@northcoin said:
I thought there was a post quoting the auction language which raised a question if the set was being sold as unopened. Either I can't find it or it was edited. In any event, with regard to opening it, I guess you face the Clint Eastwood's character's question: "Do you feel lucky?"
Also, note Heritage and the clever description. They avoid the word "unopened".
"Uncertified 1948 Double Mint Set, containing 28 coins in the original cardboard holders, with the still-sealed outer envelope that is postmarked March 1949 and addressed to Bryan Texas."
Also, note Heritage and the clever description. They avoid the word "unopened".
"Uncertified 1948 Double Mint Set, containing 28 coins in the original cardboard holders, with the still-sealed outer envelope that is postmarked March 1949 and addressed to Bryan Texas."
@northcoin said:
I thought there was a post quoting the auction language which raised a question if the set was being sold as unopened. Either I can't find it or it was edited. In any event, with regard to opening it, I guess you face the Clint Eastwood's character's question: "Do you feel lucky?"
Also, note Heritage and the clever description. They avoid the word "unopened".
"Uncertified 1948 Double Mint Set, containing 28 coins in the original cardboard holders, with the still-sealed outer envelope that is postmarked March 1949 and addressed to Bryan Texas."
Thanks, that was the previous quote that I was looking for but apparently was edited. My thought though would be that a reputable auction house would concede that the average buyer would interpret "still-sealed" to be the same as "unopened" and thus they would be ready and willing to take the item back if in fact it was not as would be reasonably understood. The distinction being between being "re-sealed" (opened) and "still-sealed" (unopened)
Also, note Heritage and the clever description. They avoid the word "unopened".
"Uncertified 1948 Double Mint Set, containing 28 coins in the original cardboard holders, with the still-sealed outer envelope that is postmarked March 1949 and addressed to Bryan Texas."
Another good catch Wabbit!"
I'm confused. I was not permitted to inspect the coins in this particular lot because it was offered for sale as an original sealed set? So, how could Heritage be "clever' with their description (which I honestly doubt that they were) and then not permit anyone to look at the coins at lot viewing since, according to them. they were auctioning an original sealed item? What am I missing?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Wondercoin: You can't possibly think this set is still Mint Sealed. Also, there would be no reason to lot view this to see that it is tampered with. All the pictures above are right from the auction images. It is probably easier to see the tampering from the great images rather than in hand.
@Wabbit2313 said:
PS, it sure looks like it has been tampered with a little. Note the registered mail stamp does not line up on the flap.
-
-
Here is another unopened one, same year. Also looks tampered with, but the main flap looks OK.
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The one you have certainly looks tampered with. I'm fairly certain that the one I bought is original, and I'm going to examine it carefully when I get it. If it has been tampered with, I'll send it back to Heritage as they're clearly representing it as an untampered set.
Does Heritage have a time limit on returns ?.. I returned a coin some time ago that was incorrectly described in auction catalog .. at the time they said there was a 30 day window for any auction return
@YQQ said: If you re-sell it, will a prospective buyer accept the faults the set has and agree to buy it as "not opened?"
I guess to open or not also depends on what you have invested in the set. are you willing to take a hit if you paid too much?
Personally, I would ask heritage for a "unopened" guarantee and see what they say... or, if they hesitate, give it back.
or , make a deal with them.
eventually (if they own it) it will show up again in an auction in the future.
I paid $2,350 for it which is about $1,500 more then an open set. I'm willing to take the loss if it's actually been sealed since it left the mint, as that's what I signed up for. However, if it's been opened then I'll feel cheated as I never even had a chance.
All of this leaves me wondering if there's a way to know after I've opened it that the coins inside have been replaced or previously looked at. Any mint set experts here?
Wabbit: No one has answered my question. If the set was clearly tampered with such that anyone could essentially see it from a mile away, why would an auction house then not permit anyone to look at the coins inside the set? Can it really be both ways?
An original fresh opened 1948 Mint Set is worth substantially more than $763 in my opinion. I won't comment on the $763 auction lot because someone out there bought it. I would personally pay this week $1,000 - $1,500 sight-seen for an original fresh opened 1948 Mint set. If anyone has one, please send me a PM.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
While I would not call myself an expert, I own enough of them to be dangerous. The opened set posted above is a perfectly matched set. I have seen them all bright white, (impossible), and I have seen some where a couple coins stand out like a sore thumb. (Switched out)
This set would have to be opened and if they all looked like the set above, I am thinking the owner will be disappointed. There would have to be a couple amazing coins in there to cover the $2350, another reason to not fall for "unopened" sets. No offense intended to the current owner.
@MACGE1 said:
All of this leaves me wondering if there's a way to know after I've opened it that the coins inside have been replaced or previously looked at. Any mint set experts here?
To know what is in it, you have to open it .. opened Mint set dissolves a lot of premium paid by bidder .
Reminds when I was buying unopened 2008 American Silver Eagles . looking for the Rev 2007 Eagles . Some boxes were carefully opened and then re glued ..... it is beware
Look at the strong price offered by wondercoin .. if you how qualms about opening set , shop the set at a coin show .. guess quite a few dealers would notice the set
On eBay, unopened sets just means they currently aren't open.
It's a big financial risk to open it. I've never had one that old, but I've never found any gems in the unopened sets I've bought and opened.
That being said, I think you should open it. We'd all be rooting for you and would share in the fun, but on the other had we wouldn't share in the loss
I would have bought it with the understanding that it had never been opened. To me, that justifies the higher $$$. If there were any doubt upon examining the seal, I'd return it.
Why not open? Is it worth that much more sealed? These are easy questions. Either you get a bunch of white coins or maybe a monster. The possibilities are there for a monster. Do you want it or do you want to give it to someone else?
That seal certainly doesn't look original to me. More than likely someone has already seen the contents of this set. The question I suppose is how long ago that was and if the risk is worth the premium to keep the set.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Determine why you purchased it.............based on that and the thoughts posted above...........that should determine whether you open it or not. either way, please keep us updated.
My thoughts are this is an original set. Also this year does not normally produce the toners that you would expect from a 57 or 58 set. From what I have seen unopened sets produce even less chance for toning. So to open it would cost you $1,500 most likely. Good luck.
@ricko said:
Well... what is the decision??? Inquiring minds want to know......... Cheers, RickO
When I get the set I'm going to carefully examine it. If I determine it to be original, I'm going to open it. If it isn't then I'll send it back to Heritage
@ricko said:
Well... what is the decision??? Inquiring minds want to know......... Cheers, RickO
When I get the set I'm going to carefully examine it. If I determine it to be original, I'm going to open it. If it isn't then I'll send it back to Heritage
If it's advertised as "never been opened"...
It's been opened.
A little common sense here,
Who would buy _anything_blind, then sell it without knowing it's true value. And those are the "honest" crooks. Let's talk about the ones who swap out coins, then reseal.
"Just because you were born on 3rd base doesn't mean you hit a triple"
Unless it gets shipped overnight, it probably won't arrive for another day or so.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@ricko said:
Well... what is the decision??? Inquiring minds want to know......... Cheers, RickO
When I get the set I'm going to carefully examine it. If I determine it to be original, I'm going to open it. If it isn't then I'll send it back to Heritage
Heritage should refuse a return as the broken seal is clear as day in the photo IMHO.
I got the set today and after careful review I can't say that I'm too confident that it hasn't been opened. The flap, seems to have been moved ever so slightly, combined with being torn on either side it doesn't look good. I really hoped to have an original set and see what was inside (I'm pretty tempted to just open this one out of sheer curiosity), so I'm pretty bummed not to have had the chance. I guess if anyone comes across original mint sets.... I'm feeling lucky.
Edited to add the obvious - back to Heritage it is I guess.
@MACGE1 said:
I got the set today and after careful review I can't say that I'm too confident that it hasn't been opened. The flap, seems to have been moved ever so slightly, combined with being torn on either side it doesn't look good. I really hoped to have an original set and see what was inside (I'm pretty tempted to just open this one out of sheer curiosity), so I'm pretty bummed not to have had the chance. I guess if anyone comes across original mint sets.... I'm feeling lucky.
Edited to add the obvious - back to Heritage it is I guess.
This is the type of stuff that makes auction houses loathe to allow returns ever even when legitimate. The problem was clear as day in the photos. You bought it anyway. The return strikes me as abusive and frivolous.
@MACGE1 said:
I got the set today and after careful review I can't say that I'm too confident that it hasn't been opened. The flap, seems to have been moved ever so slightly, combined with being torn on either side it doesn't look good. I really hoped to have an original set and see what was inside (I'm pretty tempted to just open this one out of sheer curiosity), so I'm pretty bummed not to have had the chance. I guess if anyone comes across original mint sets.... I'm feeling lucky.
Edited to add the obvious - back to Heritage it is I guess.
It is clear that you saw things upon inspection that were in addition to what was apparent from the photos so I am sure a reputable auction house should have no problem honoring the return - especially since their description of the set as having remained sealed is most likely erroneous based upon what many others have opined on this thread.
That said, I can understand the consignor, whomever that might be, could be upset that his/her attempt to pull a fast one didn't work.
@MACGE1 said:
I got the set today and after careful review I can't say that I'm too confident that it hasn't been opened. The flap, seems to have been moved ever so slightly, combined with being torn on either side it doesn't look good. I really hoped to have an original set and see what was inside (I'm pretty tempted to just open this one out of sheer curiosity), so I'm pretty bummed not to have had the chance. I guess if anyone comes across original mint sets.... I'm feeling lucky.
Edited to add the obvious - back to Heritage it is I guess.
It is clear that you saw things upon inspection that were in addition to what was apparent from the photos so I am sure a reputable auction house should have no problem honoring the return - especially since their description of the set as having remained sealed is most likely erroneous based upon what many others have opined on this thread.
That said, I can understand the consignor, whomever that might be, could be upset that his/her attempt to pull a fast one didn't work.
+1
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Easy solution for an auction company and its consignor in the future ...
Allow prospective bidders to actually lot view the coins in the set (after the auction house carefully opens the lot). The coins might have been wonderful and the lot might have sold for even more (or less if the coins were junk); or
State in the lot description that it has no returns permitted on it whatsoever as the lot is arguably sealed, but has signs that it may have been opened in the past.
Really easy for the auction house to deal with this kind of merchandise and if they had chosen #2. I suspect the lot would have sold for about $1,250 plus the juice (around $800 or so less than it did). That is what I would have probably bid for it.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
After HA refuses to allow you to return the set (all sales are final, returns at their discretion and it would not surprise me that they had consulted legal before posting the listing - the wording is too careful)...
Comments
Also, note Heritage and the clever description. They avoid the word "unopened".
"Uncertified 1948 Double Mint Set, containing 28 coins in the original cardboard holders, with the still-sealed outer envelope that is postmarked March 1949 and addressed to Bryan Texas."
Another good catch Wabbit!
Thanks, that was the previous quote that I was looking for but apparently was edited. My thought though would be that a reputable auction house would concede that the average buyer would interpret "still-sealed" to be the same as "unopened" and thus they would be ready and willing to take the item back if in fact it was not as would be reasonably understood. The distinction being between being "re-sealed" (opened) and "still-sealed" (unopened)
"@Wabbit2313 said:
Also, note Heritage and the clever description. They avoid the word "unopened".
"Uncertified 1948 Double Mint Set, containing 28 coins in the original cardboard holders, with the still-sealed outer envelope that is postmarked March 1949 and addressed to Bryan Texas."
Another good catch Wabbit!"
I'm confused. I was not permitted to inspect the coins in this particular lot because it was offered for sale as an original sealed set? So, how could Heritage be "clever' with their description (which I honestly doubt that they were) and then not permit anyone to look at the coins at lot viewing since, according to them. they were auctioning an original sealed item? What am I missing?
Wondercoin
Wondercoin: You can't possibly think this set is still Mint Sealed. Also, there would be no reason to lot view this to see that it is tampered with. All the pictures above are right from the auction images. It is probably easier to see the tampering from the great images rather than in hand.
Does Heritage have a time limit on returns ?.. I returned a coin some time ago that was incorrectly described in auction catalog .. at the time they said there was a 30 day window for any auction return
The Mint set was indeed opened before
What was the hammer price for the Mint sets ?
It's amazing the premium paid for unopened sets, if it is unopened. In the same auction:
1948 mint set, opened, $763
1948 mint set sealed, $2350
I paid $2,350 for it which is about $1,500 more then an open set. I'm willing to take the loss if it's actually been sealed since it left the mint, as that's what I signed up for. However, if it's been opened then I'll feel cheated as I never even had a chance.
All of this leaves me wondering if there's a way to know after I've opened it that the coins inside have been replaced or previously looked at. Any mint set experts here?
Wabbit: No one has answered my question. If the set was clearly tampered with such that anyone could essentially see it from a mile away, why would an auction house then not permit anyone to look at the coins inside the set? Can it really be both ways?
An original fresh opened 1948 Mint Set is worth substantially more than $763 in my opinion. I won't comment on the $763 auction lot because someone out there bought it. I would personally pay this week $1,000 - $1,500 sight-seen for an original fresh opened 1948 Mint set. If anyone has one, please send me a PM.
Wondercoin
"Any mint set experts here?"
I'll tell you the answer to your question within 3 minutes of seeing the coins. LOL.
Wondercoin
While I would not call myself an expert, I own enough of them to be dangerous. The opened set posted above is a perfectly matched set. I have seen them all bright white, (impossible), and I have seen some where a couple coins stand out like a sore thumb. (Switched out)
This set would have to be opened and if they all looked like the set above, I am thinking the owner will be disappointed. There would have to be a couple amazing coins in there to cover the $2350, another reason to not fall for "unopened" sets. No offense intended to the current owner.
To know what is in it, you have to open it .. opened Mint set dissolves a lot of premium paid by bidder .
Reminds when I was buying unopened 2008 American Silver Eagles . looking for the Rev 2007 Eagles . Some boxes were carefully opened and then re glued ..... it is beware
Look at the strong price offered by wondercoin .. if you how qualms about opening set , shop the set at a coin show .. guess quite a few dealers would notice the set
I would personally pay this week $1,000 - $1,500 sight-seen for an original fresh opened 1948 Mint set. If anyone has one, please send me a PM.
Wondercoin: Would you pay $1500 for the set listed above?
Wabbit... yes I would.
Wondercoin.
"Shut up, Beavis!!!"
On eBay, unopened sets just means they currently aren't open.
It's a big financial risk to open it. I've never had one that old, but I've never found any gems in the unopened sets I've bought and opened.
That being said, I think you should open it. We'd all be rooting for you and would share in the fun, but on the other had we wouldn't share in the loss
I would have bought it with the understanding that it had never been opened. To me, that justifies the higher $$$. If there were any doubt upon examining the seal, I'd return it.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
I think that the set is an unopened set
That minor stuff on the seal is normal wear and tear
Yes. As a postal history collector and paper restorer, my opinion is that the flap was opened and resealed.
Why not open? Is it worth that much more sealed? These are easy questions. Either you get a bunch of white coins or maybe a monster. The possibilities are there for a monster. Do you want it or do you want to give it to someone else?
I would return it, but must say that I do not understand paying 3 times the $$$'s for coins I can't see.
Kinda like a blind date. Could be bad. Really bad. Then again you might score. Could be a home run. Grand slam. Be brave. OPEN THAT SUCKER! NOW!!!!!
That seal certainly doesn't look original to me. More than likely someone has already seen the contents of this set. The question I suppose is how long ago that was and if the risk is worth the premium to keep the set.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
IMO it was opened.
I have to agree with TheDukeK since the set had to have been opened for that little bug to get out and crawl all around his post.
Determine why you purchased it.............based on that and the thoughts posted above...........that should determine whether you open it or not. either way, please keep us updated.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Who knows? Might be some nice Kennedys in there!
Kennedys in 1948???
OK, I initially missed the switch out joke.
So ----------- Do you feel lucky?
My thoughts are this is an original set. Also this year does not normally produce the toners that you would expect from a 57 or 58 set. From what I have seen unopened sets produce even less chance for toning. So to open it would cost you $1,500 most likely. Good luck.
Well... what is the decision??? Inquiring minds want to know.........
Cheers, RickO
When I get the set I'm going to carefully examine it. If I determine it to be original, I'm going to open it. If it isn't then I'll send it back to Heritage
Munching on Popcorn waiting on photos!
Thanks.... will be interested in what you find when received.... be sure to let us know.... Cheers, RickO
I'm amazed it was even delivered.
It only had 46c postage on it.
If it's advertised as "never been opened"...
It's been opened.
A little common sense here,
Who would buy _anything_blind, then sell it without knowing it's true value. And those are the "honest" crooks. Let's talk about the ones who swap out coins, then reseal.
"Just because you were born on 3rd base doesn't mean you hit a triple"
If you have 'Harry Wood' don't mess with it...leave it alone!
My son was born in Bryan Texas
Let us know how it turns out.
Update?
Unless it gets shipped overnight, it probably won't arrive for another day or so.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Heritage should refuse a return as the broken seal is clear as day in the photo IMHO.
...now Heritage knows where to set the starting bid after returned
I got the set today and after careful review I can't say that I'm too confident that it hasn't been opened. The flap, seems to have been moved ever so slightly, combined with being torn on either side it doesn't look good. I really hoped to have an original set and see what was inside (I'm pretty tempted to just open this one out of sheer curiosity), so I'm pretty bummed not to have had the chance. I guess if anyone comes across original mint sets.... I'm feeling lucky.
Edited to add the obvious - back to Heritage it is I guess.
This is the type of stuff that makes auction houses loathe to allow returns ever even when legitimate. The problem was clear as day in the photos. You bought it anyway. The return strikes me as abusive and frivolous.
It is clear that you saw things upon inspection that were in addition to what was apparent from the photos so I am sure a reputable auction house should have no problem honoring the return - especially since their description of the set as having remained sealed is most likely erroneous based upon what many others have opined on this thread.
That said, I can understand the consignor, whomever that might be, could be upset that his/her attempt to pull a fast one didn't work.
+1
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Easy solution for an auction company and its consignor in the future ...
Allow prospective bidders to actually lot view the coins in the set (after the auction house carefully opens the lot). The coins might have been wonderful and the lot might have sold for even more (or less if the coins were junk); or
State in the lot description that it has no returns permitted on it whatsoever as the lot is arguably sealed, but has signs that it may have been opened in the past.
Really easy for the auction house to deal with this kind of merchandise and if they had chosen #2. I suspect the lot would have sold for about $1,250 plus the juice (around $800 or so less than it did). That is what I would have probably bid for it.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
After HA refuses to allow you to return the set (all sales are final, returns at their discretion and it would not surprise me that they had consulted legal before posting the listing - the wording is too careful)...
You can have the set certified as to being an original double mint set: http://www.coinweek.com/dealers-companies/anacs/anacs-osv-announce-joint-verification-certification-double-mint-sets/
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")