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Dealers at small shows with less business activity

logger7logger7 Posts: 8,022 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 14, 2017 2:58PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I go to a few of the smaller shows and know a few dealers who tell me they are doing next to zero business; Albany and Parsippany have monthly Sunday shows with excellent floor traffic and more business. There are small shows in the northeast where many dealers see little activity. Yet I still see a number of them continuing to set up at those one day shows, and some have little of interest or fresh to offer collectors. What are the best shows to set up for maximum advantage?

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Comments

  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    I go to a few of the smaller shows and know a few dealers who tell me they are doing next to zero business; Albany and Parsippany have monthly Sunday shows. There are small shows in the northeast where many dealers see little activity. Yet I still see a number of them continuing to set up at those one day shows, and some have little of interest or fresh to offer collectors. Is this a case of what Einstein said about repeating the same thing expecting different results?

    Tell em to lower their prices and then see what happens ;)

  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't go to them any more. I always see the same old stuff. Just like some coin ship I use too go to that turn there bid boards to buy boards same old stuff with a very small touch of new that don't last long so it's just not worth my time and I use to spend a lot of $$$ per week there. Now I take it to other shops but that is just me.



    Hoard the keys.
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,022 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One small show dealer who actually has decent material from time to time said that in over six months I and another guy from my town were his only customers. Actually at some of the small shows there can be few serious buyers even if there is reasonably priced material.

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 9,953 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it's all relative. Those guys represent an important leg of the hobby's chair IMO.

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wish I could find a nice small quiet little show with great inventory. I'd love that :) The problem with that is there's no coin shows around where I live.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2017 7:46PM

    I agree with some of the above, same thing here, same old stale inventory and high as@ prices. I keep my stuff movin, most make a profit, some don't, but out it goes. The other dealer across town here does mostly shows and he said show business sucks as of late, but he is the kind of dealer who may buy a coin for x, ask x+, and wont budge until a buyer finally comes along. Might be 5 years, but he wont budge. a live and die by the price guide guy.
    Local flea market dealers same way , price high, all they sell lately is bullion related material.

    Here is a perfect example of part of the problem. Silver is up a little, they have buyers willing too pay 14-15x face for 90%, well they are out of 90% currently. So instead of taking common silver proof sets from say 2000-2007 and bust em up for there 90% buyers. (and move unsaleable sets they have had laying around for years), they buy my 90% break up stuff from a large silver proof set deal I bought late last week in which I busted. I made a good profit, and its gone.

  • RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    I go to a few of the smaller shows and know a few dealers who tell me they are doing next to zero business; Albany and Parsippany have monthly Sunday shows. There are small shows in the northeast where many dealers see little activity. Yet I still see a number of them continuing to set up at those one day shows, and some have little of interest or fresh to offer collectors. Is this a case of what Einstein said about repeating the same thing expecting different results?

    Are the Albany shows still at the Polish Community Center?

    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jackthecat1 said:
    I do think that some dealers set up simply out of habit or to get out of the house.

    When I was a dealer there was one fellow who had items for sale like a box of Jefferson Nickels that you could find in pocket change for a dime each. Yes, I think that getting out of the house on Sunday morning was his main objective.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Type2 said:
    I don't go to them any more. I always see the same old stuff. Just like some coin ship I use too go to that turn there bid boards to buy boards same old stuff with a very small touch of new that don't last long so it's just not worth my time and I use to spend a lot of $$$ per week there. Now I take it to other shops but that is just me.

    I know brother, it sucks big time.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,022 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Both the Albany show (at the Polish center) and Parsippany can be really good shows if fresh material comes in. I have bought high end coins, some PCGS coins from time to time in NJ. But the early bird usually gets the worm.

  • KccoinKccoin Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with alot of the above, as I have seen some of the repeat shows myself. But you gotta hand it to the guys behind the table. If there were no coin dealers, there'd be no coin shows.

  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,880 ✭✭✭✭✭

    remember if nothing new comes into the shops nothing new is showing up at shows!

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • UltraHighReliefUltraHighRelief Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I go to the Parsippany show almost every month, and it's almost always worth going to. There is always a good crowd at the show with a decent amount of collectors that attend.

    While there are a few dealers with stale inventory, there are also some dealers with nice and quality coins for sale.

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2017 9:09PM

    I occasionally go to Parsippany and it's quite a busy show. I do know there's a few guys that are retired and are dabbling in this for fun with profit being an added bonus. For them it's the love of the hobby just like us, only they're standing on the other side of the street.

    There are also those who are there strictly for business, but Parsippany (at least in my opinion) has the business. It's a good show and it's sometimes difficult to get down the aisles.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2017 9:52PM

    @PTVETTER said:
    remember if nothing new comes into the shops nothing new is showing up at shows!

    Depends on the dealers. Quite a few of them hold back the better stuff for the local or regional shows that they attend. Some might be waiting to show them to top graders for opinions who might only attend the shows. At the local shows I set up at from 2002-2011, half or more of the tables were manned by dealers without a shop. It's also true that many collectors bring their coins specifically to a show to sell rather than trudge them from one B&M to the next, which is time consuming....plus you get exposure to the regional vest-pocket crowd, as well as those reps for national dealers who routinely scour these shows to bring stuff back to their clientele. Often times it appears that nothing fresh is showing up....while these guys work behind the scenes to vacuum them up.

    One of my local B&M's for 30 yrs rarely showed anything truly neat/fresh to their customers. They chose instead to put good stuff away for the monthly visit by a big time national dealer who would clean them out. They were tickled to get 5 and 6 figure checks figuring they were making a killing. What was really happening was that some of the best coins in the state were being sucked up to never appear again....at nicely discounted prices. You see, those guys couldn't grade raw coins for beans. It was legalized removal of our state's treasures. At least, when a better informed dealer took over the business about 20 yrs ago, that activity has been largely curtailed, thanks to the TPGs.

    If there were no coin dealers, there still could be a "coin show" where collectors bought/sold/traded amongst themselves. You might often this occurring at the entrance to regular coin shops, in the refreshment area, and other places. Ebay in some cases could be considered a coin show for collectors. In more esoteric areas where few dealers exist, it might be collector-collector activity that generates most of the transactions. The numismatic dealer/collector line has continued to weaken over the years. B&M's (and shows) are slowly disappearing.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @roadrunner said:

    @PTVETTER said:
    remember if nothing new comes into the shops nothing new is showing up at shows!

    Depends on the dealers. Quite a few of them hold back the better stuff for the local or regional shows that they attend. Some might be waiting to show them to top graders for opinions who might only attend the shows. At the local shows I set up at from 2002-2011, half or more of the tables were manned by dealers without a shop. It's also true that many collectors bring their coins specifically to a show to sell rather than trudge them from one B&M to the next, which is time consuming....plus you get exposure to the regional vest-pocket crowd, as well as those reps for national dealers who routinely scour these shows to bring stuff back to their clientele. Often times it appears that nothing fresh is showing up....while these guys work behind the scenes to vacuum them up.

    One of my local B&M's for 30 yrs rarely showed anything truly neat/fresh to their customers. They chose instead to put good stuff away for the monthly visit by a big time national dealer who would clean them out. They were tickled to get 5 and 6 figure checks figuring they were making a killing. What was really happening was that some of the best coins in the state were being sucked up to never appear again....at 30c to 50c on the dollar. You see, those guys couldn't grade raw coins for beans. It was legalized looting of our state's treasures. At least, when a better informed dealer took over the business about 20 yrs ago, that activity has been largely curtailed.

    If there were no coin dealers, there still could be a "coin show" where collectors bought/sold/traded amongst themselves. You might often this occurring at the entrance to regular coin shops, in the refreshment area, and other places. Ebay in some cases could be considered a coin show for collectors. In more esoteric areas where few dealers exist, it might be collector-collector activity that generates most of the transactions. The numismatic dealer/collector line has continued to weaken over the years. B&M's (and shows) are slowly disappearing.

    Shows are disappearing? I thought everyone complained that there are too many shows ;)

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They've been disappearing around my parts for the past 30 yrs, having peaked in quantity in the 1980's. The coin boom into 1989-1990 was like the last hurrah. The bullion boom of 2004-2011 kept many of them afloat. Since then, I don't know how the remaining ones survive. I've never complained about too many shows. Though I have complained about having the few remaining shows in my area often occurring on the same dates. The shows run by coin clubs have a better chance.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • KellenCoinKellenCoin Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭

    There are no small, knowledgeable dealers with good inventory near me :(

    YN Member of the ANA, ANS, NBS, EAC, C4, MCA, PNNA, CSNS, ILNA, TEC, and more!
    Always buying numismatic literature and sample slabs.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In the Detroit area there was a time when there were 3 or 4 Sunday bourse shows virtually every week. Today there may be 1 or 2 per month. Most of the dealers have other sources of income so they don't depend on show sales for income. Many are just using these shows as a venue to sell off their own collection/accumulation of many, many years. I attended a local show earlier this month. Several of the "dealers" remarked that they were in the process of retiring from the business.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • giorgio11giorgio11 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2017 3:43PM

    The last few years I (a small dealer) did shows, it was always more to buy than to sell. There's no substitute for in-person looking at coins, regardless of all the Internet hoo-hah "coin shows are dying" hand-wringing going on. I quit doing shows when the wife started "helping." At every show. And then complaining about how much work it was and how bad the weather sucked and how unsafe it was. In fairness, some of that is true. I can name some recent regional shows I did where, in retrospect, I should have stayed home. No one cares if a dealer with good inventory makes a profit, until they quit showing up.

    Now I rely still on my website/local word of mouth to pull in the occasional inventory buy.

    Kind regards,

    George

    VDBCoins.com Our Registry Sets Many successful BSTs; pls ask.
  • sparky64sparky64 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've seen a guy with a table and one case that had a really nice early mint set and maybe 4 nicer slabbed coins... and that's it.
    I figured he was there strictly to make buy offers from the public.

    "If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"

    My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,897 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2017 7:26AM

    They go for the cheap hotdogs, day-old donuts, BS sessions with their buddies & to model their latest Hawaiian shirts.

    Seriously, you never know what a local show will bring. Sometimes, it's the same old faces and tired inventory but, once in a while, something really GOOD shows up.

    Last show I was at; I bought a super-nice, semi-key Morgan in an OGH that was very undergraded at MS 63. I got it for a really great price. Not a Walker but I COULDN'T pass it up. A very nice surprise for me.

    I enjoy these shows, myself, so I really try to support them. :)

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,175 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Same thing here in Ontario.

    Dealers sitting on their over priced inventory show after show.

    But it's true that a lot of them just want to get out of the house for the day and doesn't care about what he sells.

    It's like the weekend golfer who doesn't mind the 6 hour round..why?..because he just wants as much time away from the wife as possible.

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Even before Ebay these shows could be tough. Sunday was a bad day to have a show anyway.

    The advantage in small shows is less competition, less table cost, and possibility a big spender might walk in.

    Now its possible most coming in the door have already spent their money on ebay. Because I have an ebay store I don't hit these shows like I used to.

    Yes its a good way to get out of the house but so is Ritz Houston.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Small shows are ....small....shows.
    For me, the absolute worst were coin CLUB shows.
    In Stockton they destroyed a GREAT club show that was attended by major dealers across the country.
    Then... the club... became jealous of the guy who ran it because he charged a reasonable fee to the ...club.

    OH WE CAN'T HAVE THAT

    Sooooo..... the ..club... went from the Holiday Inn in a very easy to access location to a VFW "hall" behind the tracks down a dead end street.

    PLUS the "new" show chairman was the cheapest skate in town.

    I set up there as my first show after becoming a dealer.

    The "security" :D guard (singular) was carrying a .22 SINGLE ACTION revolver.
    I asked if that WAS the "security" and when they told me yes, I brought my own guns to the show.
    Fun, huh? :#

    John McIntosh puts on a few shows here in Sacramento and a few good coins show up. (Mostly his)
    But the ....CLUB.... show is now so far out of town that you're on the way to SF by the time you get there.

    My experience with clubs has been negative.

    (betcha never guessed) :D

  • 2ltdjorn2ltdjorn Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭

    Fishing

    WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would welcome some tired old coin show...not even that in my area...no doubt, some of these guys that set up are there for the camaraderie and hobby talk... I saw a lot of that when I lived in the NorthWest.... I wish I could see it here... Cheers, RickO

  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In San Antonio we have several smaller shows throughout the year. Yes, there are quite a few dealers that trot out the same stuff (scrubbed coins graded as BU, blast white VF's, triple priced coins), but every now and then a true gem of a find comes around. Like the say for the lottery, if you don't play you don't win. I try to make as many as I can just to play for that chance of finding a nice coin.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,022 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One strange thing I have noticed is younger coin shop workers related to the owner who just like to travel to do shows when they don't really have that much worth selling. From a business perspectives that doesn't make sense; re-allocate energy toward profitable areas and decrease wasted time/money.

  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,250 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @2ltdjorn said:
    Fishing

    That was my first thought as well. You occasionally snag a fish even with a bare hook.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "It's so slow, I've considered taking up knitting", one dealer was heard murmuring at a recent show.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2017 11:45AM

    Slow selling shows can be good buying shows. Coin Shop dealers loaded with cash do a lot of buying at shows of quality graded material for retail at the shop while unloading a lot of average stuff at bid that probably walked in the shop providing super buys 4 flip.

    It pays have good cash position at show for walk up sellers where can buy right. I have had many slow selling shows that were fantastic buying shows.

    I remember at one show a few of us were standing around laughing during a really slow day "does anyone really make a decent living at this?"

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • The last time I had a table in Albany was more than 15 years ago. Because of my habit to buy one of everything on the planet I had a diverse inventory of low/medium price collector stuff. I also priced everything to sell and was willing to deal. Since I was the new guy I got a lot of lookers and buyers. Late in the day a couple guys were hanging out talking when one of them nudged the other and nodded towards another dealer and said "What's his problem?" So the other guy says he's mad because nobody is buying his stuff because it's the same old coins at the same prices he brings every month. I have also seen the sellers with maybe 10 or 20 coins in their case!

    I am really interested in any more info on recent shows in Albany. How many tables now? Same number of people but nobody buying much?

    Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.

  • USMarine6USMarine6 Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was at the Nashua NH show this past weekend. Lot of dealer to dealer stuff but not very busy. Normally I would would spend 3 or 4 hours there but left only after an hour and half.

  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My wife and I run 5 small (30-35 tables) shows a year, 4 in Round Rock (one of those is a coin club show) and 1 in Temple, TX. We've been asked about adding more shows throughout the year, but have consistently decided not to; our shows continue to have good attendance and (mostly) happy dealers. Another promoter has begun having shows in Austin, usually within a month of ours, and I'm hearing they don't have as much attendance or business. I think an area can become 'oversaturated' with shows. Instead of being a special occasion people have been saving up for they become routine and that hurts attendance, as people think "I can always go to the one next month". I know some dealers set up simply for dealer-to-dealer business, but even they tell me the extra sales from good attendance is nice also.

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • mirabelamirabela Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Living on the moon in northeastern VT as we do, we only hit a few shows a year, usually combining the trips with visits to family or friends in Mass or southern NH.

    You really never know -- over the years we've been at shows that were just dead, shows where there was a fair amount of interesting material changing hands, and a few that were very hectic with bullion sales when big moves were happening. My favorite times are when the occasional lifelong collector takes a table to sell off extras or even the whole accumulation. It doesn't always happen, but when it has we've bought some great stuff pretty reasonably.

    mirabela
  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I first started setting up it was the smaller shows that I did.
    I loved them.
    A mentor of mine overheard me complaining one day about how slow the show was (I think the local coin club decided to try and schedule a show on the same day as the Super Bowl or some other sporting event of epic proportions) and he walked over to my table and told me something that I never forgot.
    I was just a kid at the time, maybe twenty two, twenty three, and wanted some heavy retail selling, wholesaling, SOMETHING!!!
    Then as now, I love the heat of the battle, the negotiations, the wheeling-dealing, the whole deal. It's a blast.
    He said "Sometimes you have to buy your way out of a show."
    And I paid attention.
    He was so very right.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    a result of the super-Hot market from about 2000-2012 is that there are many "Vest Pocket" type dealers and guys running things out of their homes than previously attended shows as dealers. also, there are more shows and the result is an abundance of choices for a buyer. at the same time, lots and lots of stuff that was stashed away for year is now in the possession of those dealers at those shows. it's the kind of stuff that no one really wants and the dealers are probably stuck with it.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2017 6:18AM

    I enjoy small shows and have learned to go just to have good time and not worry about sales too much as I have an eBay store w 225 plus items.

    When I read the long report about the long line just to unload at the Long Beach show I thought "not for me."

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,022 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know some longstanding coin stores that virtually never set up at coin shows. Maybe one or two a year, but why should they if they have a steady stream of sellers coming into their shops, can do online sales or ship bulk material to well known wholesalers.

  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This year is the Final Studebaker Swap Meet in York Pa. This huge parts / cars affair has went on for 44 years. .....now, it will be no more. Reasons cited, increased expenses for hall rental ($10,000!), overall 'aging' of both Vendors and attendees, same 80+ year old vendors simply unable to hall all the stuff, the Internet, eBay...., lack of new stock appearing, it goes on and on. Actually, the main draw for many recent years is the social get together at one local bigwigs garage, and the annual drawing for winning a nice restored car. Lots of similarities with Numismatics and an aging fan base. When I was a little kid (early 60's) I was hauled to a LOT of "Hamfests" where amateur radio operators gathered, bought/sold and socialized. Pretty much gone now I presume.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I recall the tough times the coin club shows had in the 1980's. As the 80's went on the popularity of sports card and comic book shows grew. This created much more demand for the limited number of affordable halls available. In the 1990s a fair number of halls closed and the sites were sold to the rapidly expanding drug store chains, among others. Many coin clubs ended up being priced out of the show hall market. By the time the sports card and comic book markets cooled off in the 1990s the coin market had crashed, circa 1989-90 and many coin shows just disappeared along with the clubs that sponsored them.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I go for the food. :)

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".

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