If anyone has tested Elemetal/NTR/OPM bars for purity (assay, XRF, acid testing, etc.), I would be very interested in hearing the results. Details can be sent anonymously at http://about.ag/Tips.htm .
Does anyone know the history of the company. I know they have done a lot of acquisitions, but how did they get started, how long ago, and how did they get funded. They acquired some great brands, so they must be well funded.
@tyler267 said:
Does anyone know the history of the company. I know they have done a lot of acquisitions, but how did they get started, how long ago, and how did they get funded. They acquired some great brands, so they must be well funded.
NTR Metals started somewhere around 2004, founded by two brothers (at least one of whom is still involved today), and there is a third person that appears to have a significant interest in the company.
Somewhere around 2011, NTR started acquiring a majority interest in DGSE.
Then in April, 2012 NTR and OPM (Ohio Precious Metals) merged, and started using the Elemetal name around January 2013. So Elemetal is pretty much NTR, with a new name, corporate structure, and brand name.
Over on the dealer-to-dealer network, one dealer who had an account with them reported that he had received a check for 20% of his holdings, with a promise that he would receive an additional 20% every other month until paid in full.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Their checks are good when I refine silver/gold, and my checks are good when purchasing silver and gold from them. So far , no trouble completing transactions. Thankfully.
@CaptHenway said:
Over on the dealer-to-dealer network, one dealer who had an account with them reported that he had received a check for 20% of his holdings, with a promise that he would receive an additional 20% every other month until paid in full.
That is correct. Elemetal Refining -- the division of Elemetal that handles refining -- was indeed unable to pay refining customers starting around April 1 (the same time they were de-listed from LBMA/COMEX), and said they will pay back exactly as you described.
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Their checks are good when I refine silver/gold, and my checks are good when purchasing silver and gold from them. So far , no trouble completing transactions. Thankfully.
Their checks were good, until they shut down and came up with the payment schedule. They are no longer refining gold or silver.
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Their checks are good when I refine silver/gold, and my checks are good when purchasing silver and gold from them. So far , no trouble completing transactions. Thankfully.
Their checks were good, until they shut down and came up with the payment schedule. They are no longer refining gold or silver.
I can melt the stuff myself. That's not a problem. As long as it's real silver they're sending me, they're just another vendor in a long line of sellers/buyers/traders
... and if anyone is a customer of Elemetal Vault and received any interesting E-mails over the past few days, I would really like to hear more about it.
@AboutAg said:
... and if anyone is a customer of Elemetal Vault and received any interesting E-mails over the past few days, I would really like to hear more about it.
Question: Are you an investigative reporter trying to dig up some dirt or do you have a personal interest in Elemetal Vault? It's quite apparent that no one on this forum, including my self, gives a hoot nor are we associated with Elemetal.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Question: Are you an investigative reporter trying to dig up some dirt or do you have a personal interest in Elemetal Vault? It's quite apparent that no one on this forum, including my self, gives a hoot nor are we associated with Elemetal.
I'm the one that started warning people about Tulving, Bullion Direct, and NWT Mint several months before they went bankrupt (and am now helping the 10,000+ victims of those frauds). I don't get paid to do this (yes, there is a tiny amount of ad revenue, but the expenses are much higher).
Elemetal is quite different than those companies: Elemetal is a conglomerate of many companies, and accused of a massive not-necessarily-a-crime that doesn't hurt its customers (but is extremely damaging). Provident Metals -- a popular bullion retailer -- is one of the companies in the conglomerate.
One of Provident Metals' "sister companies" is insolvent (it owes millions of dollars that it hopes to pay back to customers within 6 months).
It's kind of like selling burglar alarms: very few people think about getting one until they are robbed, but almost everyone does afterwards. It's human nature not to give a hoot. And the truth doesn't sell, hype does, and I try very hard to avoid hype. But people would rather read a story about how George Bush led a clandestine mission to take all the gold out of Fort Knox and replace it with tungsten bars than read that the dealer they just sent $10,000 to might be having financial troubles.
But to give you a little more information about that post: I allow people to send me anonymous tips. I've received hundreds of them over the past few years (including the one that lead me to finding out about impure Elemetal/OPM/NTR bars). I just received one that said that many Elemetal Vault customers received an E-mail from Elemetal regarding their metal. Assuming it is true (as the vast majority of the tips I receive are), it is something Provident Metals customers would want to know about. Hence my query.
I allow people to send me anonymous tips. I've received hundreds of them over the past few years (including the one that lead me to finding out about impure Elemetal/OPM/NTR bars).>
Can we get some details on this? Did someone actually assay these bars to check their purity? How "impure" are these bars? I own a few of these brands of silver bars and I hate to think they aren't 999 fine silver.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I allow people to send me anonymous tips. I've received hundreds of them over the past few years (including the one that lead me to finding out about impure Elemetal/OPM/NTR bars).>
Can we get some details on this? Did someone actually assay these bars to check their purity? How "impure" are these bars? I own a few of these brands of silver bars and I hate to think they aren't 999 fine silver.
The reports I have received so far show the silver bars testing fine, with some/many/most of the gold bars testing OK. From what I have heard, impure bars could be anywhere from .950 to .999 (I suspect in the .995-.998 range).
The big reason for having so little information is that it is either very costly or destructive to test purity (everyone just trusts the refiner). Most of the best methods of detecting fake bullion (e.g. silver plated copper, gold plated tungsten) can say "Yes, that is almost certainly real gold" -- but will say that whether it is .999 fine or .980 fine. So an assay (destructive) or XRF (expensive) are really the only ways to determine purity.
I have heard that Dillon Gage is no longer accepting these bars for refining. I have had several anonymous reports of assaying or XRF showing impure bars (some reportedly plated with .999 fine gold per XRF, but when melted were .950-.980). And one person I know tested 10 1oz OPM bars using a Sigma Metalytics tester with 8 testing fine, one with unclear results, and one that was way out of range for .999 fine gold (unlike assay/XRF, that isn't undeniable proof, but improves the plausibility of the anonymous information).
Dollar down because the U.S. Government might fall?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
DGSE Companies, Inc. Announces Letter of Intent to Acquire Elemetal Recycling, LLC Assets
April 19, 2017 06:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
DALLAS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--DGSE Companies, Inc. (NYSE MKT:DGSE) (“DGSE” or the “Company”), a leading wholesaler and retailer of jewelry, diamonds, fine watches, and precious metal bullion and rare coin products, today announced that it has entered into a non-binding Letter of Intent with Elemetal, LLC (“Elemetal”) to acquire the tangible personal-property assets of Elemetal and Elemetal Recycling, LLC (“Recycling”) at 2101 W. Belt Line Road, Carrollton, Texas, the equipment at 10707 Composite Drive, Dallas, and certain accounts receivable of Recycling. The total estimated cash proceeds to Elemetal and Recycling from the sale and from the payment by DGSE of approximately $3.8 million of obligations owed by DGSE to Elemetal is $19.8 million. In addition, DGSE would assume certain accounts payable of Recycling.
“DGSE seeks to acquire diversified business opportunities with potential long-term rewards, and this Recycling acquisition holds great promise in working toward that strategic goal”
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No definitive agreement has been reached, and there can be no assurance that a definitive agreement will be reached. DGSE Board of Directors approval would be required for such definitive agreement.
“DGSE seeks to acquire diversified business opportunities with potential long-term rewards, and this Recycling acquisition holds great promise in working toward that strategic goal,” stated John Loftus, DGSE’s President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer.
“Recycling is a de-manufacturer and refurbishment processor of electronics in the aftermarket supply chain. It operates principally from a 175,000 square-foot facility in Carrollton, Texas that is designed to process precious-metal-bearing products from a host of industries. Recycling conforms to ISO 9001:2008, ISO 14001:2004 and R2 practices, which we believe makes it a top choice for disposing of IT and electronics assets,” said Loftus.
Elemetal currently holds an approximately 49% interest in DGSE.
DGSE Companies, Inc. wholesales and retails jewelry, diamonds, fine watches, and precious metal bullion and rare coin products through its Charleston Gold & Diamond Exchange and Dallas Gold & Silver Exchange operations. DGSE also owns Fairchild International, Inc., one of the largest vintage watch wholesalers in the country. In addition to its retail facilities in South Carolina and Texas, the Company operates websites which can be accessed at www.dgse.com, and www.cgdeinc.com. Real-time price quotations and real-time order execution in precious metals are provided on another DGSE website at www.USBullionExchange.com. Wholesale customers can access the full vintage watch inventory through the restricted site at www.FairchildWatches.com. The Company is headquartered in Dallas, Texas and its common stock trades on the NYSE MKT exchange under the symbol “DGSE.”
This press release includes statements that may constitute “forward-looking” statements, including statements regarding the potential acquisition of Recycling and entering into a definitive agreement regarding the potential acquisition. These statements are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements inherently involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the forward-looking statements. Factors that would cause or contribute to such differences include, but are not limited to, negotiations regarding a definitive agreement, market conditions, and other risks detailed in the Company's periodic report filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. By making these forward-looking statements, the Company undertakes no obligation to update these statements for revisions or changes after the date of this release except as required by law.
Is the date on that correct? One month ago, or yesterday?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@OPA said:
So, where does it leave Provident Metals? Our "in house" private eye, has been absent for a while.
This deal actually pre-dates the NTR Metals gold smuggling fiasco (the letter of intent occurred after getting regulatory approval and such), so it is likely not too important. It just affects Elemetal Recycling, which handles scrap and such.
Provident so far seems OK, but given the circumstances, it's a "be cautious" situation. I wouldn't be afraid of ordering from them, but before I did, would check to make sure that there weren't reports of delivery delays. And lower the amount of money I might otherwise feel comfortable having in limbo at one time.
A few reasons for concern (NOT big red flags, but important nonetheless): Provident never responded to concerns about Elemetal Vault (and now has ceased accepting Elemetal Vault balances as payment), Elemetal Refining is effectively bankrupt (suggesting the rest of Elemetal did not have funds available to "bail out" Elemetal Refining), and the curious issue of reports of impure NTR/Elemetal/OPM bars (which it seems Provident doesn't sell anymore).
@MsMorrisine said:
sometimes it makes more financial sense to not bail out a division and let it go into bankruptcy
especially when the assets, and not the liabilities, can be shifted to another division.
Ah, in a bankruptcy, that's referred to as a "fraudulent transfer" -- and typically just gets undone.
Elemetal's case is a bit different, as Elemetal Refining decided not to declare bankruptcy (and none of its customers have forced it into bankruptcy), so the bankruptcy rules do not apply. However, Elemetal has lead customers to believe that they will get 100% payment by December, and if they fail to do so, there is a good chance they would go the bankruptcy route, in which case any transfers to other divisions made within the previous year could get undone (it is normally 90 days, but 1 year for insiders).
How does all this drama affect the value of currently held Elemetal silver bars? I have a Kilo bar and a few 10 oz bars that I bought awhile back for a small premium over melt.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
@PerryHall said:
How does all this drama affect the value of currently held Elemetal silver bars? I have a Kilo bar and a few 10 oz bars that I bought awhile back for a small premium over melt.
That's likely going to depend mostly on what the final word is on the impure Elemetal bars. At this point it looks like silver isn't affected, that it is limited to gold bars. I expect that dealers would probably end up paying around the gold content of the worst bars (e.g. if it turns out bars range from .950 to .999, they would pay assuming they are .950).
Of course, there could be a premium if collectors are interested in these.
@PerryHall said:
How does all this drama affect the value of currently held Elemetal silver bars? I have a Kilo bar and a few 10 oz bars that I bought awhile back for a small premium over melt.
@ttown said:
Not bad. Sounds like some are implying an ISO9001 facility has been comprmised... very doubtful.
The same page that claims ISO9001:2008 certification also has a certificate from SCS Global Services stating that they performed an independent assessment and that Elemetal's gold is "Responsible Source Gold."
If $3.5B of illegal gold can make its way into their facilities without them knowing, do you really think the ISO9001 certification would prevent them from making impure gold bars?
Remember, when I asked Dillon Gage's refining department if the reports were true that they had stopped accepting Elemetal/NTR/OPM bars for refining, they chose to simply not respond.
@ttown said:> Remember, when I asked Dillon Gage's refining department if the reports were true that they had stopped accepting Elemetal/NTR/OPM bars for refining, they chose to simply not respond.
I own several Elemetal/NTR/OPM silver bars. Does this mean that I should be concerned that they aren't 999 fine silver?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I own several Elemetal/NTR/OPM silver bars. Does this mean that I should be concerned that they aren't 999 fine silver?
I haven't yet heard of any reports of the silver bars being impure, just the gold bars.
If it was a gold bar, I would definitely do some simple tests (e.g. at the very least, weigh it and check the dimensions, even though it appears that XRF/assay is the only way to be sure if the gold is very-pure-but-not-.999).
For silver bars, though, I wouldn't see a need to do anything more than whatever I might otherwise do with silver (e.g. if I had 10 1oz silver bars from one source, I might measure/weigh and/or test one, and assume the rest are OK if the dimensions and look are the same).
I haven't yet heard of any reports of the silver bars being impure, just the gold bars.
I spoke too soon. Kitco is now paying an unknown amount less than generic for NTR/OPM/Elemetal and even Provident labelled bars/coins. This includes silver. So Dillon Gage and Kitco know things we don't about these bars.
I haven't yet heard of any reports of the silver bars being impure, just the gold bars.
I spoke too soon. Kitco is now paying an unknown amount less than generic for NTR/OPM/Elemetal and even Provident labelled bars/coins. This includes silver. So Dillon Gage and Kitco know things we don't about these bars.
Paying below spot is not uncommon for generic silver by the big boys. The 64 thousand dollar questions is: by how much.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
@ttown said:
Not bad. Sounds like some are implying an ISO9001 facility has been comprmised... very doubtful.
The same page that claims ISO9001:2008 certification also has a certificate from SCS Global Services stating that they performed an independent assessment and that Elemetal's gold is "Responsible Source Gold."
Certification?
Least we forget the "independent" ratings agencies all said the banks were solid before they melted down. "Independent" auditors are a joke. One must look at who is paying those doing the certifying.
@AboutAg said:
I spoke too soon. Kitco is now paying an unknown amount less than generic for NTR/OPM/Elemetal and even Provident labelled bars/coins. This includes silver. So Dillon Gage and Kitco know things we don't about these bars.
Paying below spot is not uncommon for generic silver by the big boys. The 64 thousand dollar questions is: by how much.
The key here is that Kitco is paying less than GENERIC.
So if I want to sell them a bar that has no mint name on it, Kitco will pay perhaps a bit below spot. But if you sell them an NTR/OPM/Elemetal/Provident bar, they will pay even less. Unless I am missing something, they are essentially saying "We would rather have a bar with no mint named on it than an NTR/OPM/Elemetal/Provident bar."
Why? I can think of two reasons: [1] people buying generic bars are complaining that they are getting NTR/OPM/Elemetal/Provident bars, or [2] generic bars marked .999 that pass typical tests (e,g, weight/dimension) are almost always .999, but NTR/OPM/Elemetal/Provident bars often are less than that.
Who would be dumb enough to get involved in the elemental vault scam? Especially after bullion direct just burned a ton of people only a year ago.
Edited.
According to Bullion Direct's statement, somewhere around 6,000 customers bought $25M of metal from Bullion Direct, and to store for them -- but Bullion Direct did not actually purchase the metal.
Who would be dumb enough to get involved in the elemental vault scam? Especially after bullion direct just burned a ton of people only a year ago.
What happen a year ago?
They imploded basically . The nucleo thing which seemed to be working well for years went tits up and they Madeoff with the loot apparently. Theres a few threads hereabouts . Search is erratic for me here but you might be able to find them.
AboutAg, you're doing a great service for precious metals buffs!
I had dealings with both Tulving and NWT Mint, and I managed to escape unscathed, but there were warning signs - changes in behaviors, delays in shipments, a mistake in shipment (in my favor!) - stuff that any well-run operation wouldn't take but 10 minutes to rectify. When stuff starts happening, your antennae should go straight up.
Same sort of stuff started happening with SD/SS. I won't go near them now either.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
AboutAg, you're doing a great service for precious metals buffs!
I had dealings with both Tulving and NWT Mint, and I managed to escape unscathed, but there were warning signs - changes in behaviors, delays in shipments, a mistake in shipment (in my favor!) - stuff that any well-run operation wouldn't take but 10 minutes to rectify. When stuff starts happening, your antennae should go straight up.
Same sort of stuff started happening with SD/SS. I won't go near them now either.
Whoops, I meant SB/SS - Silver Bullet/Silver Shield - originally I bought a slew of Freedom Girl rounds - they had a whole drama for months on end over some internal management and ownership snafus, and the deliveries were getting stretched out beyond what was reasonable. Way too much drama as a business model.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@bronco2078 said:
we need a master thread of all the shady companies , bankruptcies and ebay sellers to avoid . Anyone want to volunteer to start that?
@bronco2078 said:
we need a master thread of all the shady companies , bankruptcies and ebay sellers to avoid . Anyone want to volunteer to start that?
I just assume they're all shady unless proven otherwise
The division selling silver is called Dorado, now. A couple of the traders took the reigns and are running with it. I ordered a few hundred more ounces but with this price drop... well, I think I will start pedaling some other crap. Like cell phones or something.
@bronco2078 said:
we need a master thread of all the shady companies , bankruptcies and ebay sellers to avoid . Anyone want to volunteer to start that?
I just assume they're all shady unless proven otherwise
the about.ag site is a great site.
the guy uncovers the dirt if there is dirt to be uncovered.
@ttown said:
Not bad. Sounds like some are implying an ISO9001 facility has been comprmised... very doubtful.
The same page that claims ISO9001:2008 certification also has a certificate from SCS Global Services stating that they performed an independent assessment and that Elemetal's gold is "Responsible Source Gold."
Certification?
Least we forget the "independent" ratings agencies all said the banks were solid before they melted down. "Independent" auditors are a joke. One must look at who is paying those doing the certifying.
Yep. I'm a certified lead auditor for ISO-9000 & 14000. Both are only as good as the people who document the system and maintain the records. The "independent" third party auditors who verify the documents/records have little idea if what they audit is valid. They typically see less than 5% of the data during an audit anyway.
The TS16949 automotive standard is a far more robust system. It requires hard data be available demonstrating conformance for every key characteristic in the process(es) audited.
Yep. I'm a certified lead auditor for ISO-9000 & 14000. Both are only as good as the people who document the system and maintain the records. The "independent" third party auditors who verify the documents/records have little idea if what they audit is valid. They typically see less than 5% of the data during an audit anyway.
The TS16949 automotive standard is a far more robust system. It requires hard data be available demonstrating conformance for every key characteristic in the process(es) audited.
And if the people who "document the system and maintain the records" used in an independent audit are actually employees of who is being audited just how "independent" (and reliable) is that audit? I spent many years as a DoD nuclear quality control specialist/auditor and am very familiar with how easily accuracy can be lost when independence is compromised. Such is the case in most financial auditing as was well demonstrated in the last major financial crisis.
Comments
If anyone has tested Elemetal/NTR/OPM bars for purity (assay, XRF, acid testing, etc.), I would be very interested in hearing the results. Details can be sent anonymously at http://about.ag/Tips.htm .
Does anyone know the history of the company. I know they have done a lot of acquisitions, but how did they get started, how long ago, and how did they get funded. They acquired some great brands, so they must be well funded.
NTR Metals started somewhere around 2004, founded by two brothers (at least one of whom is still involved today), and there is a third person that appears to have a significant interest in the company.
Somewhere around 2011, NTR started acquiring a majority interest in DGSE.
Then in April, 2012 NTR and OPM (Ohio Precious Metals) merged, and started using the Elemetal name around January 2013. So Elemetal is pretty much NTR, with a new name, corporate structure, and brand name.
Over on the dealer-to-dealer network, one dealer who had an account with them reported that he had received a check for 20% of his holdings, with a promise that he would receive an additional 20% every other month until paid in full.
Their checks are good when I refine silver/gold, and my checks are good when purchasing silver and gold from them. So far , no trouble completing transactions. Thankfully.
That is correct. Elemetal Refining -- the division of Elemetal that handles refining -- was indeed unable to pay refining customers starting around April 1 (the same time they were de-listed from LBMA/COMEX), and said they will pay back exactly as you described.
Their checks were good, until they shut down and came up with the payment schedule. They are no longer refining gold or silver.
I can melt the stuff myself. That's not a problem. As long as it's real silver they're sending me, they're just another vendor in a long line of sellers/buyers/traders
... and if anyone is a customer of Elemetal Vault and received any interesting E-mails over the past few days, I would really like to hear more about it.
Question: Are you an investigative reporter trying to dig up some dirt or do you have a personal interest in Elemetal Vault? It's quite apparent that no one on this forum, including my self, gives a hoot nor are we associated with Elemetal.
I'm the one that started warning people about Tulving, Bullion Direct, and NWT Mint several months before they went bankrupt (and am now helping the 10,000+ victims of those frauds). I don't get paid to do this (yes, there is a tiny amount of ad revenue, but the expenses are much higher).
Elemetal is quite different than those companies: Elemetal is a conglomerate of many companies, and accused of a massive not-necessarily-a-crime that doesn't hurt its customers (but is extremely damaging). Provident Metals -- a popular bullion retailer -- is one of the companies in the conglomerate.
One of Provident Metals' "sister companies" is insolvent (it owes millions of dollars that it hopes to pay back to customers within 6 months).
It's kind of like selling burglar alarms: very few people think about getting one until they are robbed, but almost everyone does afterwards. It's human nature not to give a hoot. And the truth doesn't sell, hype does, and I try very hard to avoid hype. But people would rather read a story about how George Bush led a clandestine mission to take all the gold out of Fort Knox and replace it with tungsten bars than read that the dealer they just sent $10,000 to might be having financial troubles.
But to give you a little more information about that post: I allow people to send me anonymous tips. I've received hundreds of them over the past few years (including the one that lead me to finding out about impure Elemetal/OPM/NTR bars). I just received one that said that many Elemetal Vault customers received an E-mail from Elemetal regarding their metal. Assuming it is true (as the vast majority of the tips I receive are), it is something Provident Metals customers would want to know about. Hence my query.
Can we get some details on this? Did someone actually assay these bars to check their purity? How "impure" are these bars? I own a few of these brands of silver bars and I hate to think they aren't 999 fine silver.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
The reports I have received so far show the silver bars testing fine, with some/many/most of the gold bars testing OK. From what I have heard, impure bars could be anywhere from .950 to .999 (I suspect in the .995-.998 range).
The big reason for having so little information is that it is either very costly or destructive to test purity (everyone just trusts the refiner). Most of the best methods of detecting fake bullion (e.g. silver plated copper, gold plated tungsten) can say "Yes, that is almost certainly real gold" -- but will say that whether it is .999 fine or .980 fine. So an assay (destructive) or XRF (expensive) are really the only ways to determine purity.
I have heard that Dillon Gage is no longer accepting these bars for refining. I have had several anonymous reports of assaying or XRF showing impure bars (some reportedly plated with .999 fine gold per XRF, but when melted were .950-.980). And one person I know tested 10 1oz OPM bars using a Sigma Metalytics tester with 8 testing fine, one with unclear results, and one that was way out of range for .999 fine gold (unlike assay/XRF, that isn't undeniable proof, but improves the plausibility of the anonymous information).
Why the spike in gold today ?
Dollar down because the U.S. Government might fall?
DGSE Companies, Inc. Announces Letter of Intent to Acquire Elemetal Recycling, LLC Assets
April 19, 2017 06:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
DALLAS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--DGSE Companies, Inc. (NYSE MKT:DGSE) (“DGSE” or the “Company”), a leading wholesaler and retailer of jewelry, diamonds, fine watches, and precious metal bullion and rare coin products, today announced that it has entered into a non-binding Letter of Intent with Elemetal, LLC (“Elemetal”) to acquire the tangible personal-property assets of Elemetal and Elemetal Recycling, LLC (“Recycling”) at 2101 W. Belt Line Road, Carrollton, Texas, the equipment at 10707 Composite Drive, Dallas, and certain accounts receivable of Recycling. The total estimated cash proceeds to Elemetal and Recycling from the sale and from the payment by DGSE of approximately $3.8 million of obligations owed by DGSE to Elemetal is $19.8 million. In addition, DGSE would assume certain accounts payable of Recycling.
“DGSE seeks to acquire diversified business opportunities with potential long-term rewards, and this Recycling acquisition holds great promise in working toward that strategic goal”
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No definitive agreement has been reached, and there can be no assurance that a definitive agreement will be reached. DGSE Board of Directors approval would be required for such definitive agreement.
“DGSE seeks to acquire diversified business opportunities with potential long-term rewards, and this Recycling acquisition holds great promise in working toward that strategic goal,” stated John Loftus, DGSE’s President, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer.
“Recycling is a de-manufacturer and refurbishment processor of electronics in the aftermarket supply chain. It operates principally from a 175,000 square-foot facility in Carrollton, Texas that is designed to process precious-metal-bearing products from a host of industries. Recycling conforms to ISO 9001:2008, ISO 14001:2004 and R2 practices, which we believe makes it a top choice for disposing of IT and electronics assets,” said Loftus.
Elemetal currently holds an approximately 49% interest in DGSE.
DGSE Companies, Inc. wholesales and retails jewelry, diamonds, fine watches, and precious metal bullion and rare coin products through its Charleston Gold & Diamond Exchange and Dallas Gold & Silver Exchange operations. DGSE also owns Fairchild International, Inc., one of the largest vintage watch wholesalers in the country. In addition to its retail facilities in South Carolina and Texas, the Company operates websites which can be accessed at www.dgse.com, and www.cgdeinc.com. Real-time price quotations and real-time order execution in precious metals are provided on another DGSE website at www.USBullionExchange.com. Wholesale customers can access the full vintage watch inventory through the restricted site at www.FairchildWatches.com. The Company is headquartered in Dallas, Texas and its common stock trades on the NYSE MKT exchange under the symbol “DGSE.”
This press release includes statements that may constitute “forward-looking” statements, including statements regarding the potential acquisition of Recycling and entering into a definitive agreement regarding the potential acquisition. These statements are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements inherently involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the forward-looking statements. Factors that would cause or contribute to such differences include, but are not limited to, negotiations regarding a definitive agreement, market conditions, and other risks detailed in the Company's periodic report filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. By making these forward-looking statements, the Company undertakes no obligation to update these statements for revisions or changes after the date of this release except as required by law.
Contacts
DGSE Companies, Inc.
Bret Pedersen, 469-371-2388
Is the date on that correct? One month ago, or yesterday?
So, where does it leave Provident Metals? Our "in house" private eye, has been absent for a while.
Same old, same old. Delivery is the same as it's been for the last 10 years for me.
I did a cut and paste so I think the date is probably correct. I found it when I was looking at DGSE stock price.
This deal actually pre-dates the NTR Metals gold smuggling fiasco (the letter of intent occurred after getting regulatory approval and such), so it is likely not too important. It just affects Elemetal Recycling, which handles scrap and such.
Provident so far seems OK, but given the circumstances, it's a "be cautious" situation. I wouldn't be afraid of ordering from them, but before I did, would check to make sure that there weren't reports of delivery delays. And lower the amount of money I might otherwise feel comfortable having in limbo at one time.
A few reasons for concern (NOT big red flags, but important nonetheless): Provident never responded to concerns about Elemetal Vault (and now has ceased accepting Elemetal Vault balances as payment), Elemetal Refining is effectively bankrupt (suggesting the rest of Elemetal did not have funds available to "bail out" Elemetal Refining), and the curious issue of reports of impure NTR/Elemetal/OPM bars (which it seems Provident doesn't sell anymore).
sometimes it makes more financial sense to not bail out a division and let it go into bankruptcy
especially when the assets, and not the liabilities, can be shifted to another division.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Ah, in a bankruptcy, that's referred to as a "fraudulent transfer" -- and typically just gets undone.
Elemetal's case is a bit different, as Elemetal Refining decided not to declare bankruptcy (and none of its customers have forced it into bankruptcy), so the bankruptcy rules do not apply. However, Elemetal has lead customers to believe that they will get 100% payment by December, and if they fail to do so, there is a good chance they would go the bankruptcy route, in which case any transfers to other divisions made within the previous year could get undone (it is normally 90 days, but 1 year for insiders).
How does all this drama affect the value of currently held Elemetal silver bars? I have a Kilo bar and a few 10 oz bars that I bought awhile back for a small premium over melt.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
That's likely going to depend mostly on what the final word is on the impure Elemetal bars. At this point it looks like silver isn't affected, that it is limited to gold bars. I expect that dealers would probably end up paying around the gold content of the worst bars (e.g. if it turns out bars range from .950 to .999, they would pay assuming they are .950).
Of course, there could be a premium if collectors are interested in these.
Depends. Do you have the only two.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Not bad. Sounds like some are implying an ISO9001 facility has been comprmised... very doubtful. Love these ultra high relief
https://jmbullion.com/2-oz-elemetal-white-whale-ultra-high-relief-silver-round/
wouldn't it be wise to check the content of all their products?
The same page that claims ISO9001:2008 certification also has a certificate from SCS Global Services stating that they performed an independent assessment and that Elemetal's gold is "Responsible Source Gold."
If $3.5B of illegal gold can make its way into their facilities without them knowing, do you really think the ISO9001 certification would prevent them from making impure gold bars?
Remember, when I asked Dillon Gage's refining department if the reports were true that they had stopped accepting Elemetal/NTR/OPM bars for refining, they chose to simply not respond.
I own several Elemetal/NTR/OPM silver bars. Does this mean that I should be concerned that they aren't 999 fine silver?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I haven't yet heard of any reports of the silver bars being impure, just the gold bars.
If it was a gold bar, I would definitely do some simple tests (e.g. at the very least, weigh it and check the dimensions, even though it appears that XRF/assay is the only way to be sure if the gold is very-pure-but-not-.999).
For silver bars, though, I wouldn't see a need to do anything more than whatever I might otherwise do with silver (e.g. if I had 10 1oz silver bars from one source, I might measure/weigh and/or test one, and assume the rest are OK if the dimensions and look are the same).
for coins, diameter might be ok, but strike up might be a little short... ???
I spoke too soon. Kitco is now paying an unknown amount less than generic for NTR/OPM/Elemetal and even Provident labelled bars/coins. This includes silver. So Dillon Gage and Kitco know things we don't about these bars.
Paying below spot is not uncommon for generic silver by the big boys. The 64 thousand dollar questions is: by how much.
Certification?
Least we forget the "independent" ratings agencies all said the banks were solid before they melted down. "Independent" auditors are a joke. One must look at who is paying those doing the certifying.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
The key here is that Kitco is paying less than GENERIC.
So if I want to sell them a bar that has no mint name on it, Kitco will pay perhaps a bit below spot. But if you sell them an NTR/OPM/Elemetal/Provident bar, they will pay even less. Unless I am missing something, they are essentially saying "We would rather have a bar with no mint named on it than an NTR/OPM/Elemetal/Provident bar."
Why? I can think of two reasons: [1] people buying generic bars are complaining that they are getting NTR/OPM/Elemetal/Provident bars, or [2] generic bars marked .999 that pass typical tests (e,g, weight/dimension) are almost always .999, but NTR/OPM/Elemetal/Provident bars often are less than that.
I've got 3 provident 10 or 5 oz bars somewhere maybe its time to sell those
Edited.
According to Bullion Direct's statement, somewhere around 6,000 customers bought $25M of metal from Bullion Direct, and to store for them -- but Bullion Direct did not actually purchase the metal.
They imploded basically . The nucleo thing which seemed to be working well for years went tits up and they Madeoff with the loot apparently. Theres a few threads hereabouts . Search is erratic for me here but you might be able to find them.
AboutAg, you're doing a great service for precious metals buffs!
I had dealings with both Tulving and NWT Mint, and I managed to escape unscathed, but there were warning signs - changes in behaviors, delays in shipments, a mistake in shipment (in my favor!) - stuff that any well-run operation wouldn't take but 10 minutes to rectify. When stuff starts happening, your antennae should go straight up.
Same sort of stuff started happening with SD/SS. I won't go near them now either.
I knew it would happen.
Who is SD/SS?
Who is SD/SS?
Whoops, I meant SB/SS - Silver Bullet/Silver Shield - originally I bought a slew of Freedom Girl rounds - they had a whole drama for months on end over some internal management and ownership snafus, and the deliveries were getting stretched out beyond what was reasonable. Way too much drama as a business model.
I knew it would happen.
we need a master thread of all the shady companies , bankruptcies and ebay sellers to avoid . Anyone want to volunteer to start that?
I've started that at http://about.ag/GoldSilverFraud.htm (although not including shady companies and eBay sellers).
I just assume they're all shady unless proven otherwise
The division selling silver is called Dorado, now. A couple of the traders took the reigns and are running with it. I ordered a few hundred more ounces but with this price drop... well, I think I will start pedaling some other crap. Like cell phones or something.
the about.ag site is a great site.
the guy uncovers the dirt if there is dirt to be uncovered.
Yep. I'm a certified lead auditor for ISO-9000 & 14000. Both are only as good as the people who document the system and maintain the records. The "independent" third party auditors who verify the documents/records have little idea if what they audit is valid. They typically see less than 5% of the data during an audit anyway.
The TS16949 automotive standard is a far more robust system. It requires hard data be available demonstrating conformance for every key characteristic in the process(es) audited.
And if the people who "document the system and maintain the records" used in an independent audit are actually employees of who is being audited just how "independent" (and reliable) is that audit? I spent many years as a DoD nuclear quality control specialist/auditor and am very familiar with how easily accuracy can be lost when independence is compromised. Such is the case in most financial auditing as was well demonstrated in the last major financial crisis.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt