched date and mintmark. I have found 4 examples in all auctions with extensive searching. Two of which were in Bass, this one, and a cleaned VF.
Brian --I really like that 1847-O...35 to 40?? As you mentioned the 1855 to 1857 O mint group are not easy either...I've only been able to get one of the three so far...
SH -- two great coins...the 1846-O is underrated...especially in a high grade like you have
@jonruns said:
Brian --I really like that 1847-O...35 to 40?? As you mentioned the 1855 to 1857 O mint group are not easy either...I've only been able to get one of the three so far...
35 CAC bought in 2008 and one of my first gold coins.
Why do you think I was talking about you? Big assumption.
I generally agree with your assessment. I don't buy coins with dirt on high points. It is a no brainer to me, unless I handle the coin raw out of a leather bag or some other storage method that I believe to be put away for a long time.
I have bought coins with dirt on the high points, but the dirt adheres in a different way that the coins that have sludge intentionally placed.
@coinlieutenant asks: "Insider2, Why do you think I was talking about you? Big assumption. "
Ah, because I am an attention hound as I was deprived as a child. Actually, because I was the only person on this thread saying anything bad about SOME dirty coins.
"I generally agree with your assessment. I don't buy coins with dirt on high points. It is a no brainer to me, unless I handle the coin raw out of a leather bag or some other storage method that I believe to be put away for a long time.
I have bought coins with dirt on the high points, but the dirt adheres in a different way that the coins that have sludge intentionally placed."
I think you could educate a lot of us here if you wish to elaborate about the way the different dirt adheres and the patterns you have seen!
PS It will probably never happen but I wish numismatists would refer to normally well-circulated, basically clean, old surface, dark gold as something besides "dirty gold." A majority of the gold in this thread is NOT dirty.
Regarding the thread, this was a pic post, but I would welcome a thread about the subject of "dirt" and the relationships between it and "skin", "meat" and "fabric". Without getting into too much detail, dirt can tell a numismatist a lot. And any substance, whether it be dirt, smears, oil, ink etc on the known wear points should be viewed with skepticism. In general, real dirt on high points should flake off easily. A jewelers ultrasonic will do the trick on much dirt that is real, if you want it off.
Other times, dirt patterns can be indicative of a clever cleaning. Dirt that should be there, but isn't, but still has dirt in other similar areas.
Bottom line, dirt is important, but many on here know the patterns, doctoring capabilities and other signs more than I do.
A very cool and rare 1851-O/O $5 which has a repunched date and mintmark. I have found 4 examples in all auctions with extensive searching. Two of which were in Bass, this one, and a cleaned VF.
When I did my count, I found 7 or 8 in the Heritage records, including mine below. They are identified not only by the repunching but also the mintmark placement which is very distinct from the other 2 varieties. Mine has some slight damage right over the punch below and to the right (alas), but it is there. Sadly, since so few care about die varieties in liberty gold, there is no value increase with this nice variety.
@Boosibri said: @spacehayduke I have lobbied Doug Winter to put this variety in as a distinct type in his next New Orleans book. Similar to the 1848-D/D.
Excellent, that would indeed raise its value............ There is probably 15 or so extant, maybe less.
Comments
Please do not introduce any confusion into this thread. It should be very obvious to any numismatist reading this thread and viewing the coins that Mr. Singleton's coins are TOTALLY NATURAL and have nothing to do with the type of alteration I posted about!
Compare his coins with the 1850 $20 above. Do you see a difference. I hope so.
PS Really...LOL. We shipped all that circulated gold to Europe covered with black grime, they stored it, and then shipped it back to the U.S. and none of the grime was inadvertently scraped off in transit or storage and the U.S. dealers loved those ugly coins and collectors who didn't know anything about originality back then (they wanted BU) couldn't wait to line up to buy filthy gold coins...LOL. NOT ON THIS PLANET.
But you were a professional dealer back then, right? So what do I know - nothing.
Back to posting coins...this 1858-S $5 is one of the finest known if not the finest and is one of the most under valued issues in the series.
Latin American Collection
1847-C $2.50. Common but dirty.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Same coin in the holder...
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Here is a younger oldun............
Great thread. Who doesn't love gold?!
My semi-dirty 1840-O $5
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Just got his brother back from grading today...only NGC not PCGS recognizes this variety...
This one matches........
they are both awesome
I like my coins in better dates and nicely circulated, so when I decided to get some Libs I went in with the same plan.
I see a lot of very nice VF and XF coins here and it pleases me to know there's a place for less than MS gold.
1845P PC VF35
Latin American Collection
Love those two Charlotte coins...
Nice 46-O $5. I want to do a New Orleans set in EF as a project one day. I have a nice 47-O and 42-O which are the keys but many of the dates are tough, especially the 55-O and 56-O.
Latin American Collection
Some gorgeous old gold here.... have to save this thread for those days when I need a mental diversion from reality....
Cheers, RickO
My 1846-D $5
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
That is going to be a very hard project and will take some luck that mostly unmessed with examples will be available. Nevertheless that will be a lofty goal and an amazing achievement.
Best, SH
Here are my 42-O and 46-O:
Here is what I have so far:
1842-O P40 CAC ex. Littlejohn in an old holder just after the OGH
The nicest circulated 47-O $5 I have seen in 10 years of collecting bought half drunk from Doug Winter the morning after after my best friends wedding.
.jpg)
A very cool and rare 1851-O/O $5 which has a repunched date and mintmark. I have found 4 examples in all auctions with extensive searching. Two of which were in Bass, this one, and a cleaned VF.
Latin American Collection
...Interesting Thread. My two cents...(five hundred cents
)
Brian --I really like that 1847-O...35 to 40?? As you mentioned the 1855 to 1857 O mint group are not easy either...I've only been able to get one of the three so far...
SH -- two great coins...the 1846-O is underrated...especially in a high grade like you have
35 CAC bought in 2008 and one of my first gold coins.
Latin American Collection
Lots of really nice coins. Lots of bloviation too.
I still would love to own that 1800 half eagle. Dude hasn't posted my fav either, that awesome 1809/8....
siliconvalleycoins.com
@coinlieutenant said: "Lots of bloviation too."
There is an old saying about what constitutes "Bliss." Do you remember how it goes?
That's why I'd rather read a bloviating (?) post that can be easily confirmed than listen to the crickets associated with the blissfully uninformed.
@Insider2
I have bought coins with dirt on the high points, but the dirt adheres in a different way that the coins that have sludge intentionally placed.
siliconvalleycoins.com
A few more
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
siliconvalleycoins.com
@coinlieutenant asks: "Insider2, Why do you think I was talking about you? Big assumption. "
Ah, because I am an attention hound as I was deprived as a child.
Actually, because I was the only person on this thread saying anything bad about SOME dirty coins.
"I generally agree with your assessment. I don't buy coins with dirt on high points. It is a no brainer to me, unless I handle the coin raw out of a leather bag or some other storage method that I believe to be put away for a long time.
I have bought coins with dirt on the high points, but the dirt adheres in a different way that the coins that have sludge intentionally placed."
I think you could educate a lot of us here if you wish to elaborate about the way the different dirt adheres and the patterns you have seen!
PS It will probably never happen but I wish numismatists would refer to normally well-circulated, basically clean, old surface, dark gold as something besides "dirty gold." A majority of the gold in this thread is NOT dirty.
@insider2 You said it, not me.
Regarding the thread, this was a pic post, but I would welcome a thread about the subject of "dirt" and the relationships between it and "skin", "meat" and "fabric". Without getting into too much detail, dirt can tell a numismatist a lot. And any substance, whether it be dirt, smears, oil, ink etc on the known wear points should be viewed with skepticism. In general, real dirt on high points should flake off easily. A jewelers ultrasonic will do the trick on much dirt that is real, if you want it off.
Other times, dirt patterns can be indicative of a clever cleaning. Dirt that should be there, but isn't, but still has dirt in other similar areas.
Bottom line, dirt is important, but many on here know the patterns, doctoring capabilities and other signs more than I do.
siliconvalleycoins.com
siliconvalleycoins.com
When I did my count, I found 7 or 8 in the Heritage records, including mine below. They are identified not only by the repunching but also the mintmark placement which is very distinct from the other 2 varieties. Mine has some slight damage right over the punch below and to the right (alas), but it is there. Sadly, since so few care about die varieties in liberty gold, there is no value increase with this nice variety.
Best, SH
siliconvalleycoins.com
Have a nice dirty weekend
Here's my favorite and probably most dirty, although it's a common date.
PC45 1906S
@spacehayduke I have lobbied Doug Winter to put this variety in as a distinct type in his next New Orleans book. Similar to the 1848-D/D.
Latin American Collection
Latin American Collection
Oh...those crazy Confederates minting dirty gold
Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia
Findley Ridge Collection
About Findley Ridge
Excellent, that would indeed raise its value............ There is probably 15 or so extant, maybe less.
Best, SH
What a great start to the day... lots of gorgeous old gold.... Thanks to all ... Cheers, RickO
I think I have owned about half of the coins on this thread at one point or another. Here's one I still own: