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We need passionate collectors to step up to the plate
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS
Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
Perhaps Donald Trump will start a coin collection
There are so many wealthy people in America
Perhaps PCGS can plant some seeds
Or do some recruiting
1
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I think there are plenty of passionate collectors, just not enough of them with enough disposable income.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
The Internet has kept this hobby going. In some ways things are not that bad. Prices for the prime collectable pieces are really high. Believe me I know. I look at prices only 15 or so years ago, and they are much higher.
Moderns have done some damage because their pricing nature. Some start out really high; people rush to buy them; and then they crash. This discourages a lot of fairly new collectors who get burned.
I've been yelled at in the past on this forum for saying that, but it's true. It's best to wait for the dust to settle on the modern issues unless you got in on the ground floor. After the promotions and games are over, quite often you can step in for less money.
A Ken Burns documentary about coins, the history behind them and even the collectors that seek coins would reach more people than anything else I can think of. I suspect that the ANA and other groups combined could make this happen in conjunction with PBS.
There is significant potential in undertaking such a project and the dividends would likely impact various levels, perhaps some more than others, but that is not a justifiable excuse to sit back and do nothing.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Being nice to fellow collectors, sharing information/expertise and helping to educate collectors and finding a LCS/coin club/local coin show to go visit every once in a while are all important as well. We can all do more to promote the hobby...
Many young people get turned off when they visit a coin shop and the "typical" old salty coin shop owner or dealer at a show is a jerk.
I see posts such as this so often. People wanting to get others involved in the hobby, fear of the hobby dying, looking for ways to expand the hobby. First of all, it is a hobby - and for some a business. It seems that those who want to grow the hobby are 'mostly' in the business. Ergo, they want the business to grow to increase profits etc.. Those of us in the hobby, mainly are interested in more coins. Technically, LESS collectors may well increase the availability of coins. Think about that. Not being a dealer, I do not care if more people join the hobby. Yes, it is, for me (and others) a great and interesting hobby.... however, one must have an interest to become part of it..... people collect dolls, beer steins, statuary, stamps and even belly button lint. Why? Because, for some reason, THEY are interested in that particular thing. You cannot force people to have a hobby. Cheers, RickO
Good points. Maybe the rich don't feel like kings, yet.
Ricko hits the mark.
I will add that those who are concerned with the value of their coins (dealers & "collectors") are not really in a hobby. Coins are a niche market, always will be. Those that pursue their passion with focus & knowledge, as a hobby, for the long term (20+ yrs) will likely see respectable gains when their collection is liquidated.
We could sell them garbage, like.......wait..... never mind, we're already doing that.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
We really don't coin collecting for only the wealthy, do we? Much better if you get all ends of the market covered.
I completely agree with Bill Jones, the web has kept our hobby alive and then some. The big discovery I made is that there are quite a few young collectors out there, but they are using different forms of social media instead of forums like this to get out there. I have an Instagram account that was pretty much on idle until I started posting some toned coins with hashtags like #tonedcoins, #pcgs, #morgandollar and others. Before you know it, I started getting followers that were also collectors and a few of them were under 20! Judging by their pictures, they weren't just chasing state quarters either. I also recognized a few forum members from here too!
We don't need someone like Trump to start collecting (though it wouldn't hurt), but for the collecting hobby to recognize that social media is a viable asset. Yes there are plenty of pitfalls out there, but they also existed in the 'good old days' too.
I also echo ShadyDave's posting - there are still far too many codgers at shows that fire off unwanted conspiracy stories at anyone within earshot. I know I don't like hearing them, and the younger generation certainly will just walk away from that nonsense.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
I think, for the most part, the rich and famous prefer to keep their enthusiasm for numismatics low key.
I don't think I've ever disagreed with Bill and I'm not going to start now.
Flippers DESTROY the hobby for new collectors.
Just my eversohumble opinion.
Cheers
Bob
Yep. The less people the better for me. Never plan to sell. All is considered a 100% loss to me. All I want is the best possible price at the time of purchase.
Coins and the reason to collect them has to presented in a way that will resonate with people to create passion. And part of the problem is that coin collecting has the reputation of being the hobby of older rich people. The message needs to reach beyond socio-economics because without changing that perception, who wants to undertake something that seems unaffordable?
Art, design, technology, history and just the general evolution of Civilization can create the connection between people and the need to collect something representative of this which usually is captured on coins. And people will not likely appreciate this unless and until they see and experience it through a mainstream venue.
There is a bright side to to collecting coins- It can be inexpensive which is often overlooked.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
i wonder how many wealthy people out there that we do not know about that already collect coin and the sorts. most like expensive cars or other hobbies. fwiw.
With what Trump has been saying, it may be interesting to get him to think about the counterfeiting situation.
It would be interesting if anything on counterfeiting could be accomplished via Tweeting.
what RickO so eloquently said. I will add that instead of trying to encourage more fresh blood to enter the Hobby more collectors/dealers should come out of the closet and admit that it is a business and investment for them. stop with the BS line that more collectors are needed to keep "us" fresh and get honest --- more money is needed to be infused into the dealer pocket books.
I will agree with the good Mr. Jones on one point, the internet has been a boon to collecting and collectors. the Hobby is and always will be a solitary one, that is its nature. the internet has allowed us to connect without meeting.
I see the word "Serious" used to describe wealthy collectors, but I don't believe anyone must be rich to be either serious or passionate about it.
Despite all the well-stated points here, I have to say that a shortage of new collectors can't help but reshape the hobby in huge ways. Very few young people are willing to sit still to look at ANYTHING anymore, and that includes coins. Very few parents I know are willing to restrict their kids' computer/video time and as long as that's the case, new coin collectors will not be entering the hobby. The result is that high-end, rare coins will continue to do well--and the hobby will be (I should say IS being) left with an enormous quantity of blah, low-grade stuff--the same kind of stuff me and my friends spent our allowances on as kids. What will happen to all of it? You dealers know better than anyone, but my guess is that the vast majority of it will fall into the "near worthless" category--if it hasn't done so already. The question is: is this a good or a bad thing? Neither, probably. It just is what it is. Pure collectors of lower-grade material—and I don't claim to be one of them—should see a boon in what's available, and at rock-bottom prices. The rest of the collecting community will probably continue to split up into very specialized interests based on bullion, elite coins, and the like. I do envy any "pure collectors" out there, though, because this should be a real Golden Age for them.
Please raise your hand if you've never "flipped" a coin (ie a quick turnover whether for profit or a loss). There can't be many. I flipped my first coins back in the mid-1970's and I was a 100% collector at that time. I had no clue I was ruining the hobby.
Knowing his busness acumen and priority to cut waste I bet there's a good chance he might finally be able to kill the penny and possibly the nickel since they both cost more than face to produce and maybe even push a dollar coin while getting rid of the paper note.
What a weird thread.
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STEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭
6:47AM in U.S. Coin Forum
IF DT has a coin collection, I'd like to see it. Imagining what DTs' coin collection may or not be, whether it exists or not, who knows what you are thinking.
No Kidding
Really? PCGS can plant some seeds?
Or do some recruiting
For what?
Crazy
Killing the penny, nickel and paper buck would all be interesting. Certainly other countries like the UK, Canada, and Australia have been able to move lower denominations from bills to coins and also eliminate some of their smaller coins entirely (pennies in Canada and Australia).
If President-elect Trump commenced a coin collection the grading system would have to be changed. No more number grades. Only adjectives. For high end coins we'd now have Unbelievable, Fantastic, Amazing, Tremendous, Terrific, Great, and Classy to cover MS/PF 70 to 64. On the very low end, Zero, Total Loser, Bad, etc. Bye Bye Sheldon. If just might work....similar to the old unc, choice, gem, superb unc standards of the mid-1970's.
I think the time might be ripe for removing presidents from the coins.
Time for really nice renditions of Liberty, maybe some of the classic designs that never made it or only made it to pattern coins.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I can understand dolls, beer steins stamps -- but can you explain to me Beanie Babies??
Be sure to look up Andy Barr, House Representative for Kentucky. Here's some info on his bill, H.R.2535 - American Liberty Coinage and Deficit Reduction Act of 2013 to add Liberty to circulating coins. Would need to get it re-introduced and some other legislators behind it but the core idea is there.
If you can understand 16th century Dutch tulips, then Beanie Babies aren't much different. There's still a following for BB's if only because they were a rage more than 20 years ago, and now those kids that received them are at the age to remember and possibly relive those days in their collecting dreams. Can you explain to me black slabs and doily labels when the coins inside them are often irrelevant vs. the value of the packaging?
thefiscaltimes.com/Media/Slideshow/2015/02/27/15-Most-Valuable-Beanie-Babies
Who else here collects beer steins? I mean early vintage
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I have a few ...but they are not as a hobby, they have special meaning to me...such as my RAF mug that I got at the RAF club in Scotland on Christmas Eve when I was in the Navy..... and a few others.
Cheers, RickO
im 31, and in my opinion, what would make this hobby greater for me. would be a single site where everyone could post a registry of all their coins, just for show or fishing for trades, and i could have the option to offer trades for coins or money. or just offer money to a fellow collector if he were willing to sell. a site where your not paying much of a premium or searching through endless internet sites trying to find a coin you like that may be snatched up in a day or too if your not quick enough. i spend too much time looking through dealer pages , even when I'm just wanting to trade, and not get the short stick. i go months without seeing coins that interest me, i wish i could see them every day. interest increases demand
What a marvelous idea, dude! This would surely explode the hobby into the World, esp. in America. If Burns ever did look into this hobby and write a script, he better give you some residuals!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.**Please raise your hand if you've never "flipped" a coin **
flipping doesn't really means selling a coin. what it alludes to is the purchase of Mint Products, etc. with the intent of immediately selling at an increased price. I guess most dealers are flippers, but that is what their business is.
Big Nixon face and gutteral voice "I AM NOT A FLIPPER."......
Cheers, RickO
Despite the best attempts of the hobby to drive away newbies there are still millions of them. Unless we actually go out and find them to try to chase them off there will still be millions in a few years.
Most people in the hobby can't see it because they don't watch the modern markets but these appear to have passed a tipping point where increasing demand is outstripping decreasing supply. It used to be pretty easy to buy 1000 1969 mint sets and it would be almost impossible to sell them. Now it's becoming the other way round.
Prices are relatively unaffected so far but the fact is nothing can affect this equation and prices result from it. Increasing prices can have the effect of decreasing supply as holders await higher prices, and increasing demand because buyers hurry to secure coins for their collections before prices go higher. Since the potential demand is so much higher than total supply this is a prescription for vastly higher prices.
The curious thing is nobody seems to be seeing it yet. But I'm selling into the strength.
When the newbies find the chat boards and mainstream they may have enough paper profits to just ignore the put downs.
I would suggest red Lincoln Cents. He would like those. And he could really impress his friends.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I don't really want the hobby to explode in popularity. That would make everything I want more expensive. I just want some reassurance that it will still be there in 20-50 years when it's sale time. I don't want to reap a huge windfall, but I also don't want to take a huge bath either.
I think we're just a little inwardly nervous that what happened to stamps could happen here. The thought dampens my enthusiasm and influences my self-imposed limit of my net worth that I'm willing to put into coins. All of that said, I'm actually rather bullish about the hobby and I see real future potential.
Scholastic instruction in schools across the country could re-invigorate the hobby. People with insight saw that with chess back in the late 70s and sparked scholastic programs which has kept the hobby growing.
I've given my Granddaughter, and Nephew some stuff through the years. I don't get why people always write they want to coax kids into collecting. Introduce it fine. But it seems some want to make it like some religious people do with the church and feel a need to have them join.
I totally agree that a Ken Burns documentary about coin collecting could greatly enhance the hobby
Presently the market for early copper coins is nothing like it was when Ted Naftzger was collecting. No one has replaced him, opportunity knocks !
Donald Trumps close relative assembled one of the finest date collections ever assembled.
Mr. 1796 assembled the finest collection of 1796 coins ever .
The millennials do not collect coins the way us dinosaurs did, passionate collectors do not doctor coins. They want original unaltered coins.
Gene Gardner is gone. He was a consummate gentleman who loved his coins
The Pogue collection was the finest collection of early coinage ever assembled
And has now been broken up.
The time span of a present collector is nowhere as long as it was 50 or 100 years ago
I will say unequivocally that the only dealer who concentrates on developing new
Passionate collectors is Legends Laura Sperber. She is the most passionate coin weenie in the business. We need others !
Stewart
It's a good point that some of the major collectors are gone from the market. It will be interesting to see what major collectors and collections are formed in the future.
everyone finds their niche. some like perfect coins. i like old coins , ancients coins , crude coins, hammered coins , coins that aren't perfect in how they are made but attractive from how they were kept. coins with history , ones that bring back to the times of pirates, salam witch trials, ancient greece. and medieval times. i think the worse thing for the hobby was taking out the silver and most of the copper. coins today just show how inflated money has become.
I'm not sure how much I really believe this, but I'll share the thoughts anyway.
Back in the day, tens of thousands of serious collectors each owned hundreds and thousands of coins. And they were proud of their coins, often because they thought the coins were rarer and nicer than they actually were. These collectors also thought that they had purchased many incredible bargains over the years, and they were rarely forced to confront reality until it was time to sell. Everyone felt like a genius, and everyone kept buying.
Today, the market is so transparent that most coins have been revealed to be not so rare and not so nice. And even if you can find the great coins, there are very, very few bargains to be had. My concern is twofold. First, even though the hobby is safer than it used to be, it's not as much fun. And second, now that most coins have been determined to be of less than "investment quality", there aren't enough really good coins to satisfy the existing population of collectors. You might think that a shortage of coins would simply bring higher prices. But it could also drive enough collectors out of the hobby to send the market lower.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Regarding transparency and information on coins, there are still areas which could use much more documentation like exonumia.
I will say unequivocally that the only dealer who concentrates on developing new
Passionate collectors is Legends Laura Sperber. She is the most passionate coin weenie in the business. We need others !
Hmmmmm.....remind me how to spell hyperbole......
Instead of + we'd have ms66yuge!
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
You are comparing passion to wealth.
Those are different things.
Burns has done Jazz, Baseball, the Civil War among others... It may be that he would not want to do it, but it could be undertaken by someone else. I suspect Burns would have an interest if approach by the right people with the commitment that resources would be available through the ANA, the Smithsonian, the US mint, the mint museums at the New Orleans and Carson City mints. The type of resources that could and should be available would making creating this documentary a tremendous opportunity for someone. Burns would likely be the best choice but certainly not the only choice. The goal would be to have a 4-6 part series (whatever would be reasonably needed) aired on PBS, with the series eventually being available on disc.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
The perception of collecting coins needs to change. And while that can be done, that change needs to start somewhere.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
.> @coinkat said:
Ken Burns.
Pics of major archive coins.
Video scanning relevant US Mint documents while a voice reads the significant notation.
Look at his "Civil War". Same thing. Repeat, rinse.