1948 sealed mint set - to open or not? UPDATE

MACGE1 · February 21, 2017 4:03PM

I was having a conversation with wondercoin on the day of the Heritage Long Beach auction and he mentioned in a matter of fact way that there was an original sealed 1948 mint set in the sale. I had completely missed it going through the auction on the website, and Mitch knew that I like to buy original sealed mint sets. In our discussion he mentioned that an open set is worth approximately $1000 and asked me how lucky I'm feeling. I've never even seen an unopened 1947-1949 mint set so voice in the back of my head told me to just buy it.

On one hand I'd love to open it and see what's inside and how the coins have reacted to being in a mint set for so many years. On the other hand if I open it up and the coins are ugly and all banged up I'll be pretty disappointed. I'm inclined to open it, as I don't think I can resist the temptation of it just sitting in my collection for too long.

I've got 2 questions,

Firstly should I open it up? Second, has anyone here had any experiences opening up 1947-1949 mint sets?

Meltdown · February 21, 2017 4:35PM

Open that sucker so I can see it. If it were mine, I'd probably keep it sealed though!

toyz4geo · February 21, 2017 4:42PM

Now, that is a delemma! And a great temptation. If you decide to free the set from their 68 year entombment, please take lots of pictures to share.

Wabbit2313 · February 21, 2017 4:47PM

Howdy:

In the same sale, there was an opened 1948 mint set. Is it logical it is from the same owner? It was $1600 less, or about 1/3 the price of yours. If it is from the same owner, stored in the same area, logic would say it looks about the same, since it is in the same mint set cards.

Here is the image.

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cmerlo1 · February 21, 2017 4:48PM

Here's hoping you get beautiful rainbows and not gray blots.

Wabbit2313 · February 21, 2017 4:55PM

PS, it sure looks like it has been tampered with a little. Note the registered mail stamp does not line up on the flap.

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Here is another unopened one, same year. Also looks tampered with, but the main flap looks OK.

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morgandollar1878 · February 21, 2017 5:06PM

@Wabbit2313 said:
PS, it sure looks like it has been tampered with a little. Note the registered mail stamp does not line up on the flap.

Here is an unopened one, same year.

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Sure looks like it has been opened to me. Left flap is folded inside and I see glue a residue line on the left side in the pic.

AUandAG · February 21, 2017 5:17PM

Sure does look like someone has peeked in the past. Left side as stated above.

bob

BStrauss3 · February 21, 2017 5:27PM

You might consider sending it to ANACS - they have a deal where they are certifying sets as original through a cooperative arrangement with somebody.

MACGE1 · February 21, 2017 5:37PM

@Wabbit2313 said:
PS, it sure looks like it has been tampered with a little. Note the registered mail stamp does not line up on the flap.

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Here is another unopened one, same year. Also looks tampered with, but the main flap looks OK.

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The one you have certainly looks tampered with. I'm fairly certain that the one I bought is original, and I'm going to examine it carefully when I get it. If it has been tampered with, I'll send it back to Heritage as they're clearly representing it as an untampered set.

amwldcoin · February 21, 2017 5:40PM

I see lottsa paranoia here! What would you look like after almost 70 years. I see nothing to make me suspect it was opened and resealed!

Open that sucker! Why else did you buy it? The longer you wait the better chance all will be discounted as resealed!

georgiacop50 · February 21, 2017 5:46PM

Good catch Wabbit... the OP's absolutely been opened and resealed.

Wabbit2313 · February 21, 2017 5:47PM

@MACGE1 said:

The one you have certainly looks tampered with. I'm fairly certain that the one I bought is original, and I'm going to examine it carefully when I get it. If it has been tampered with, I'll send it back to Heritage as they're clearly representing it as an untampered set.

Good idea: The whole point of circular registered mail stamps are that they have to line up on the flaps exactly, or it was tampered with. Yours do not seem to line up, and the main treasury stamp is torn. I wish you the best!!

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lablover · February 21, 2017 5:48PM

@MACGE1 said:

@Wabbit2313 said:
PS, it sure looks like it has been tampered with a little. Note the registered mail stamp does not line up on the flap.

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Here is another unopened one, same year. Also looks tampered with, but the main flap looks OK.

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The one you have certainly looks tampered with. I'm fairly certain that the one I bought is original, and I'm going to examine it carefully when I get it. If it has been tampered with, I'll send it back to Heritage as they're clearly representing it as an untampered set.

Looks totally original to me, and I've owned quite a few unopened sets. After 58 years I would not expect the "flaps" to be perfect. There are so few unopened sets I'd keep it as is. If, one day you choose to sell it's worth more unopened then if it's opened and is common. i.e.: very untoned. You'll lose your #$%.
Just my opinion...

RichieURich · February 21, 2017 5:52PM

Well, I'm a definite buyer at $39.95!!!

amwldcoin · February 21, 2017 5:53PM

You guys that think it is opened and resealed don't realize what the passage of time will do to things! Especially paper products!

carabonnair · February 21, 2017 5:53PM

The CIA Flaps and Seals Manual may help determine if it has been opened.

davewesen · February 21, 2017 6:11PM

Unless you plan on selling it sealed, I would open it. Some of the toning may have already gone terminal.

mannie gray · February 21, 2017 6:12PM

I agree that the above set has been messed with.
Part of the security of registered mail is to prevent opening/resealing after theft of contents.
That set has definitely been opened.

To the OP, there's no way I would open your set if it is original and sealed.
You have nothing to gain really and a lot to lose.
I know it sucks to have something and "not really have it", but that's your conundrum.

DollarAfterDollar · February 21, 2017 7:09PM

I'm of the opposite mindset. These sets (not necessarily a 1948 set) have a tendency to tone and tone and tone until terminal. I'm a big advocate of stabilizing these sets before it's too late. I've seen enough 1955 through 1958 sets that are terminal.

This is another way to end up with a loss.

ChrisH821 · February 21, 2017 7:23PM

Schrodinger's coins: until you open it they are both beautiful and ugly.

davewesen · February 21, 2017 7:39PM

@ChrisH821 said:
Schrodinger's coins: until you open it they are both beautiful and ugly.

... and worth more because of the possibility of beautiful...

MICHAELDIXON · February 21, 2017 7:45PM

I like the set as original and would put stock in Heritage selling it as an unopened set as opposed to those who are only making a WAG from pictures.

mannie gray · February 21, 2017 7:50PM

From my dealer (profit) mentality I see more perceived value to potential buyers down the road if left unopened.
The chances that there will be nice toners is relatively small; as $after$ alluded to, 1948s aren't known for spectacular or even attractive colors.
But a potential buyer may likely think it has a chance to be THAT one spectacular elusive toned set, and will bid according to that wish/belief/perception.
If the set is opened and out comes a bunch of blotchy grey/brown dull coins.......ouch.

shorecoll · February 21, 2017 7:54PM

I know there are some true experts on here, and I'm sure Heritage has access to others.

I would like to see in writing from them that they actually had an expert review it. The lines on the seal should not have moved, no matter how old it is, but what do I know?

Wabbit2313 · February 21, 2017 8:07PM

@shorecoll said:
I know there are some true experts on here, and I'm sure Heritage has access to others.

I would like to see in writing from them that they actually had an expert review it. The lines on the seal should not have moved, no matter how old it is, but what do I know?

And why didn't they move on the opposite flap? It seems unlikely they would only move on one side no matter how old this thing is. Also, note Heritage and the clever description. They avoid the word "unopened".

"Uncertified 1948 Double Mint Set, containing 28 coins in the original cardboard holders, with the still-sealed outer envelope that is postmarked March 1949 and addressed to Bryan Texas."

lablover · February 21, 2017 8:09PM

@MICHAELDIXON said:
I like the set as original and would put stock in Heritage selling it as an unopened set as opposed to those who are only making a WAG from pictures.

Really? Heritage is interested in protecting the Seller, not the buyer! That has been my experience, and that of many others.

oih82w8 · February 21, 2017 10:23PM

Just open it and get it over with!

georgiacop50 · February 21, 2017 10:31PM

@MICHAELDIXON said:
I like the set as original and would put stock in Heritage selling it as an unopened set as opposed to those who are only making a WAG from pictures.

How ridiculous! WAG? One can plainly see the postmark lines do not line up properly. And anyone saying it could have shifted due to age is dead wrong.

Maybe Michaeldixon is the consignor?!

Capgun · February 21, 2017 11:16PM

Sounds like you may have gotten bad advice upon purchasing. Putting that aside, would you take a chance selling the set as "original sealed mint set." Just open it.

ricko · February 22, 2017 6:10AM

Obviously, the final decision is yours.... Likely you will decide to send it back rather than open it, just based on the inputs here.... If it were my decision, and examination said it was unopened (contrary to some inputs here), I would open it... that is just how I am when it comes to these things. I have (years ago) purchased unopened GSA coins... since I do not sell coins, it made no sense to me to leave them hidden... so, I opened them all.... nice coins. Cheers, RickO

grip · February 22, 2017 6:37AM

Steamed open and resealed?

Wabbit2313 · February 22, 2017 6:47AM

It's amazing the premium paid for unopened sets, if it is unopened. In the same auction:

1948 mint set, opened, $763
1948 mint set sealed, $2350

Outhaul · February 22, 2017 6:53AM

@grip said:
Steamed open and resealed?

That's what I'm thinking.

tincup · February 22, 2017 8:02AM

It is true age does some strange things to paper items as they age... but I have not seen lines shift like on that registration stamp. IMO the item was opened then resealed in the past, or perhaps elapsed time itself caused it to 'reseal' but at a shifted alignment. I would not open; decision to me would be to decide whether to return or keep. If keeping it, trying to sell later as an original sealed set will potentially be a problem, as that misaligned stamp will continue to result in questions.

Walkerfan · February 22, 2017 8:14AM

It looks fooled with. I'd return it.

Time won't cause a paper seal to break and separate. JMHO.

Wabbit2313 · February 22, 2017 8:21AM

Not to kick the dead horse. The stamps are also more faded on the flap compared to the right side of the envelope, which could be a result of steam or water opening and resealing. In fact, they disappear in several areas.

OldEastside · February 22, 2017 8:26AM

hehehehehe Sorry, I'm still cracking up over 'Harry Wood"

Steve

COINS MAKE CENTS · February 22, 2017 8:36AM

Looks messed with to me for sure

wondercoin · February 22, 2017 9:14AM

Best of luck OP with the set!

I lot viewed the Long Beach sale for an afternoon last Wednesday for one main reason - to review the work of my son Justin, who lot viewed the sale for me and my customers two days earlier in Beverly Hills at the Heritage offices. Justin never even lot viewed the Mint Sets that day, because they were not on the list of coins me or my customers wanted him to vette.

And, let me be clear that I had total confidence in Justin's work as he has been lot viewing coins with me since he was 5 or 6 years old (he is now 25). I did not want to go to Long Beach on Wednesday as I wanted to submit more coins to PCGS for the show at their office in Irvine, CA. But, Justin wanted me to screen his work; in fact (in his own words) he wanted me to tear apart his work if possible in an effort to possibly make him even a stronger grader (and insisted upon me going).

So that is what I did. For around four hours I tore his work apart wherever I could. The wonderful Heritage ladies who hand you the coins at lot viewing all remembered Justin from two days earlier in Beverly Hills and were all really getting a kick out of our father-son exchanges. I had a friend visiting (who himself has nine kids) from NYC who stopped by the show to say hello (and knows nothing about grading coins) who whispered to me after about the first 15 minutes that I was "being hard on the boy"). I told him that is what Justin insisted that I do to make him an even stronger grader. One of the Heritage ladies who heard the exchange smiled at me in full agreement with my actions.

The bottom line is Justin did a great job overall vetting the coins in Beverly Hills. On the vast majority of the lots I agreed with his assessment 100% and on those I did not agree, there were a number of them where "reasonable men may differ" and he could have been correct on some of them. I know for certain that he did a great job because he lost nearly all his upgrade shot coins he was excited about winning even with me bidding upwards of nearly 2/3 of the way to the next grade he was shooting for! That was my fault, of course, not Justin's. Next time, I'll bid 80% of the way to the grade Justin was shooting for and we will see what happens.

Before I get to a discussion of the Mint set lot in question, I wanted to give that background information on why I was even in the Heritage lot viewing room that day. But, I ended up writing so much, I need to take a break right now to return some calls and answer some emails. More coming later tonight.

Wondercoin.

asheland · February 22, 2017 9:24AM

Just open it!

AMRC · February 22, 2017 9:30AM

Question is moot. It does not pass the "sealed" test. You are just reopening it.

MACGE1 · February 22, 2017 9:41AM

Thanks everyone for your input. I should have the set in a few days, when I'll be able to take a closer look and post more pictures.

mariner67 · February 22, 2017 9:42AM

Just me opinion...it was previously opened.
I would return it but I am not into unopened sets.
Best of luck.

YQQ · February 22, 2017 9:55AM

If you re-sell it, will a prospective buyer accept the faults the set has and agree to buy it as "not opened?"
I guess to open or not also depends on what you have invested in the set. are you willing to take a hit if you paid too much?
Personally, I would ask heritage for a "unopened" guarantee and see what they say... or, if they hesitate, give it back.
or , make a deal with them.
eventually (if they own it) it will show up again in an auction in the future.

NumisOxide · February 22, 2017 10:12AM

I agree looks opened to me. The treasury seal looks like its been lifted up on the left side, the two corners are damaged. The round date stamp is not aligned.

Baley · February 22, 2017 10:14AM

I wouldn't buy the OP set as unopened, there is clear evidence of tampering. If opened now, I'd expect to find coins similar to the second set posted as a best case, and as a worse case, some or all switched coins.

I'd lay odds against beautiful rainbows or other ultra gems.

And if kept intact, I'd expect that paper envelope to be very difficult to resell as "original, unopened" with that appearance.

Maybe they used Occam's razor to lift the flap after steaming it?

Sonorandesertrat · February 22, 2017 10:18AM

@ChrisH821 said:
Schrodinger's coins: until you open it they are both beautiful and ugly.

POTD

lkeigwin · February 22, 2017 10:49AM

I don't see what an "unopened guarantee" from Heritage means (if you could even get one).

If it were mine, and I hoped someday to sell it as unopened, I would not want the burden of defending it or persuading potential buyers. So I'd return it now while I likely can.
Lance.

cameonut2011 · February 22, 2017 11:13AM

.

northcoin · February 22, 2017 11:34AM

I thought there was a post quoting the auction language which raised a question if the set was being sold as unopened. Either I can't find it or it was edited.

In any event, with regard to opening it, I guess you face the Clint Eastwood's character's question: "Do you feel lucky?"

As to the comment in the immediately above post, if in fact the auction house was representing this item as being sealed and they agree with you that their representation was inaccurate, what difference would it make if someone could tell from the photos that what they were saying was not accurate? I believe all major auction houses guarantee the authenticity of the items they sell and this would seem to be more an authenticity issue based upon the written representations.

1948 sealed mint set - to open or not? UPDATE

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